PC Processors

[colesdav]

Hello,

Does anyone on this forum have experience with a system with the following setup?

Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII (Wifi).
CPU : Ryzen 2700x.
RAM : Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200 4x16GB
          or
          Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3200 4x16GB
PSU = Corsair AX1600i 

Complete Build information here: https://community.amd.com/message/2904373?commentID=2904373#comment-2904373 
 

I am consistently getting Memtest86 failures with some modules in the Corsair Vengeance RGB  3200 4x16GB kit
In that case one 16GB RAM module of four failed Memtest86 and I had to RMA the entire kit.

That kit was selected using Corsair RAM Selector for the motherboard. 

The replacement kit = Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3200 4x16GB.

Corsair sent me the newer version (PRO) as the original kit is older and out of stock. The spec is 'identical' the changes are to the RAM style and the RGB's are individually addressable. 

In that case three of 4 RAM sticks failed Memtest86 and I have been asked to RMA the RAM back to Corsair again.  

I tested at default bios settings and clock speeds using ASUS original BIOS on the motherboard: 

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WI-FI/HelpDesk_BIOS/


Version 08042018/07/208.11 MBytes

ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI) BIOS 0804

I also flashed the motherboard BIOS to the latest available BIOS: 

Version 1201
2019/01/048.44 MBytes
ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI) BIOS 1201

Memtest 86 Test results are the same. 

I have the following questions: 

1. Should I have to make changes to the Ram Timings in BIOS to help get this RAM to pass Memtest86?
2. Does anyone know if AMD X470 motherboards support a wide range of DDR4 RAM or is there only a small subset of RAM sticks that work with confidence in reality?
3. Is it possible to populate an X470 motherboard with 64GB at 3200 MHz?

4. What level of confidence can I have that Ram Manufacturers actually test their RAM to run with Ryzen 2700x on X470 motherboards at rated speed? 

In the first case where 1 of 4 sticks in a kit fail I could possibly put that down to bad luck. 
In second case with RMA replacement RAM where 3 of 4 modules fail Memtest86 this indicates to me a Quality Assurance issue or a lack of compatibility with X470 motherboards / lack of testing generally.   

Please note I tested the motherboard and system extensively. I tested working sticks pass in all RAM slots.
I tested failing sticks in primary RAM slot and various other RAM slots. 
I downloaded and cut two different Memtest86 USB sticks, just in case something was wrong with the Memtest86 installation / USB.    

Thanks.  

[colesdav]

I also looked at setting Termination Block Ohms and CAD_BUS Block Ohms to Alt1 values.
Changing Termination Block Ohms and CAD_BUS Block Ohms from Rec to Alt1  increases the number of MemTest86 failures.
Just increasing CAD_BUS Block Ohms to Alt1 and leaving Termination Block Ohms at Rec settings showed more significant increase in errors than 
just decreasing Termination Block Ohms to Alt1 and leaving CAD_BUS Block Ohms at Rec settings.

[colesdav]

Using the above settings shown in DRAM Calculator for Ryzen  I get 2 Test 7 and 1 Test 8 failure running 1 pass of 4 of a  full set of Memtest86.
So I am getting close to finding the correct Motherboard BIOS Settings and Ram Timings to run this memory at 3200MHz.
I will look at reducing the CPU voltage next in an attempte to reduce electrical noise on the power supply.
DRAM Voltage set to 1.3500V.

SOC Voltage set to 1.03125V.
CPU Voltage will be tested from 1.5 volts down to 1.4 volts starting at 1.45 Volts.

[noodles59]

It is impressive that Asus' most expensive board is unable to run 3200 out of the box?!

Maybe time to dump Corsair and change to a better brand instead fumbling with ram timing.

[colesdav]

Any X470 motherboard will have a problem running 4 of dual channel 16GB RAM sticks at 3200. It is pretty much the limit of the Ryzen 2700x and X470 chipset. I selected a 3200 kit for that reason.

I do think Asus BIOS should do a better job of auto overclocking the DRAM though. I will discuss that in the support case.     

[colesdav]

This has some information regarding maximum memory frequency expectations on Ryzen 2700X and X470:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0mR4IoNWkQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1313

Specifically:

[colesdav]

Dropping CPU voltage down to 1.45 volts results in 1 single Test 7 failure running 1 pass of 4 of a  full set of Memtest86.
I will drop the CPU voltage down to 1.425 volts next.

[colesdav]

Dropping CPU voltage down to 1.45 volts results in 1 single Test 7 failure running 1 pass of 4 of a  full set of Memtest86.
Dropping CPU voltage down to 1.425, 1.4125, 1.4065 caused 2, 4, 6 Test 7 failures.

[colesdav]

Set CPU voltage at 1.45 volts.

Set SOC Voltage at 1.03125 volts.
Run 1 pass of MemTest86 Test 7 only, since that is the test that fails.
Tested changing DRAM voltage with following results. 
DRAM voltage = 1.3 volts - PC will not boot. Memory Timings are automatically reset.
DRAM voltage set to 1.375, 1.36, 1.355 volts, all result in an increased number of Test 7 Failures, higher the DRAM voltage results in more failures.
Dropping DRAM Voltage to 1.345 volts = 1 Test 7 error.

Looked at variation of CPU Voltage with DRAM Voltage set to 1.345 volts.

Set CPU voltage at 1.425 volts.

Set SOC Voltage at 1.03125 volts.
Set DRAM = 1.345 volts.
This results in 2 Test 7 errors.

Set CPU voltage at 1.425 volts.

Set SOC Voltage at 1.0375 volts.
Set DRAM = 1.345 volts.

This results in 6 Test 7 errors before I stopped the test. 

Dropped DRAM Voltage further to 1.34 volts.

Set CPU voltage at 1.425 volts.

Set SOC Voltage at 1.03125 volts.
Set DRAM = 1.34 volts.
This results in 2 Test 7 errors.

Looks like I will have to change other BIOS settings to get this DRAM to pass MemTest86 at 3200.

[colesdav]

Having thought about this situation it looks like electrical noise is a serious issue with Ryzen 2700x and memory overclocking.
Based on the above results I decided to drop all voltages as much as possible in an attempt to reduce electrical noise.
For all of the above results I had not looks at changing voltages other than CPU Voltage, SOC voltage, and DRAM voltage. 
The remaining voltages on the motherboard BIOS were set to Auto.
As you can from see the above tests I had hit a local minimum.
Variation of the above 3 voltage parameters from the following settings:

CPU voltage at 1.45 volts.

SOC Voltage at 1.03125 volts.
DRAM Voltage at 1.35 volts.
Only results in more Test 7 and some Test 8 failures.

I looked at modifying the Voltage Reference values from 0.5x down to 0.45x and up to 0.55x in 0.01 volt steps in an attempt to fix logic '0' read as logic '1'
errors, and vice versa. However moving the reference values only moved the failures towards one failure type or the other. Failures could not be eliminated, again indicating high levels of electrical noise on the system causing MemTest 86 failures.
 
I decided to look at dropping the PLL voltage from it's Auto value of 2.025 volts down to 1.8 volts, since that is the source of a clock generator, reducing the voltage amplitude should reduce electrical noise in the system.

I also decided to look at turning off some more ASUS BIOS options - to be discussed later.
Testing continues.

[colesdav · Accepted solution]

I have managed to run the 3rd RMA set of Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3200 4x16GB kit at 3200MHz and pass MemTest86.
Here is a shot of ASUS BIOS showing the CPU and Memory Frequency used: 


Here is a screenshot showing passing MemTest86 Tests 1 to 10 with a Single Pass. It also passes a 4 Pass Run including the Hammer Test 13.


  

Looking at the Ryzen Specifications:

AMD Ryzen™ 7 2700X

Specifications

Base Clock

3.7GHz

Max Boost Clock

4.3GHz

See: 
2nd Gen Ryzen™ 7 2700X Desktop Processor | AMD 

 
I set up MemTest86 tests to run at the highest Max Boost Clock 4.3GHz

You need to be careful to have BIOS settings which will also pass MemTest86 at Base Clock 3.7GHz.

Lower Clock frequency would usually imply less noise and it would not be unreasonable to assume that passing MemTest86 at  Max Boost Clock 4.3GHz 

would mean you will also pass MemTest 86 at Base Clock 3.7GHz. This was not the case. When I dropped the clock multiplier in BIOS from 43 to 37 and I ran MemTest86 it failed with many Test 7 errors.This has serious implications for users of AISUITE  III within Windows 10 if a User were to drop the Clock Multiplier from within Windows 10 from 43 to 37 using the AISUITEIII TPU menu for example. The User could end up running at a CPU clock frequency which is in fact causing memory failures which could wreck their Windows 10 OS or at the very least cause BSOD's. I made further adjustments in the ASUS BIOS settings so that MemTest86 passes at both  Base Clock 3.7 GHz and 

Max Boost Clock 4.3GHz.

The MemTest86 screenshot above at 4326 MHz is actually using the adjusted settings which pass MemTest86 at both frequencies. 
I drop the Clock multiplier from 43 to 37 in BIOS, reboot and run MemTest86 again.
Here is a screenshot showing passing MemTest86 at 3.7GHz . Note this passes Test 13 Hammer test as well but that is not shown in this screenshot.


 
Adjusting BIOS settings to achieve the above was difficult. 

I am now able to report back to Corsair and ASUS to tell them that this 3rd RMA set of Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 3200 4x16GB kit can indeed run at it's rated speed of 3200MHz on Ryzen 2700x with Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII (Wifi) motherboard and pass MemTest86 at Ryzen 2700x specified Base and Boost Clocks. 

I will supply the BIOS User Settings file to both ASUS and Corsair for their inspection. 

Corsair have told me they are unable to run Failure Analysis on the previous two RAM kits which failed MemTest86 with default ASUS BIOS settings and frequency when run at SPD 1.2 volt profile running at 2133MHz. 

I will continue to request that Corsair do something to fix their Ram Selector.

Hopefully AMD,  Asus, Corsair and other Ram manufacturers can work together to seriously improve memory compatibility and profiles for next generation Ryzen products. 

This RAM issue has cost me time and money to resolve. It has been difficult to debug and MemTest86 runtimes on Ryzen2700x are long.

I have opened a couple of separate posts related to this issue. 

https://community.amd.com/thread/238460
and 
https://community.amd.com/thread/238459 

Thanks again to everyone who responded to this post and gave advice.

I now mark this as Correct Answer.

[colesdav]

I started to test the memory performance and overall system stability in Windows 10 Pro 64 bit.
First test to see if I can load ~ all of the memory and check system stability at ~ default clock speed.
Here is task manager showing how loaded the system is - I will attempt to run the PC for 24 hours at this load.

[noodles59]

you still at 2133 and that's a far stretch from 3200, no?

That's all there is in Corsair?

[colesdav]

It's a baseline stability and performance test first with the CPU and RAM maxed out.
I am running RAM test within Windows 10.  
Then I will run it at 4.3GHz/3200 from within Windows 10 and see if that is stable or if it BSOD's.

[colesdav]

Ram testing in Windows 10 completed with no errors running at stock CPU speed (Baseline 3.7GHz)  and DRAM SPD frequency of 2133MHz. 
I now start testing at CPU OC of 4.3GHz and DRAM timings set to 3200MHz.

[colesdav]

All requested data has been sent to Corsair and Asus.
I will update when/if further information available.

[colesdav]

Update for Asus Technical Support.
I updated the Motherboard BIOS from Version 1201 to version 2203 version dated 2019/04/12.

Setting the BIOS Version 2203 to Default Settings and simply applying the DDR4 3200MHz  setting fails MemTest86 with a very large number of errors.

Version 2203 accepts the colesdav.CMO BIOS settings file that I supplied to Corsair and ASUS correctly.
MemTest86 with BIOS Version 1201 is clean following 4 passes.
MemTest86 with BIOS Version 2203 fails with 33 errors on a single pass of tests 6,7,8.

Clearly some changes have happened to the BIOS w.r.t. memory stability, and I can see an expanded memory QVL list now in the latest version of the Memory QVL list, including increased support for Corsair RAM.

However the changes have made the memory stability worse for my system based on initial test.
I may have to go back and adjust some motherboard voltages and memory timings again.
Since this can take days of testing and adjustment, and I have to use the PC though, I am flashing back to BIOS Version 1201.

This is my first Ryzen 2700X build. I ususally build intel PC's. I am used to purchasing DRAM, fitting it, running MemTest86 at the correct XMP profile and Memtest usually passes. 
If Memtest fails it is because of bad RAM and the PC works without issue when the RAM is replaced.

This experience with the Ryzen 2700X and Corsair 4x16GB 3200 Memory Support / Performance needs fixed / improved on this ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI) motherboard.
I do not want to have to repeat "Memory Timing and voltage adjustment" every time I update the BIOS.

Thanks.

[colesdav]

I decided to keep the  BIOS Version 2203  installed and I managed to come up with a new motherboard BIOS profile with alows 1 pass of MemTest86 to pass at 43MHz CPU and 3200MHz DRAM. I reported the results to Asus and supplied two settings files: 
colesdav_2203.CMO
colesdav_2203_settings. 

Asus have started to work on it according to email from Technical Support. 

[jorgemd]

4 modules of corsair RAM.
have you identified the one "bad" module after test? (if you've tested them one by one)
You said 3x16 work good and pass the test. 

[colesdav]

Hi, 

RE: have you identified the one "bad" module after test? (if you've tested them one by one)

Yes for the first two sets of RAM kits I found the modules that failed MemTest86 at default SPD speed.
These failing modules were Identified to Corsair and both Ram kits were returned. 
Corsair "were unable" to do full failure analysis on those two returned kits. 

The Third Ram kit was received and all 4  16GB Ram modules  pass MemTest86 at SPD speed. 
However they would not pass MemTest86 at 3200 MHz. 
I had to modify BIOS voltages and use the special Ryzen Ram Timing Calculator to achieve MemTest86 pass at 3200. 

The BIOS settings I used were sent to ASUS and Corsair. 

Thanks. 

[colesdav]

ASUS released the following BIOS Update: ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2901
Looking at the release information  for the BIOS:

Version 2901 2019/11/0814.84 MBytes

ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI) BIOS 2901
01. Update Memory Overclocking Rules
02. Fixed a display issue for Ryzen 3000 CPUs in the CPU Configuration tab
03. Fixed an issue with the HDD LED not working sometimes when using SATA M.2s with Ryzen 3000 CPUs
Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (C7HWIFI.CAP) using BIOSRenamer.

I have been passing MemTest86 (MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 Memory Testing Tool ) pre boot into Windows 10 with CPU = 4.3GHz and 64GB of DRAM at 3200 MHz. 
I have been consistently failing to pass Karhu Ram Test (RAM Test - Karhu Software ), with errors occuring at 7-30% coverage. Zero errors at 400% coverage is the minimum pass requirement for that test. 

 
I took a look at the latest advice from DRAM-Calculator-for-Ryzen-1.6.2. and compared those settings to those I use in BIOS for the ROG Crosshair Hero VII WIFI Motherboard.
The PC will not boot using the "SAFE" settings from the calculator, as memory overclocking fails at boot.

However after comparing the latest advice in the DRAM-Calculator-for-Ryzen-1.6.2. I found that making one change - dropping "procODT" from 60 to 53 allows me to boot into Windows and pass Karhu Ram Test with  ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2901 BIOS. 

This ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2901 BIOS along with dropping "procODT" from 60 to 53 allows me to boot into Windows and pass Karhu Ram Test with  ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2901 BIOS. 

More info on this thread: Maximus 

Update:

RE: I found that making one change - dropping "procODT" from 60 to 53 allows me to boot into Windows and pass Karhu Ram Test with  ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-WIFI-ASUS-2901 BIOS. 

I have been testing this for a few days and unfortunately dropping "procODT" from 60 to 53 does not reliably allow me to boot into Windows.
The PC will boot into Windows if the PC has been switched off completely for a few hours and provided the room temperature is low (15-20'C).

If the PC has been running and I power down and immediatly attempt to reboot I get an F9 BIOS error for RAM settings failure.
Increasing number of Ram Tuning Passes at boot up to 10 does not help at all.

So it seems that I have more work to do with RAM Settings to improve stability with "procODT" at 60 or ability to boot with  "procODT" at 53.

[colesdav]

I am currently running BIOS 3103, no problems.