General Discussions

[dp135]

If one owns a Intel 5930K system as their primary machine ( I won the parts in a 2014 giveaway) and wants to build a Ryzen machine now to be the primary, what would be the recommended CPU to exceed performance?

I am not a gamer but want a high end machine that is fast and will future proof things for a bit. I keep things a long time.

I do more creator type things and just want a really fast machine for all PC tasks. I was looking at a 3950X but keep being told it is overkill and I should get a 3900X. I am not sure what to think as I have never used AMD and there is 6 years between my machine and current offerings. I knew I did not need anything like a threadripper but am confused on other chips.

I am happy with the current machine but am a tech lover and just want to build something new and make this machine my secondary. I want to avoid buyers remorse.

I was looking at the Gigabyte X570 Master.

Current:
Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 32GB (4x8GB)
Gigabyte X99-SOC Force motherboard
EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti Classified Reference Edition graphics card
EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 G2 power supply
Intel Corei7 5930K processor
Thermaltake Core V71
Noctua cooler that replaced a failed AIO.

Various SSDs and backup 7200RPM HDDs

I appreciate any advice you can offer.

Thank you
Dorothy

[bearcat22]

Overclock that 5930K! Looks like 4.5 GHz is not hard to achieve. But even 4.2 GHz is good. The base speed of the 3900X is 3.8 GHz. You'll have to get another AIO cooler. If you've never done much overclocking and your a tech lover you might enjoy it. LOTS of teaching info on the web.

[dp135]

Hi and thank you bearcat22. I have OC'd through the years, but even at stock, this has been a peppy machine for me. But if you were to build a new machine on the Ryzen platform, what would you choose to exceed performance?
I plan to keep this. I just want to do a whole new build and am unfamiliar with Ryzen and am wondering what at stock CPU would be the most reasonable choice. 

[black_zion]

Passmark is a good place to start for a quick comparison. Even the lower tier Ryzen 3000 series processors, such as the 3600X, vastly exceed the performance of the 5930K, while consuming much less power, which is to be expected given they're 5 years newer. Most of the reputable review sites peg the 3700X as the sweet spot, as it consumes quite a bit less power than the 3800X while sacrificing only a couple of percentages of performance, whereas on a pure cost/performance comparison, the 3600X is the sweet spot. The 3950X is a beast of a processor, but unless you're a professional content creator it is overkill, and it only features 16 cores against the 3900X's 12, and you pay a hefty premium for those cores.

There is another thing to consider, and that is the Ryzen 4000 series which, according to Lisa Su, with be as revolutionary in performance improvement in Zen so far. Performance details and release date are as of yet unconfirmed other than sometime this year, and it's also not clear on if they will continue to use Socket AM4 or require a new socket as motherboard BIOS chips are already starting to get so full they're having to eliminate compatibility.

Two thing's are for sure though, a current Ryzen 3900X based system will provide you with twice the performance of what you have now, if not more, and a 3600X system will give you 50% more performance, if not more.

[bearcat22]

Yea, at stock speeds the 3900X is definitely better. But if he oc'd his 5930K to 4.5 GHz there would be less of a different's. It might even swing the other way. Especially if the programs he uses don't utilities 12 cores. Plus he wouldn't have to buy a new mainboard and RAM. But I understand where he's coming from if he wants new stuff.  

[black_zion]

If you take the 5930K and increase its speed from 3.5ghz to 4.5ghz, a 26.8% increase in frequency, and increase its scores assuming a best case 100% linear translation of clock speed and performance, then:

	5930K (Base)	5930K (4.5 GHz)	Ryzen 3600X	3600X Advantage (Marks)	3600X Advantage (Percentage)
CPU Mark	13657	17480.96	20493	3012.04	17.23%
Single Thread	2104	2693.12	2911	217.88	8.09%

I compare it to the 3600X as it is a 6 core part with SMT, same as the 5930K, and a 4.5ghz 5930K is close to the 4.4ghz Turbo speed of the 3600X.

Of course like I said this is a quick comparison, and does not take into account program specific improvements due to additional instruction sets, code optimization, and, Intel Spectre and Meltdown performance impacts, which increase greatly in generations before the 8000 series, although given that platform's age BIOS mitigations are likely not present, leaving only Windows/Linux mitigations, as well as improvements due to memory speed and bandwidth, something content creation programs lean on heavily, as well as NVMe drive support, another thing which content creation programs lean on.

[pokester]

I went with a 3600 not the X variant last August. However right now the 3600x is even more discounted so I agree it is a great chip to buy for gaming. For most gamers going to an 8 core vs the price difference likely is not worth it. Unless of course you are pairing it with a top of the line GPU. 

I know when back when I bought my 3600 it compared to a i7- 7700k pretty evenly. 

No doubt that getting a newer processor would yield the best results for the OP but trying and OC is never a bad idea to see if it does the trick for a while. Sometimes it doesn't take but 5-10 fps to change the perception of sluggishness in a game. 

[pokester]

Oh meant to add this link. The OP can use it to compare performance for themselves. 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-5930K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600X/2578vs4041 

[black_zion]

Not a good idea to use Userbenchmark anymore after they changed their algorithm. Remember the fiasco last year?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/userbenchmark-benchmark-change-criticism-amd-intel,40032.html?region-switch=1583527388

[pokester]

Darn can't anything be honest anymore! Well it's probably still better than my best guess. LOL 

[black_zion]

Thing about modern processors though with their intelligent automatic turbos, from both AMD and Intel, you really have to look at the benchmarks more closely than you used to, as manual overclocking can reduce performance. The 3700X and 3800X are good examples of this, with the 3700X able to match the 3800X in performance, but using less power to do so.

And yea, it's the downside with the uPGA AMD insists on continuing to use vs the LGA of Intel, have to make sure to run your computer for a few minutes to soften the TIM else you risk destruction...

[dp135]

Thanks. The machine had just been turned off but I guess that was not enough. I just cannot comprehend how they think this is ok.

I may just get a less expensive mb

Than the aurous master and new RAM

As my trident apparently will not do xmp.

Should be 3600 running in the 2000s. So much for straying from the QVL for popular RAM. THE BIOS loads the profile but it does not change the speed.

I suppose I should be grateful that it works at all. My worry is is there damage that I am not seeing.

[dp135]

Holy smokes - I went away for a day and came back fresh.

I finally got my RAM to run at its 3600 with XMP. Reset BIOS -- prayed. I also was having this bizarro situation with Chrome font rendering like a printer out of ink. Edge was fine - seemed a Chrome only issue. Google pointed to a recent issues with windows update and suggested looking at clear type and somehow that worked. I chose a lower end GPU as I am not a gamer ( EVGA 2060 KO ) and at first thought that was the issue but it seems fine.

My EVGA 360 CLC sounded like a jet airplane no matter what I seemed to do. That actually was the most distressing ( well second only to almost destroying the CPU.) You would think I had never built a PC. It has been a clinic of Murphy's law ;=) 

I was inches away in my mind of going Noctua like I have on my other machine but finally the gigabyte software of all things, calibrated and got the fans quiet. I actually liked the look of the stock cooler ironically but it was noisy so I decided to not go there.This goes down in my personal history as the worst build ever ;=) But now I keep hearing this awful droning. It may be the pump, not sure. I think I am going to have to return that and try something else..

I intensely dislike the case I settled on ( Cooler Master NR600 ) as it is cramped for me and cheap as I could not get the Lian Li I wanted. I may swap this whole thing to a new case when the what I want hits the shelves.

I also dislike the PSU ( Corsair RMX850 ) as the ends of the cables are brutally stiff and it was really tough bending to plug in to MB. I think extenders might be a good solution.

Thank you all for listening to me whine!

On the upside, I probably will keep what I have unless things go south on me as it is a peppy machine. I need to get away from the upset and start enjoying the machine.

It is faster for sure, but I still love my 5930K and can see it has many happy years ahead of it yet alongside its new Ryzen buddy.

[hardcoregames_]

You will like the Ryzen setup, it is much more power efficient and the performance is excellent.

The Corsair RM850X is not a bad PSU. I have an HX1000i which is more expensive but the RN850X is still respectable.

The Corsair cables are stiff because they are solid core copper wires. The connectors are not a problem with the AMD based and Intel based rigs I have in the studio.

[dp135]

I'm trying to love it. It is fast. I'm using a Corsair PCIE 4 ssd as there was 10.00 difference from the Samsung I was going to get. 

I pulled the EVGA AIO - it was just intolerable. Its silence was very brief. I put back the wraith just so I can run the machine. Tomorrow I will return the AIO and will have to choose another or go air. I set a fan curve - Then I just locked a % in the software. I am just mystified as to why the fans are reving up as they are. I can understand being loud but the ramping even at idle is just distracting and unpleasant. I am the first to admit I am not very knowledgeable about fan curves etc. I have tried to read up so much before doing this and am frustrated at how much hassle it has been.

I know the corsair has a good rep -  I chose after reviews. I've had seasonic and EVGA in the past or Antec back in the days when a PSU came with the case ;=)
I just found it really hard to work with in tight spots. Partially the case I think too. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that - makes me feel better ;=)

I saw someone post online that enabling XMP makes fans louder - well I'm stuck if that is the case as I am not running my 3600 at 2133 or whatever it wants.

I'm not giving up! Thanks again.

[hardcoregames_]

If you fans are revving up, make sure you have one or more front intake fans and readr/top exhaust fans to create a strong air flow 

[pokester]

No doubt about what you say when it comes to over clocking. A max overclock does not mean better performance. Usually you get better performance a stability a couple steps back with modern processors. That is why it is so important when OC'ing not to just check stability but the actual repeatable benchmark results. The is very true with GPU's also. What else is interesting is how much the memory speed vs the clock speed will change numbers too. Faster does not always result in better results on the memory either. 

[black_zion]

It's more to do with the way the turbos are per core these days, so if all cores are capable of, say, 4.1ghz, but 4 cores are capable of 4.3ghz and 4 cores only of 4.1ghz, then that's not an unsubstantial performance loss by using manual OCing instead of letting the Turbo and PBO do their jobs.

As for memory, I'd stick with G.Skill Flare or what's on the QVL list. Starting with the Ryzen 3000 series RAM speed is decoupled from the Infinity Fabric, so there's no huge benefit to using faster RAM like there is with Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series, and 4x RAM modules are recommended, with DDR4-3200 with a CL two less than DDR4-3600 putting in identical performance figures. TomsHardware did a good review of it.

[hardcoregames_]

My G.skill DDR4-3200 is 16-18-18-39 which is not bad for the clock speeds

I have 4x8GB which is adequate for the time being. I can jump to 4x16GB if needed or even 4x32GB but I feel that is overkill.

[pokester]

Thanks, I had seen a couple performance charts on the different speed ram. In fact just looked at one yesterday. None of those though illustrated the difference in 2 vs 4 sticks. Thanks!

[black_zion]

I hadn't thought about it either, given how previous AMD platforms disliked having more than two memory modules, but 3% is about 2FPS at 60, not THAT large of a difference. Even now with DDR4 prices down a bit, that extra $100+ could be put to much better use, such as on a stronger GPU, and the in productivity tests, the differences are negligible, ironically where performance gains should be the largest given they are memory intensive, and those types of computers will often have fully populated memory slots.

[bearcat22]

Fewer dimms have always been better for overclocking on both platforms. But to be honest I've never seen any significant improvement in games by oc'ing the RAM. I usually buy the highest speed the mainboard manufacturers recommends. It's easier to downclock RAM if your having stability problems than overclock.

[dp135]

Thank you very much black_zion. That was the type of information I needed with some welcomed analysis. I had seen a few CPU comparisons but was not able to look at the options so easily. I knew everyone seemed on paper to say many Ryzen / current CPUs would be better, but which one was my roadblock. What would be much faster but not ridiculous overkill even on a system that I would keep for years.

I know I do not want to get less than a 3900X - right now there is a 250.00 difference between that and the 3950X near me and compelling points to be made for the 3900x. I keep my systems for years so I do not want to cheap out on one level only to sit 3 yrs from now saying I should have gotten X or waited for Y.

I have gone through a lot of analysis on which MB/CPU etc Watched more VRM videos on X570 MBs than I thought I ever would ..lol. I just find this stuff fascinating. In the end I look for a solid board with features I care about.

So now armed with more information I will have to decide - Buy now, wait till the next crop comes out. So many choices - one gets to analysis paralysis at a point ;=) Truth be told, I want to know more about the 4000s and since there is no emergency to build I may take more time.

Thank you to you both again.

Dorothy

[dp135]

Today I saw the Ryzen 3900x at Microcenter for 399.00, so I got that with the Gigabyte Aorus Master x 570 board.
The 300.00 difference between that and the 3950x at Microcenter sealed it for me and I put that money towards other components. Now to put it all together ;=)

[hardcoregames_]

nice to see you have settled on the hardware you want

I have a 65W R5 3600 which also beats the i7 5930K. The i7 5930K uses more power which is a big disadvantage today. My R5 3600 is 6 cores 12 threads which is fine for gaming.

[dp135]

Thank you. 

[bearcat22]

The R5 3600 is a year old CPU. The 5930K is 6 years old. Comparing the two speaks to how good the 5930K was.

[hardcoregames_]

bearcat22 wrote:

The R5 3600 is a year old CPU. The 5930K is 6 years old. Comparing the two speaks to how good the 5930K was.

I only compared the advantages of my CPU, the OP knows his CPU is fossilizing

[black_zion]

Well, comparing the two speaks to how poor AMD Bulldozer architecture was due both to poor design choices and lack of developer adoption, and it also shows how, with lack of competition, Intel was willing to sit back and do nothing while charging high prices year after year for processors which aren't that different. The 8 year old i7-3970X is still only marginally better (single thread) than a modern 9600K, and how the 5930K itself is basically equal to the two year older 3970X. Intel could have been pushing efficiency, core count, and performance for the better part of a decade unchallenged, but they didn't, and reaped tens of billions in easy profits. Thankfully Ryzen lived up to the hype and kick-started the CPU war again...

[hardcoregames_]

I recall my R5 2400G was way up on the CPU charts before more Ryzen users stepped up and displaced me from the top of the pile.

My R5 3600 does not rank that high mostly as there are so many R9 users that it had no chance. I bought the CPU for a different reason.

[bearcat22]

I'd be curious to see how her system with a RTX 2080 Ti compares to a modern system with an Intel or AMD CPU running at the same clocks as her 5930K and the same GPU playing a game like Metro Exodus. 

[dp135]

Well this build has been a real nightmare and disappointment. The case and AIO I got were not not to my liking so I used the stock cooler to get up and running and once everything was installed I planned to swap to the AIO and see if I could get fan noise down.

So I go to remove the stock cooler and it rips the entire CPU right out of the locked down socket when I lift it. I almost had a heart attack.They ought to call their paste thermal cement. I have never seen anything like it.Upon googling it seems it has happened to others.

Anyway I then failed to post and upon inspection had bent pins. After much playing around with a needle as I figured I had nothing to lose, I got it to straighten out and it dropped into the socket and posted miraculously.Nobody was more surprised than me.

System is running warm and windows is hanging too much to my liking. It's certainly not the dramatic build I expected.
Cinebench was way faster etc but the overall "feel" is that my trusty 5930K is still pretty amazing.

So I am not sure what I am going to do at this point. I'm exhausted after getting far too little sleep and need to regroup and decide if I am going to go forward or call it a day and return everything but the CPU and move on.

[bearcat22]

Yea, sleep on it. Working on a unfamiliar system is tiring and frustrating.

[dp135]

Well update since I last came - I returned the whole thing and they took back the CPU as well ( I told them the truth of what happened - Microcenter has been great by me). I took a break and then decided to try a new case and rebuild  this time I chose a 3950X. I'm quite happy overall. It is very fast, however, I still have loads of respect for my 5930K that is now my secondary PC. It replaced a dinosaur Core 2 Duo era machine