PC Processors

[rui_ddit]

Having random Restarts. Anyone experiencing the same? There's no logs or anything, it just randomly restarts out of nowhere. Temps are ok 40C.

System :

Micro-ATX MSI B450M PRO-VDH Max

MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti/PCIe/SSE2

SSD M.2 2280 Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB MLC V-NAND NVMe

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Hexa-Core 3.6GHz with Turbo 4.2GHz 36MB

HYPERX - FURY DDR4 16GB 3200MHz

BE QUIET! - Pure Power 10 400W 80+

CORSAIR - Carbide Series 100R SILENT EDITION QUIET MID TOWER CASE

Ubuntu 18 LTS, now upgraded to 19.10

Everything is 4weeks old except the Graphics card which was working perfectly before on another rig. 

What ive tried thus far:

> Checked RAM settings and voltage, im using XMP 2.0 which is supported by the ram

> Checked CPU Temp, which is below 40C

-> Updated BIOS

-> Updated and Upgraded Linux. 

-> Ran some 3D benchmark, ran some games

-> Ran memtest first pass

Then I checked syslog and kernel log with more attention and there is a hardware error log from MCE at boot time. 

Jan 31 11:11:30 kernel: \[ 0.158669\] mce: \[Hardware Error\]: Machine check events logged

Jan 31 11:11:30 kernel: \[ 0.158670\] mce: \[Hardware Error\]: CPU 0: Machine Check: 0 Bank 7: fea020000004010b

Jan 31 11:11:30 kernel: \[ 0.158672\] mce: \[Hardware Error\]: TSC 0 ADDR 34ea4f200 MISC d012000600000000 SYND 1b3c41d47020a IPID 700b020350000

Jan 31 11:11:30 kernel: \[ 0.158674\] mce: \[Hardware Error\]: PROCESSOR 2:870f10 TIME 1580469085 SOCKET 0 APIC 0 microcode 8701013

I have two other logs, which i will post later when i can actually use the computer withouth rebooting, but they are about L2 and L3 cache! 

Nothing solved the issue so far. 

I can play games no problem. Its only when doing low load tasks it seems.

The issue started happening while fast forwarding movies, but now it happened also using sublime text, and even during login. The worst is it can go on for some time withouth any random restart but when it happens once then it happens again and again until it stops again.

Im at odds with this. Last time I saw such an issue it was on a Cyrix cpu in year 1999....im not happy about this at all, especially since the issie did not start immeditaly and now i cant return the product anymore, which Id like to after 4 hours of troubleshooting this and seeing its a hardware problem..

[cosmicdance]

Usually random restarts are a PSU issue but your symptoms are kind of the reverse of the normal ones.

It is usually whilst gaming that the restarts happen if the PSU is faulty as that is when it draws the highest load.

You could try an RMA on the PSU and get a more powerful one.

Andy

[hardcoregames_]

I suggest a 650W PSU to be more efficient as well as to have the capacity for gaming

the boost feature of the CPU and GPU can push the power consumption well above the TDP

[misterj]

rui_ddit, I only looked at your power supply.  It is way too low power!  Please upgrade to at least 750 Watt.  Thanks and enjoy, John.

EDIT: I posted this over an hour ago and do not know why it was not posted.

[rui_ddit]

Hi guys, This isnt a power supply issue. 400W is more than enough. I dont have any mechanical drives, and the computer does not reboot while under high load or any 3D intense operation (3D benchmarks and games run just fine), which is contrary to what youd expect for a power supply problem.

the restarts occur when idle or very low load.

[misterj]

rui_ddit, you can believe anyone and anything you want.  It is your machine and you can do as you wish.  I have seen many of these, many users feel as you do.  I feel just the opposite and oversize my PS.  You may well have other problems, such as memory, but you will not get by with a 400 Watt PS in your system in the long run.  I have seen few problems corrected with RMAed AMD processors.  AMD processors seem to come from the factory in good shape.  I have never RMAed a processor but have RMAed many MBs, including the same one three times and more than one set of memory.  Sorry you are having so many problems, but please remember this is a user forum and you may want to contact AMD Online Support  - I recommend it!  Thanks and enjoy, John.

[rui_ddit]

Hi Misterj, I respect your experience and recommendation with the power supply but I calculated the wattage that I need and 400W is more than enough. I don't expect  that my wattage requirements will change anytime in the future either. If anything they should get lower once I buy a new GPU, provided the technology spends less energy, which is likely.

Im going to contact the AMD Online Support, thank you for the tip. I'm aware this is a user forum but was actually looking for people with similar experience here to see if they had any other thing that I could try, before spending money or RMA'ing the product.

In my experience the motherboards cause more issues as well. I see that the MSI boards have had some issues with Ryzen. Thing is kernel is giving me a CPU L2/L3 cache issue, andmemory bannk issue. I'm leaning towards some RAM issue or defect CPU. I'll be updating my thread

[rui_ddit]

im wondering, what would be the symptoms of an incompatible memory ? would it even boot?

[rui_ddit]

Alright, I think I have either a defect CPU or a memory issue. im leaning towards defective CPU as the kernel is reporting a CPU hardware error. Those are messages coming directly from the hardware, kernel is just passing them to the system.

Now the system wont even boot into linux anymore. Not even with Ubuntu Live network install, it just shows up that syslog with the cpu message and reboots.

Is this a common issue with ryzen 3600??

I'm not happy at all with this and neither with the memory issues of ryzen, if I knew this I would rather have bought intel. My number 1 requirement for this PC is stability and I trusted AMD had improved their QC and CPUs. It is not a gaming rig it's a working PC and I'm a software developer and electronics engineer. As of now it is absolutely unusable and i'm unable to work!

[mviper]

I had similar issues with 3700x. I had 600W PSU, swapped it for 850W. No difference.

Had to RMA the CPU. 

Try latest Prime95 with small FFTs. I had issues with 2 workers (threads) after 10 minutes or so.. ( cores #15 and #16 - FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.4760124369, expected less than 0.4 Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file).

[joefuss75]

Had the same issues for a while.  For me i think in the end the only thing that worked for me was, turning off XMP and  configuring ram speeds and voltage manually.   And a lot of trial and error.  Otherwise, i was very close to RMA myself, cause i went through 3 different ram stick sets, 2 power supplies, and all had the same problems.

[pokester]

I would agree that 400 should be enough for your configuration as your GPU only needs 300. That doesn't mean though that your Power Supply is working right. 

The advice joefuss75‌ gave is great advise to check too. Those memory timings if not right play havoc on stability. A bad stick does too. 

You can use OCCT from ocbase_com to check your power supply and see if it finds an issue. Might be worth doing before sending a CPU or Motherboard in for RMA or swapping memory sticks. 

As others have stated when buying a Power Supply going well over your needs never hurts. 

I don't buy the more voltage being more efficient claim. It doesn't work that way.

Efficiency is in the build quality of the PS. A Gold is more efficient than a Silver rated PS and a Platinum better than a Gold, etc. Changing from 400 to 650 wattage alone doesn't make it more efficient. Either you equipment uses the power or it doesn't. Now what buying a higher than you need PS can do is that over time a power supply will degrade and if you are over what you need and it degrades you may still be okay. If you buy right at what you need and it degrades you can be in trouble. 

[rui_ddit]

RMA'd the CPU and Motherboard.

Memtest runs fine so memory is fine. 

I bet this is a problem of stability with ryzens memory management, or a defective board or cpu

To everyone saying it's can be a power supply issue, i calculated everything properly. Source: electronics engineering degree. The power supply  is enough, the issue happens in idle not a high load, and the power supply is stable, which means it cant be too weak power supply . However it could be not enough power on the cpu or memory sticks.

Will keep updating, i should have more news next week

[hardcoregames_]

rui_ddit wrote:

RMA'd the CPU and Motherboard.

Memtest runs fine so memory is fine. 

I bet this is a problem of stability with ryzens memory management, or a defective board or cpu

To everyone saying it's can be a power supply issue, i calculated everything properly. Source: electronics engineering degree. The power supply  is enough, the issue happens in idle not a high load, and the power supply is stable, which means it cant be too weak power supply . However it could be not enough power on the cpu or memory sticks.

Will keep updating, i should have more news next week

In my experience, BIOS bugs and the fact that AMD processors are more sensitive to memory does make it more frustrating.

One real problem is that cheap 4 layer motherboards are not very good for higher speeds RAM requirements. The better 6 layer boards are far better designed for higher performance components. Unfortunately most reviewers are unaware of the difference.

My DDR4-3200 runs at 1866 on the MSI X470 Gaming Plus. The same RAM on the MSI X570-A PRO does DDR4-2933 which is the limit for my R5 2400G processor.

The Ryzen 3000 series processors can handle DDR4-3200 on a 6 layer board.

[mviper]

As I've said... change the CPU if you can... or at least try Prime95 for 15 minutes.

[rui_ddit]

Hi everyone, just giving an update.

RMA'd the CPU and motherboard and as suspected the defect was in the CPU. They shipped me a new ryzen 3600.

I'm happy to report that the system is now stable. The system was stable with my first CPU in the very beggining, the problems only arose after a couple weeks, but if you dont see anymore updates from my side, it will mean the system is still stable. On a plus side, no more strange kernel logs about MCE, which probably means this CPU is fine.

DDR is running at XMP profile 1 (3200MHz), no issues. Its a hyperx ddr4 16GB memory stick, its listed as compatible in both AMD and MSI's board website.

For now everything is OK!

Thanks for the help !

[mviper]

Told ya.

AMD is having aaaaaaaaa loooooot of RMA's  lately.. I don't know wtf is going on with their QC..

[rui_ddit]

thx man! and yes, that's what I've been seeing too in a lot of pots, some QC issues. Might be they refine it in due time, as this generation is quite new still

[mviper]

Anytime. Glad to help, 'coz I've lost about a month or so to play around and found the issue I've never had before.

Well if you want to compete and be DA TopDog, QC should be on top of your list, imho.

[rui_ddit]

Yes absolutely, QC has to be a top priority. Particularly since they want to compete in the Server Market

[salseropilot]

How did you conclude it was a CPU, and not a Motherboard issue ? You said you RMA'ed both Motherboard and CPU.

[rui_ddit]

I dont know how they tested it at the store. I suppose they tried it on a working system and concluded it was the CPU. which was faulty. Or it could be they knew the problem, when I RMA'd I sent them a description of my troubleshooting

[salseropilot]

So the problem went away for you after you received a new Motherboad and CPU? In that case really you don't know for sure if it was the Motherboard or CPU that was the culprit, other than the store's word for it.

What I am insinuating is that it could have been the motherboard as well, if indeed you had both motherboard and cpu replaced.

[rui_ddit]

I said I received the old board, with a new cpu.. the CPU was defected. I have exactly the same hardware as before, except the CPU is new. And now it works fine.

Appart from the store being an IT store with a very high volume of sales, they are the biggest in the country meaning they have the expertise, I'm also an electronics engineer, with a lot of experience in assembling IT hardware, and I'm a software developer in Linux. I have over 10 years experience in all this. Believe me the CPU was defected. Its not so abnormal you know, new line of CPUs, QC is probably failing. Eventually they'll fix it I'm sure. They have to, to make profit and conquer server market which is where the money is

[hardcoregames_]

I have a R5 3600 and it seems to be nominally working but I have not done extensive testing yet.

[zarkon]

I have a Ryzen 5 3600, water cooled custom loop (never overclocked other than what Core Performance Boost does), in a

Asus x570-I MB with

32gb of Patriot 3200mhz ddr4 (PVS432G320C6K)

Also I've tested with 16gb of G.Skill 3200mhz ddr4 (F4-3200c14d-16gfx  on qvl for MB)

Corsair tx750 PSU

GTX 1080 (also tested GTX 1070 and a different brand of GTX 1080) output via HDMI to a 4k TV

NVME 4.0 boot drive, WD black sata drive,

Windows 10 64bit 2004

Bios settings:

Latest Bios as of Sept/2020

D.O.C.P. standard on

Core Performance Boost - auto

Precision Boost Overdrive - Disabled

If I use bios DOCP to run the memory at the settings I paid for, the system will randomly reboot during idle. Typically after windows is just logging in. Also I've had a few random reboots during table top simulator sessions with the memory set to DOCP as well but its much less frequent than during idle.

Changing memory kits did not fix.

If I run the memory on Auto instead of DOCP, it lowers the speed from 3200mhz to 2166 in the case of the Patriot memory and 2400 for the g.skill, the random reboots are gone.

I believe I have a bad CPU as well and have started the RMA process.

I also have a Ryzen 9 3900x on a

Asus x370 crosshair vi hero MB bios 7704 with

G.skill f4-3200c14d-16gfx memory, slot 2/4 populated.

Corsair AX860

GTX 1080ti

NVME

I've don't have the random reboots on this system. I've had some issues and initially I solved them by turning off both PBO and CPB as well as turning off the DOCP.

Currently I have PBO off and CPB and DOCP on auto/standard and I've been stable so far.

[hardcoregames_]

Your PSU is over 10 years old and the new RM series are more efficient, modular and have excellent lower power efficiency. The RM750 is an excellent choice.

[zarkon]

I ran the 3600 with a new Corsair SF750, as well so I don't think its the PSU. I changed cases so I switched back to a spare full atx psu I had.

I do like the RM, HX, AX series psu's from corsair but they are quite expensive at the moment. If I secure one, I'll test to see if it makes any difference but reading what rui_ddit said, he fixed it by replacing the cpu.

Either way, I'll update with new info in the future.

[hardcoregames_]

The Corsair SF line of ITX power supplies are fine. Some issues with some lots of the SF750 were noted a while ago,

We have recently identified higher-than normal RMA rates among our SF family of small-form-factor PSUs. Following a thorough investigation, we have found a potential issue that can manifest when the PSU is exposed to a combination of both high temperatures, and high humidity. This regrettably can cause the PSU to fail. This issue potentially affects units in lot codes 194448xx to 201148xx, manufactured between October 2019 and March 2020.

The lot is the first 6 digits of the serial number, so check it in case you have one of the problematic ones.

[zarkon]

My sf750 was not par of the recall. I did check the SN with corsair at the time.

[hardcoregames_]

I do not know if you had check it out or not