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cgorange
Adept II

2990WX Question about PPT and TDC

Hello, 

Here is a screenshot of my Ryzen Master as I'm cpu rendering.  I have a question about PPT and TDC.  I know that if I up PPT from 250w to higher it will make my cpu GHz higher. But I was wondering what is causing it to use 100% if I had a motherboard with better VRM would that make it better? 

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Thanks

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18 Replies
misterj
Exemplar

cgorange, you can drag-n-drop images into your reply - no external link needed.  Please go to the AMD Ryzen Master  (RM) Download site and DL QRG (Quick Reference Guide).  It does a good job of explaining this.  The ? on the RM screen has a brief definition - mouse over to see.  The almost 100% is because of RM and/or BIOS settings.  On that screen select PBO and you can change PPT and TDC.  You may need to use BIOS settings to allow RM to go higher.  I ran PPT to 400 Watts to get Indigo to really move.  Enjoy, John.

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Thanks for that explanation.  I’ve read the QuickStart guide but I’m trying to get a greater understanding of it. PPT for example.  It says limit of 500w does that mean 500w is the limit that the motherboard can handle? Or the cpu?  Is it dangerous setting it close to that limit? 

Is it not worth me raising it because I’m already at the max temp limit for the cpu so if I raise the PPT wont it just throttle down the cpu since I’m already at the max temp?  ( I think it starts to throttle down at 68)

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cgorange, throttling begins at 68C and any of PPT, TDC or EDC getting to 100%.  Ryzen Master has a problem with xxxxWX processors with respect to EDC (shows --%).  Someday, I hope, AMD will correct this and we can see what is really going on.  In your screenshot, you see PPT at 98% of 250 Watts, limit 700 Watts.  That tells me that Total Package (Socket) power is currently 245 Watts, the RM limit is 250 Watts, but the BIOS limit is 700 Watts.  The 700 may be able to be raised - according to your MB BIOS.  The RM limit (250) can be changed up or down with PBO or Manual enabled.  It is OK to experiment as long as you do not click Apply.  I cannot predict (I do not work for or speak for AMD) what is dangerous, but unless you disable PROCHOT, I suspect the processor will protect itself with throttling.  Again, I have no authority and you should read the many warnings offered by RM.  Enjoy, John.

EDIT: You have high temperatures for such low power.  What CPU cooler do you have?  If you want to run faster you may need a better one.

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cgorange
Adept II

Yeah, I figure I dont have room to up the PPT or TDC since my temps are already at max.  I linked the cooler my other thread and the thread about cooling and the 2990WX. But I have a NZXT Kraken x52 which in hindsight is probably a poor choice for a cooler for this cpu.  I probably made a few poor choices when I built this computer.

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I asked about the VRM because I read how some motherboards have better VRM and power circuits I guess which allow you to have better overclock it so I was wondering if the TDP and TDC limits were coming from my motherboard. 

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cgorange, this is a learning process and we all make poor choices along the way.  Sometimes they cost us some gold.

Yes, different MBs have more in their VRMs than others.  You are correct, the limits are coming from the MB.  I bought the MSI MEG X399 Creation because of its VRM design.  This is reflected in the BIOS for the limits on PPT, TDC and EDC.  They are set by the MB engineers and will differ according to the design.  The BIOS limits should have been selected to allow proper use of the MB HW.  Enjoy, John.

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Yeah.  I've learned a lot from building this computer and researching, watching videos and from you and other people on this forum. So thanks for that. 

How accurate is  the Ryzen Master limits?  For example look at my ryzen master where it says limit 700w and limit 380a. Is that accurate? or should I still try to find the limit in the BIOS?  In the end of the day I don't think it will matter if I up them since I'm already at my temp limit. 

From what I've been reading the Creation is probably the best motherboard for getting the most out of this cpu. 

One of my mistakes though is I fell in love with an ATX case (corsair x570) so I got an ATX board do you know if there are any ATX boards that come close to the Creation for VRMs?  I can't seem to find any info about my Aorus Pro motherboard.

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cgorange, these are difficult questions to give definitive responses.  The limits for PPT, TDC and EDC are just numbers - what does accurate mean?  They are the exact numbers the MB people put in the BIOS.  BIOS may allow you to raise them or not.  You have to look.  In my case PPT limit was set to 250 Watts, but I raised it to 400 Watts in the BIOS to get better Cinebench results.  Remember the EDC on the WX processors is defective in RM - hope it is corrected soon.  There are really two limits on PPT, TDC and EDC - absolute one set in BIOS and the one set in RM. 

I cannot recommend a MB for TR.  Enjoy, John.

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You answered my question but I ment. Notice how Ryzen Master says PPT 250, Limit 700.  I was wondering if the Limit 700 was actually accurate or a number that could be mis read from Ryzen Master.  In that If I upped my number from 250 to 700 because it says limit 700 if it would catch on fire because it wasn't accurate.. But your saying that that 700 number should be somewhere in my bios right? I'll take a look.

I'm not going to change anything anyway since I'm already at max temp but was just curious. 

I have a reply that's being moderated now that has a really nice overclocking tutorial about the 2990wx and explans a lot of the PPT info. 

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cgorange
Adept II

I just ran into this video on youtube.. It was very helpful in understanding TDB and overclocking in general.  Thought I'd share it.

X399 AORUS XTREME v ASRock and Asus with 2990WX 32 core Threadripper 2nd Gen! - YouTube 

It also helps that it's a similar motherboard to the one I bought.  But.. I still don't know why there isn't much info online about the Aorus x399 Pro motherboard. It all seems to be the Gaming 7, Xtreame or Designer.

Thank you! Very helpful.  Is the Temp when the boost levels off the PTC?  

After reading the Ryzen Master QuickStart guide again I think that it is. But I thought the throttle temp was 68c ?  My Ryzen Master says 95c for PTC ?  Does that mean it doesn’t throttle at 68c?

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I don't have a Ryzen CPU (FX 8350), So you probably know more than I do and are asking very valid questions. 

I do know that the 68c is the Maximum Operating Temperature of your Ryzen 2990WX.  That means that once the CPU temperature starts reaching 68c, the CPU starts to throttle to keep the Max Operating Temperature at 68c or below. Once it goes beyond 68c it starts to severely throttle to keep power usage less thus lowering the CPU Temperature back to 68c or below. Once the temperature reaches a certain point beyond 68c, to preserve itself from being heat damaged it will shut down the computer.

I have this website bookmarked that gives all the Max Operating Tempertures of CPU and GPUs. It doesn't have the 2990WX but does have 2970WX listed. Same Max Oper.Temp as 2990WX:

This previous Tom's Hardware Review of the 2990WX explains about using PBO and CPU Coolers on the Ryzen. It might be helpful and understanding your high temperatures.https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2-2990wx-2950x,5725-12.html 

This website is even better at explaining about PBO and 2990WX power consumption and heat issues: https://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2990wx-processor-review_207135/9 

One very important data that I learned while trying to give some valid information about your original post is that PBO will void your CPU Warranty. From above link from Legitreviews:

Hope you don't take that particular info as a "grain of salt" (-:

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Ha. Well Played.  That’s a lot of helpful info.  I’ll take a look at those links in more detail.  I heard that 68 was the throttling temp but If you check the attachment I put on my first post in this thread and go to the right of the screenshot PTC it lists 95c and I looked up what PTC was and it says, its the temperature limit at which the core speed will be greatly reduced.. So I wondered what the difference was. 

and nah I wont be doing any OC since my temps are already hitting 68.  But seeing people get nice overclock by just raising the PPT is very tempting. 

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Found this Reddit Forum where a User quotes from AMD about what PTC is: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/8h01u3/processor_thermal_control_ptc_temperature_too_high... 

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Interesting.. I wonder why it shows 95 though if the real throttle temp is 68.  Though that one guy has random numbers listed so maybe its just some irrelevant number that doesn’t work right yet

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I am just guessing but could 95C mean that is when the CPU will actually shutdown the computer from getting the CPU from being damaged from overheating.  In another words, that is the limit where the CPU will stop throttling and just shut down the computer.

68C is the Maximum temperature the CPU will operate normally under load before throttling starts taking affect on performance due to lower speeds. Once it reaches 95c which is the limit at which the CPU will stop throttling and allow the CPU to shut down the computer.

Just an educated guess from my understanding that AMD said that PTC was a reference Temperature for throttling.

EDIT: by the way, in this case you can take my comment in this post with a "grain of salt". It is just my own personal opinion and my own understanding from trying to answer your post. I could be completely incorrect. Hopefully some of the more technical Users might be able to give a better answer.

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I’d guess the same but the description is poor writing or a bad translation then.