PC Processors

[skycyclepilot]

I have an R5-3600 on an X370 motherboard.  It works exactly as it should.  But, at times the CPU is being hit with voltages as high as 1.45 volts, which is well beyond what AMD says is safe.  I'm wondering if AMD is pushing these chips this hard, just to get every last bit of performance out of them that they can, without regards to longevity.  The designers of the architecture say 1.30 volts should be the max.

Might our CPUs last longer if we set the voltage to the standard 1.10v, which an offset of 0.2v, for a maximum of 1.30 volts, and then set the frequency to the maximum those voltage settings would allow - probably 4.10 to 4.30 GHz?

I'd love to hear what others think, and what AMD has to say about this.

[pokester]

These are USER TO USER forums.

To hear from AMD, you would need to ask them: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form 

[skycyclepilot]

I understand that these are user to user forums.  Reread the last sentence in my original post.  I was interested in what AMD might have say, but I was also looking for opinions from other users.

[pokester]

I did read it and wanted to let you know the only way to contact AMD. 

[skycyclepilot]

Oh, okay.  My apologies.  I guess I misunderstood.  Thanks for the link.  I'll ask AMD about this.

[pokester]

Sorry I don't have any advice for you. I even have a 3600 myself but never seen my voltages that high. You might want to ask that question to your motherboard maker as well. My bet would be that it is more your motherboard doing this. Obviously without testing it is hard to say.

[skycyclepilot]

Try running a single threaded workload, such as the single thread option in Cinebench, and monitor the voltages is HWInfo.  You'll see maximums of 1.45 volts.

[elstaci]

1.45 volts is not considered past its Maximum safety range. In fact many Users that overclock the Ryzen run the Processor constantly above 1.40 v. But running Ryzen at 1.45 or above range constantly will shorten the life span of the processor.

Ryzen has built in safety measures that prevents the Processor from running past its Maximum safety range. If it senses that it is going to go past one of its built in Maximum safety ranges the processor will either throttle or shut down to prevent damage. Users can not change this Maximum Safety range built into the processor.

If you are getting 1.45v in normal computing like at idle or browsing or even playing a game constantly than I would say something is making the processor work harder than it should and should be investigated.  But if it only occurs while being under a Stress Test like Cinebench then it may just be normal if it reaches 1.45v for a very short time. Also Ryzen processor may reach 1.45 v in normal use but it will only be for a split second depending on the load at the time.

AMD has two type of safety ranges that I am aware of. The normal Operating Safety range and the Maximum safety range. The Maximum Safety range goes into effect when the User enables PBO and XFR.  This allows the processor to be safely Overclocked and go past its Operating Safety range within its Maximum Safety Range.

This is AMD explaining about PBO and how it operates under Operating and Maximum Safety ranges: https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/08/13/understanding-precision-boost-overdrive-i... 

From Tweaktown on overclocking the Ryzen and the voltage range for overclocking: https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8506/ryzen-1000-series-overclocking-guide/index.html 

The flow chart above is pretty basic but spells out some things you should know before you begin. At around 95C the CPU will throttle, so you want to stay at least 10-15C below that for safety. CPU core voltage maximum is 1.45v, and SoC voltage is 1.2v.

AMD's Ryzen CPUs do not run off a VID table; they run between 0.2-1.5v depending on load and environmental characteristics, but when you overclock, you should not set anything above 1.5v (I doubt you could even cool a CPU at that voltage). You should expect a 3.9-4.1GHz overclock.

Note: HWinfo lists the Maximum Voltage but not how long that Max Voltage lasted. It could have been a split second and not running constantly at 1.45v.

[skycyclepilot]

I'm not looking to overclock, but do know how it's done.  My CPU is set up totally stock - no XFR or PBO.  Under load, it often reaches the 1.3 to 1.4 volt range, and under light loads, I see cores hitting 1.45.  I've seen dozens of quotes online, purportedly from both AMD and TSMC that, for a daily driver, one should not exceed 1.3 to 1.325 volts, yet, the chip exceeds that on its own, regularly.  Others are saying AMD is doing this to sell CPUs, without regards to longevity.

Now, I realize that, just because people are quoting AMD and TSMC as saying that anything over 1.325 is verboten for a 7nm chip doesn't mean that actually said that.  I wish someone could confirm this.  I can't seem to find a valid quote from either company about this issue, but lots of people are posting concerns about it.

[elstaci]

Ryzen Master is the best way to monitor a Ryzen Processor.

At the top of Ryzen Master shows several processor and Motherboard indicators like PPT and Temperature etc which is explained in that PBO from AMD article that I posted or in the Ryzen Master Guide. If ANY of those indicators are in the RED that indicates the processor is probably throttling or will start throttling. Most can be resolved by changing some BIOS or Windows settings.

I suggest as, Pokester mentioned, to open a Online AMD Service Request (Official AMD SUPPORT) and ask them directly about your concerns from here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form 

Personally, I believe your processor is working normally. It is normal for the processor to have spikes up to 1.45v during normal computer operation.

I would be concerned if the vCORE was running constantly above 1.40 volt without overclocking.

[skycyclepilot]

I have submitted my question, and I have no doubt the CPU is operating as designed.  My only concern now is that AMD's design is sacrificing CPU longevity for a slight improvement in performance.  I won't be surprised to see a spate of CPUs failing, just out of warranty.

[elstaci]

As long as the Average vCore voltages and Temperatures is within its Operating Safety ranges, it should not affect the processor's longevity.

"one should not exceed 1.3 to 1.325 volts" I believe this is the Average Operating Safety voltage range which includes any spikes above 1.325.  Ryzen Master will show this if you decide to install it. You can download it from AMD from here for your processor: https://www.amd.com/en/support/cpu/amd-ryzen-processors/amd-ryzen-5-desktop-processors/amd-ryzen-5-3... 

But if the voltages average is above 1.4 constantly like when overclocking than there is possibility that the processor longevity would be shorten a little or a lot depending on how high the average voltage is above 1.40.

anyway I hope you post what AMD says.

Most of the info I got from AMD employee at Reddit that explain about the voltages in Ryzen and the high spikes that may occur. If i find it I will post the link here for your to read.

NOTE: IF what you believe is true than at least you will have 3 years worth of use from the Processor before the AMD Warranty expires (-:

EDIT: Found the Reddit thread where AMD Employee explained what i mentioned in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8ojte9/amd_responds_to_2700x_spikes_above_15v_vcore/

[skycyclepilot]

I do have Ryzen Master installed.  I just haven't messed with it much yet.  I'm old school when it comes to overclocking - I do it in the BIOS.  I'll do some monitoring with RM and see what it has to say.  Thanks for all the information you've taken the time to provide.

[elstaci]

Here is another AMD Roberts explanation concerning Monitoring software and also voltages on Ryzen: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g/the_final_word_on_idle_voltages_for_3rd_gen_ryzen/ 

[skycyclepilot]

Thanks!