Processors

[iamunique4]

Hello AMD Community,

I'm reaching out to share an intriguing observation with my shiny, new Ryzen 9 7950X setup and to seek your insights or similar experiences.

I've noticed that the PPT, TDC, and EDC values reported by Ryzen Master for my system are significantly lower than AMD's official default values, even when set to "Auto" in my MSI motherboard's UEFI BIOS. Specifically, I'm seeing 142W/85A/170A, whereas I was expecting something closer to the 230W/160A/225A mark as per AMD specs.

What's even more surprising is that manually setting the TDP to 170W in the BIOS does increase these values but still doesn't bring them up to what I anticipated. In Ryzen Master, these figures are shown as the maximum I can achieve, and I'm unable to configure a profile to extend beyond these limits.

What I checked:

• UEFI / BIOS settings (both auto and 170W)
• MSI Center (set to "performance")
• Windows power settings set to "Max performance"
• Ryzen Master (this is where I see the problem, can't bump up)

Hardware:

• Motherboard MSI PRO B650M-P
• BIOS 7E27v14 / 2023-12-08
• Lexar's AORUS 6400Mhz CL32 RAM (EXPO)

I've already reached out to MSI for support, but I'm eager to hear from this knowledgeable community. Any advice, insights, or shared experiences would be greatly appreciated as I navigate this issue.

Thank you all in advance for your help and support!

[johnnyenglish · Accepted solution]

Hi, the first thing I noticed is, you have a bad pair of CPU and Board. This may not be the culprit of your situation but its very indicative to me in my experience. Are you able to reach its maximum advertised boost clocks?

About the board and why is it a bad pair, the MSI PRO B650M-P VRM design may not be up to par to keep the 7950X happy.

Another thing I noticed right away, it only has a single EPS connector



while most mid range boards has 2 with the following configuration:

And higher end have 2x8

What can you do:

Check carefully if you don't have any ECO MODE on and PBO is enabled (on BIOS)

Clear CMOS/Do a factory defaults to clear out issues if the above didn't help

Update your BIOS to the latest, after that clear CMOS (its a suggested practice from board vendors)

Try reseating the CPU, check if the land pin grid array does not have any bent pin, and be VERY carefull while doing this!

If no such luck, share more information about your PC so the community may help you out too.

[iamunique4]

Thank you for your insights, especially regarding the pairing of the Ryzen 9 7950X with the MSI PRO B650M-P motherboard. I appreciate your perspective on the potential limitations due to the VRM design and the single EPS connector. It's an interesting point, especially since the motherboard's spec sheet explicitly states support for "AMD Ryzen™ 8000/ 7000 Series Desktop Processors" without any exceptions. This inclusion led me to believe that the pairing would be fully compatible and capable of harnessing the processor's power efficiently.

Indeed, it would be quite disappointing if this were the underlying reason for not achieving the expected performance levels, particularly when the product documentation suggests compatibility. On a positive note, I have observed the CPU reaching the high 5 GHz region on single-core workloads, peaking around ~5.6 GHz, which indicates that under certain conditions, the system can tap into the CPU's high-performance capabilities.

[joshbuttler]

Thank you Johny for these insightful information

[johnnyenglish]

Thank You

I've spent a lot searching so I could get the nicest board for my 7950X.

Ended up with the RoG X670E A, super solid VRM and lets me tweak a lot on the CPU side.

Boosting capabilities of the CPU are also determined by the VRM, this was in the AMD spec sheet at the time of 5000 launch. In result I'm getting a steady 5.8Ghz.

I also use Curve Optimizer and Offset Undervolt to have more temperature headroom.

Good Luck with your build

[iamunique4]

Hey there,

I wanted to come back and extend a huge thank you for pinpointing the core issue with my Ryzen 9 7950X setup. Your insights regarding the mismatch between the CPU and the MSI PRO B650M-P motherboard, especially about the VRM design and the single EPS connector, were incredibly accurate.

Following your advice led to a significant performance improvement after I switched to a motherboard (again MSI...  X670E Tomahawk simply because there were direct comments at my local retailer that it works fine) with adequate power delivery capabilities. It's eye-opening how much of a difference the right board makes, and your guidance was instrumental in this discovery.

This experience has also opened my eyes to the gaps in manufacturers' documentation. It's disappointing to see critical compatibility and performance considerations not clearly outlined, leading to such predicaments for consumers. Your expertise helped bridge this gap, shedding light on the nuances that aren't always apparent from official specs.

Your contribution is a testament to the value of community knowledge and support. I'm sincerely grateful for the time you took to share your understanding, which not only resolved my issue but also educated me and likely others facing similar challenges.

Massive kudos to you for your keen observations and for making such a positive impact. The manufacturers could learn a thing or two about clarity and transparency from folks like you in the community.

[misterj]

iamunique4, the limits are set my the MB and you should be able to change them with Ryzen Master (RM). Here is a screenshot of my old 3970X setting them in RM. Please post an equivalent screenshot. Thanks and enjoy, John.

[iamunique4]

Sure thing, this is how it looks in RyzenMaster:

[misterj]

Thanks, iamunique4. How did you get the RM images to look so good? Here is the one I forgot: My Limits.  My MB set really high limits because of higher VRM current capability, maximum PPT is 1200 Watts! Your MB may not be up to your work load. thanks and enjoy, John.

[FunkZ]

The limits shown in your RM screenshot indicate it may be set to 105W TDP ECO mode per this community thread.

The 170W TDP mode in your BIOS doesn't seem to be working. Under the AMD Overclocking section in Advanced there should be a submenu for PBO that allows you to set the limits to manual. You should then be able to set PPT, TDC and EDC in the BIOS.

Alternately you can leave the BIOS setting at manual and then you should be able to select a profile in RM, click in the bottom right corner "Copy Current" and then adjust the limits within Ryzen Master.

[iamunique4]

Thanks for the tips about TDP and PBO settings. I've tried everything in the BIOS, including manual adjustments in the AMD Overclocking section and tweaking within Ryzen Master. Strangely, only the 65W TDP mode actually sticks to its limits as you'd expect. Any higher settings, like the 170W TDP, just don't deliver the promised power.

Starting to think those who warned this motherboard might not fully support the 7950X were onto something. It's a bummer, especially since there was no heads-up about this in the specs. Looks like the board just can't handle the CPU's needs for more juice.

[misterj]

iamunique4, please do a Clear CMOS, rerun and post the screenshots. Thanks, John.

[elstaci]

Just for your FYI found this link from a old thread at MSI Forum about the VRM wattage on the MSI PRO B650M-A board. The link shows all the various Manufacturer's OEM B650 boards and tested each VRM with a 7950X processor including various Cinebench and RAM Settings:  https://www.techspot.com/review/2633-amd-b650-motherboards/

First here are the VRM thermal results and we have quite a bit to go over. The results selected in red are a fail or technically a fail. The Asrock Riptide, for example, comes out of the box with a 75c thermal limit for the CPU, which is effectively a power limit, so although we've included this result it's technically not valid as the 7950X was being power limited.

The good news is you can quickly remove this limit in the BIOS, allowing the 7950X to hit the standard TjMax of 95c and when doing so the Riptide VRM hit 76c, which is a very acceptable result, so we have no idea what Asrock is power limiting this board out of the box, as they absolutely don't need to be.

The Asus Prime II which we've dubbed the 'benchmark edition' is proving to be just that with heavy power limits out of the box to ensure the board doesn't hit 100c like the original version, which peaked at 104c. The Prime B650M-A WiFi and Prime B650-Plus technically passed our stress test as the CPU didn't throttle, but the rear side of the PCB did exceed 100c under optimal conditions, meaning the actual VRM components were at least 10c hotter.

So technically they work, but over 100c we deem a failure, as you wouldn't want to run the components at such high temperatures for extended periods of time. In any case, the results were bad, with similar priced boards running below 80c.

The Asrock B650 Pro RS produced the best result, peaking at just 58c, which is not surprising given it packs fourteen 60A powerstages. We're not looking for the absolute best result, or even the best results, rather we're just interested in acceptable results, so anything under 80c is manageable and will work well under basically all conditions.

Almost all of the B650 boards tested tick that box, including the cheapest model, the Gigabyte B650M DS3H. The CPU frequency dipped a little on the DS3H, but we're talking about a 2% reduction when compared to the highest clocked models.

Found this Reddit thread concerning MSI TDP various ratings in BIOS for its B650 BIOS Settings. Seems like 170 Watt TDP is the maximum for all B650 MSI Motherboards according to the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/y13m3t/a_quick_look_at_msi_b650_bios_features_pbo/

According to your TDP specs that you posted, 142W/85A/170A,  it seems like your BIOS is set at 105 Watt TDP - 142/110/170A. The only difference is your TDC is 85 while it should be 110 according to the above chart,

[iamunique4]

Finding this whole situation pretty baffling. Like I mentioned, it's becoming clear that this motherboard might not have what it takes to power the CPU properly, which is a huge letdown. The spec sheets are silent on this, which isn't helpful. I'm all for understanding that not every board can match every CPU, but what bugs me is:

1. MSI's silence on explicitly stating which CPUs match up with their boards.
2. The ghost town that is MSI support – it's been over a week with no word back.
3. AMD's support feels like I'm talking to a bot: 'Reset BIOS, don't overclock, turn off ECO mode...'

[johnnyenglish]

I'm sorry to hear that, I mean... its like I said, it could be solvable and not the culprit, still... I feel that the board could only do its job partially. But its not something I would pair with a top notch 7950X.

Try to reflash the BIOS and do a CMOS clear one last time.

One more thing, have you tried turning PBO to completely  disabled? It normally comes set to auto.

PBO is very demanding on the VRM, in fact its one of the requiring headroom for boosting.