PC Processors

[mpw]

Message was edited by: M W - this answer should not be 'assumed answered' because a solution has not been found.

I'm essentially encountering stuttering in games and some applications, despite my temperatures being fine and low usage of the components. My questions are: is this likely hardware as it is presenting itself on operating systems, over two drives? Also, what other tests can be performed to isolate where the issue may be?

Prior to all of this, I have had difficulties with the system since I purchased the parts, and built it. I have had 3 motherboard replacements due to hard freezing, which appears to have been a PCIe lane problem from PCIe Gen 3 on the board. This is now resolved.

I have also had a problem with my GPU throttling due to heat problems, this was replaced and considered a faulty part.

Description of Problem:

On every setup I have tried, games will encounter some form of short micro stutter. This lasts a short amount of time, and occurs at seemingly unknown* intervals. It can happen in a series of stutters, or not happen for over one hour. Once it begins, it is very noticable and prominent. The stutter will last approximately between 250ms to 1 second. I observe that the frametime will often spike, but not always.

This was tested on both Linux and Windows 10, on separate drives, with fresh installs, over multiple disks. This has been tested under 'diagnostic' conditions, whereby I have installed and updated my drivers, and disabled anything that is not required, nor unrelated to the task at hand.

There are no overclocks, though I have tested with stock speeds at higher voltage. And tested with overclocks. If anything, an overclock will help. Though, I am keeping it removed. This began before any overclocking took place.

I have attempted the following:

* Replaced components

* Reinstalling the OS (and trying Linux, on different HDD's/SSD's, and removing them when other drive is in use)

* Flashing BIOS

* AMD chipset drivers

* Updating Nvidia drivers (and removing old ones with DDU)

* Reseating components

* Removing peripherals and components until the bare essentials

* Resetting CMOS

* Reducing GPU power target

* Checking VRM temps

* Disabling drivers, and keeping the bare esential drivers required to run

* Checking LatencyMon -- sometimes ntoskrnl will spike, sometimes it wont. Sometimes I will have a high ISR latency, sometimes I wont.

* Monitoring voltage

* 3 different monitors, cables and display interfaces (DVI, HDMI and displayport)

* Disabled and uninstalled monitoring software

* Reduced graphics settings in both Nvidia Control Panel and games themselves (remember, it happens in some applications, too) -- VSync off and on

* Using Prime95 for stability at stock settings -- passes all torture tests

* Tried different power plans, with different CPU % settings

* Purchased a PSU tester, and it passes all the tests.

I also disable unnecessary services and processes on both operating systems.

I've replaced the board, the GPU, and almost every other component. I've removed the network card and disabled the wifi and bluetooth drivers. My temperatures are good. To the point where Prime95 will max out around 78C on the test that produces the most heat. The GPU rarely goes above 70C unless in stress testing, and averages at around 61C during load. CPU averages around 58C during load.

There appears to be no throttling, or no obvious sign in monitoring software when this takes place.

The voltages appear to be fine, and hit the target voltages.

I do not know what to monitor anymore. I am kind of at a loss for where to look.

Clearing 'Standby Memory' on Windows appears to help for a short period of time, so I would have assumed disk/ram. Though, yesterday when I 'undervolted' (reduced power target) my GPU, it also helped for a long period of time. This does not always work, though. Sometimes I can remove the stanby memory and it will still happen, just less so. I cannot find the cause.

Component List

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor Ryzen 5 2600

Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  MSI B450M Mortar

Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 8GB DDR4-2400 Memory x 2 (16GB total) G Skill Flare X 3200 CL14

Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive Crucial MX500 2.5" Solid State Drive (500GB)

Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card

Case: Thermaltake - Core V21 MicroATX Mini Tower Case

Power Supply: Corsair - TXM Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  Corsair RMx 650W 80+

Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte - GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter - Not connected

Monitors: Acer - XF240H 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor  x 2

Updated component list

[mpw]

I already did that and they told me to try a different motherboard. Which I

already had...

[cacxius]

I'm unable to do it because of an issue with what is stated on Gigabyte's website.

B450M DS3H (rev. 1.0) | Motherboard - GIGABYTE U.S.A.

If you look for the bios update (F3) it says that you need a specific chipset driver but the one provided on their website is not correct.

The version displayed on their website is 18.10.20.02 but when you use the .exe it tries to install the version 17.12 which seems older than the 18.10 which is the latest version available on AMD's website.

Since I can't find the 18.10.20.02 chipset I prefer not to Q-flash my motherboard.

I found a topic describing my issue here Newer chipset update 18.10.20.02 won't install for my 2700X, Chipset is stuck at 17.12

[kenwaysharma]

Having similar issues with my Ryzen 1600 8cores.

All  heavy  games like ac odyssey are stutterin. Thoguh im not sure it is the processors fault but rather it is my hard disk usage going to 100%. my games are not installed on ssd but windows is. Gta 5 also stutters.

[cacxius]

Maybe try to install your game on another HDD.

On my previous build I had a faulty HDD which causes stuttering in all of my games.

[samulelo]

I have an SSD and games still stutter and if You read we already said that

[cacxius]

Maybe its you who need to read. I'm not talking to you but to kenwaysharma

[samulelo]

Finally i solved!!!!!! with a brand new b450 motherboard what a nightmare the problem was gpu cpu comunication i think but now i can finally play again!

edit: now i will contact msi and g skill for a refund on the motherboard and the ram

[mpw]

Seriously?

Can your remind me what processor you have?

[samulelo]

Yes i solved and i have a ryzen 5 1600

[mpw]

And what board did you have previously, and now?

[mittwaffen]

Are you sure its fixed even ryzen 2600 users with b450 complain of shutter.

[mpw]

samulelo​ -- any update since fixing it?

[mittwaffen]

Id also like to know.

[mpw]

Still no solution found.

[mittwaffen]

Im testing a new x470 so ill report back

[mpw]

Thanks -- how is it?

[misterj]

Have any of you tried disabling SMT?  It may slow the game, but I am curious if it deals with the freezes.  Thanks and enjoy, John.

[mpw]

Yes, I have tried disabled SMT, John.

[misterj]

Thanks, mpw.  Enjoy, John.

[diasvinic]

Hy guys, I'm from Brazil and came here because I have the same problem and anyone could fix it. I change my psu, instal a fresh windows, update the windows and driver and nothing worked. I don't have money to change anything else, because in Brazil it's to much expensive and I was accept in a University out of my city. Do you fix the problem? How? 

Tanks for the space

[mpw]

Hi,

Sadly, it seems that AMD are refusing to take responsibility, or support customers in this instance. They are more-or-less using the same old rhetoric, that it cannot possibly be a fault with them. That it must be the motherboards, or the graphics cards... or anything else that isn't them.

[diasvinic]

Ryzen 5 1600 travando e dando lag - YouTube  

Happens something like this in the video? 

The video was recorded by myself just to show the problem

[mpw]

Hi,

Please keep this uploaded. I plan on watching tomorrow morning.

Michael

[diasvinic]

I upload a better video show the problem 

Segundo teste - YouTube 

The firt one I let upload too

[mpw]

That is terrible performance. 

I hear PUBG does has bad performance generally, but that is unplayable. Especially with the system you have, that should not be happening.

My stutters are less frequent, but lately are getting worse and more frequent. I don't really experience the audio problems you are experiencing, but the video problems I am definitely getting.

I am going to purchase a full sized ATX motherboard, and set it up outside the case. If this does not work, then all of AMD's recommendations have failed, and directly points to a Ryzen problem, as by that point, I would have changed every 'type' of component - i.e. different brand PSU, different wattage PSU, different RAM brands, speeds and sizes, different storage sizes, formats, and speeds, different operating systems, different peripherals, different motherboards (already tried 5 x mATX motherboards), different graphics cards, different cooler, audio/no audio, monitors, and so on.

When this happens, I will be expecting compensation from AMD as this will prove that they have wasted my time and money.

In fact, I will even be purchasing a UPS.

[samulelo]

Sorry for not responding but since that day after restarting my pc the problem is back again so i could not respond as i don't know what to say as i'm speechless myself,so i talk to a  guy who work at pc assistance in my zone but as i speak to him he was not as experienced as i expect but we both though it may be an eletrical problem cause my house is very old as the electrical wiring even my avr that should regulate the voltage often show inconsistent voltage.

So now i'm planning to bring the pc to him and try to reproduce the same problem and "maybe" resolve.

Then i don't think is a problem spesific to ryzen as 3 of my friend owning ryzen cpu(i'm the one who told them to upgrade to ryzen) don't have all this issue so maybe not having a "proper ground" socket cause this issue even if my cousin i5 4xxx series have no issue at all in the same room as mine .

Sorry if my english is not perfect

[mpw]

If your cousin doesn't have the same issue, then I'd imagine it wouldn't be

the grounding.

[samulelo]

This is what i though but at this point i don't know what else can cause the issue 

[mpw]

In your situation, you pretty much confirmed that it was the CPU.

[samulelo]

Yes is cpu related issue in my case, but  even when i replaced the cpu the issue still occur and the chance that 2 cpu are faulty is quite rare so  i though it may be something causing the cpu to not work correctly.

[mpw]

But, like me, I assume you replaced for another Ryzen?

I have replaced Ryzen-for-Ryzen 4 times. It always happens.

[samulelo]

Yes the same cpu ryzen 1600 for another ryzen 1600 as i can't afford to change mobo cpu and ram also if you replaced 4 cpu is really unlikely that is the cpu itself,

[mpw]

But, unlike you, I did change all of those things, too. 

The only 'model' that has remained the same in my system (but the physical component changed) for me is the Ryzen 5 1600. I tried different brands and models of everything else, and still the problem persists.

So, knowing this, you don't think the CPU?

[samulelo]

I mean i changed multiple component too but one by one  and what i mean is that i did not try to change platform to intel.

Edit:Also i do think Is a CPU related issue but i can't Be sure if Is the CPU itself after i replaced mine 

[mittwaffen]

Fixed. X470 + 2600X - partially... the stutter comes and goes but improved on ryzen gen 1.

I think there is a major flaw in b350s or the first gen ryzens that AMD is downplaying to avoid a recall or upgrade for people like us that pay close attention. 

If you go on youtube you'll see tons of ryzen users with this issue. The motherboard plays a small part in this with flawed power design; the second major flaw is the first gen CCX

I even heard AMD is working closely with MS to optimize their kernel for AMD cpus to improve performance (and likely reduce the issues with ryzen), from what ive researched the ryzen cpu when threads change around from CCX to CCX the cache data is sent into the ram then into the next CCX cpu L3. There is software to manage the thread changes per app to minimize this, but from what ive gathered off development forums; AMD is trying to optimize this aspect of their processors and windows. I think this is a major cause of hitching that we experience. 

Basically AMD has a minor design flaw from what ive read from software engineers and hardware designers; their aware of it. But for such a minor issue as hitching, they wont do anything for us. 
At the end of the day, I upgraded to give AMD one more chance before jumping ship; They passed, so perhaps the 2000 series improves some aspects the first gen lacked in. 

However I wasted more money because their company doesnt provide good support for customers with keen attention to detail. 
Apple for example, Nvidia (EVGA), provide very good support.

AMD could position themselves into a good spot if they started to put customers like us first and perhaps they may have to give swamps to some people once in awhile; but they would build loyalty and customers for life even if intel wins. Email corporate and complain.    I still have major issues with my rx 470 still and well, just gonna upgrade to a 1060 6gb and be done with them on GPUs; That was my third AMD gpu in 20 years, and their lack of support lost me as a GPU customer for life because of it. 

Engineering flaw without them providing support to the customer; Im sick of spending money to run in a circle on issues. 

AMD you have me for now with your cpus, but get your customer support together; enough is enough. 

[mpw]

So your new setup is 100% stutter free now, mitwaffen?

[mittwaffen]

Stop thread 'hopping' between CCXs and unnecessary SMT for Ryzen gaming and app performance: 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/755139-recent-w10-patch-march15-shows-some-improvements-for-ryz... 

https://www.windowscentral.com/amd-says-windows-scheduler-isnt-blame-ryzen-performance 

AMD Ryzen and the Windows 10 Scheduler - No Silver Bullet | PC Perspective 

Game Modes & Architecture, Infinity Fabric Latency Testing - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X Review 

Threads to support previous posts -- Good reads to explain whats actually occurring. 

[overclock98]

I built a new PC just this week my specs are 

CPU RYZEN 5 2600X 
Motherboard MSI X470 GAMING PLUS 
Memory CORSAIR VENGEANCE PRO RGB 32 GB @ 3000mhz
PSU - CORSAIR TX850M 
OS Windows 10
BIOS Date 20181116
GRAPHICS CARD - ZOTAC RTX 2060

my fps spikes and my game micro stutters as well, I have tried reinstalling drivers and have tried xmp profile on ram 

[mittwaffen]

I think theres a major issue with Ryzen cpus' or the windows 10 kernal with multicores.

[misterj]

mittwaffen, please see this thread.  As far as I know the scheduler problem only affects the new Threadrippers.  Enjoy, John.