PC Processors

[LeoZed]

Hey there! I have an Asus Vivobook m513ia laptop. It has Ryzen 7 4700u and vega 7. I recently bought extra RAM and now I have 2 x 8 ddr4 3200. The current VRAM is 512MB, however, I have enough RAM to allocate more for graphics, at least another 512. I know that the BIOS can set the UMA Buffer size parameter. However, there is no such option in my UEFI. Tell me, can you somehow allocate more memory for VRAM?

CPU: Ryzen 7 4700u

Graphics Chipset: AMD Radeon RX Vega 7

[hitbm47]

Hi @LeoZed 

As far as I am aware AMD APUs does not have its' own VRAM, the integrated Radeon graphics shares main memory (RAM) between the rest of the system and the integrated graphics. So if you are not struggling to open an application?, then everything is likely working fine.

Edit: Maybe the OS/BIOS/Radeon Driver will automatically allocate more RAM to the "VRAM" pool when you launch applications that require more. Or are you struggling to open certain applications? Furthermore, I suppose you meant you have 2x 8GB sticks and not 8x 2GB sticks (which is the order you wrote it in)?

Kind regards

[LeoZed]

Hey @hitbm47! Thanks for your reply.

> Maybe the OS / BIOS / Radeon Driver will automatically allocate more RAM to the "VRAM" pool when you launch applications that require more.
It's a pity, but it's not true. As I see it, the memory size is "locked". There is more than enough RAM (16GB), but the integrated graphics gets only 512 and not more megabytes.

> Or are you struggling to open certain applications?
At the moment, I have no problem opening applications. However, video memory is now a bottleneck, which I want to expand, especially since there are all the possibilities (RAM size).

> I suppose you meant you have 2x 8GB sticks and not 8x 2GB sticks
Yes, of course; thanks for the comment! I fixed it.

[hitbm47]

Hi @LeoZed 

It might be a pity, but it is not too say it is not true. Since this is how operating systems are programmed, they do not use all available RAM at all times.

A better way to test it, would be to launch an application (such as a game) that requires at minimum 1024MB of VRAM and to use an overlay such as MSI Afterburner to determine how much VRAM (Graphics Memory) is being allocated during the gaming session.

It won't necessarily change the value you see in Windows, since that is a default value.

If you are not familiar with MSI Afterburner, you can try using the Radeon Overlay while gaming, you do this by pressing Ctrl+Shift+O while in the game (it will not work in OpenGL games).

Let me know if you have tried it. I have read that some laptops do not allow you to change the VRAM in the BIOS, but this is not necessarily a bad thing, since it is only a default value. The XBOX One and PS4 also shares main memory between the system and APU (and that was even still only DDR3). It is possible that Windows dynamically allocates more RAM as "VRAM" while playing, but you'll only be able to see it with Overlays.

Edit: Furthermore, the 4700u is an energy efficient chip. It might be that they are limiting the capabilities of the 'u' chips, I think the 'H' chips are more relevant for gaming. For example, something like the 4800H I think is the gaming counterpart for the 4700U.

Kind regards

[hitbm47]

You see, it seems this is simply not how APU's operate, they work directly with the main memory (RAM pool) together with the rest of the system. The following games would not be able to launch or load textures at that pace if it was simply using 512MB of VRAM:

That 512MB VRAM is likely there to ensure their is enough VRAM for the display of images to the monitor/screen. These APU's work different from Desktop Computers. Furthermore, the compute power of that GPU would bottleneck before the speed of the RAM becomes the bottleneck.

[LeoZed]

@hitbm47 Thank you very much for helping me figure it out!

>>Let me know if you have tried it.

So, I started Civ6 with Ultra settings and using DX12. A deliberately bad idea, because the minimum requirement is a video card: 1 GB DirectX 11 Video Card (Recommended 2 GB). Additionally launched AMD overlay

Oddly enough, the game started. The performance test showed 12 FPS (by the way, on the Medium settings you can play comfortably at 40FPS). The overlay showed the following values:

Ram util 33% (11.8Gb)
Vram util 99% (488 Mb)

It can be seen that the Vram level will not rise above 512 Mb.

I made 2 conclusions

1. Despite the discrepancy between the minimum settings, the application successfully started
2. Still, the level of allocation of RAM for video is locked at around 512 Mb

[hitbm47]

Hi @LeoZed 

Ok so here is where I think the misunderstanding is coming in, you are expecting the VRAM to increase, but that 512MB is only for basic thing on the APU, like displaying frames to the monitor:

- Your RAM utilization is higher than it likely would've been on my Desktop system, since your Vega graphics is doing it's graphics computing from the data in the main memory (RAM).

- Your Integrated Graphics Chip itself (not the RAM) cannot do calculations fast enough on Ultra which is why you are getting 12FPS, not because of a VRAM bottleneck. If you look at the "GPU Usage" field in the AMD Overlay you would see it is running at 99-100% which means the Integrated Graphics is bottlenecking.

- Furthermore, you would not have been able to open Civilization 6 if the Integrated Radeon Graphics were not in fact primarily using the main memory (RAM).

Hope this answers your concern, you are in fact not VRAM bottlenecked, because APU's (Intel & AMD) are designed to work from main memory and not the VRAM.

Some games such as Hunt Showdown even show you have much memory it has available for graphics in the Settings, you might see something like 16384MB in that case.

I know it is very disheartening to buy an expensive laptop and expect higher FPS; your CPU is a beast by the way; but you need a laptop with a dedicated video card to get decent gaming and they are paired with the 'H' versions of the Ryzen CPUs.

Kind regards

[elstaci]

With APUs you have the option of adding more vRAM to the Integrated Graphics via BIOS Settings.

But in laptops it depends on your manufacturer if the vRAM is locked or not. If you don't see any BIOS Settings to change the vRAM from 512MB to generally the maximum of 2GB then that indicates that the manufacturer has  locked the vRAM to 512MB and can't be changed.

In Desktop APUs you have that option in BIOS Settings but in laptop it depends on the manufacturer or Model you have.

vRAM  is using System RAM. So what it does it removes the amount of vRAM from your System RAM Memory. So if you have 16GB of System Ram and you configure your vRAM in BIOS to use 2GBs then you now only have 14GB of System Ram for your laptop.

If your laptop has a Discrete GPU card then in Windows Settings -Graphics you should be able to configure the laptop to use the Discrete GPU card instead of the APU Integrated Graphics for specific programs or software.

[hitbm47]

Hi @elstaci 

Like @LeoZed mentioned in his post/comments it is not an option in his BIOS.

I agree with what you are saying and think it is correct. But I think other people are having a wrong idea of how it works, since I am quite certain one is simply forcing more RAM to be held aside for the Radeon Integrated Graphics as "VRAM" (which is not technically VRAM, it is still going to be as fast as the DDR4).

Furthermore, it would actually have a negative impact say your system only had 4GB of DDR4 for example, then you would force 2GB for the Vega and only leave 2GB for the game itself which would not even open.

The point is APUs whether it is Intel/AMD share main memory with the Integrated Graphics and CPU, and would use the VRAM for the basic necessary things, therefore it doesn't make sense to force extra VRAM for the APU.

This is how consoles since PS4 and XBOX One operate as well, the drivers split RAM as necessary during the gaming session.

Kind regards

[elstaci]

@LeoZed  This IT Professional explains it fairly well about the same concerns you have from this old Dell thread: https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Dedicated-Video-Memory-from-System-Memory-on-Motherboard/td-...

vRAM is RAM exclusively used  by the APU but even though you only have 512MB, the APU  via Windows will share the System Memory to be able to run any program that requires more then 512MB of vRAM as needed.

The APU will probably run Graphics more efficiently with more dedicated vRAM but in your case you are locked at 512MB. Plus if you don't have a discrete laptop GPU card with 2GB or larger vRAM and just your integrated graphics some programs won't run or work correctly since you don't have the minimum amount of vRAM.  But most programs aren't restricted by the amount of vRAM installed.

[hitbm47]

Hi @elstaci 

Thanks for the information, which is almost in exact correspondence of everything I have also already mentioned.

By the way, although I am not currently pursuing a career in IT, I did complete a bachelor's degree in computing, and I can tell you that a lot of the memory allocation is actually the responsibility of the Operating System, since we had to program parts of the Operating System.

Sure, like that person mentions the BIOS will do the memory configuration before-hand, but the code in the Operating System has to do the memory allocations for programs which you have to physically program in C programming language (or assembly) from a memory pool. Yes you likely cannot override a lot of things from the BIOS, but you can certainly write code to allocate programs to that memory.

Furthermore, like I already confirmed which you also now mentioned again the 512MB VRAM is permanently dedicated RAM for the GPU (not the whole APU, but the Integrated graphics chip), this does not at all mean that games won't open because the Operating System (Windows in this case) allocates main memory (RAM) to both the Integrated Graphics and CPU which it will virtually separate between the APU. This would not work this way on a normal Desktop PC which contains a standard CPU and Dedicated GPU, it will have different memory allocations since both have their exclusive VRAM for GPU and RAM for CPU.

This is what we proved by him being able to open Civilization 6 and all the games shown in that youtube video I have linked, those are all games that require more than 512MB VRAM and will very likely not open on a desktop PC containing something like an i7 870 and GTX 260 with 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

EDIT: @LeoZed is being GPU bottlenecked, not memory bottlenecked.

Kind regards

[elstaci]

@hitbm47 

Hi back

Just not used to having anyone greet me whenever they reply. Nice touch though. it is friendly way to reply to someone else.

[hitbm47]

@elstaci 

I understand that it is a community forum and English is also not my home language, but I am just trying to be respectful since it can be hours or days before someone gets the time to read a comment. Furthermore, in this case it is helpful for someone to know to whom a comment was replied to, since these comments do not appear as direct replies to other comments.

Kind regards

[elstaci]

That is one of the features that I miss in the old AMD Forum format that was removed in this new AMD Forum format.

In the old AMD Forum format you can reply directly to any User's reply. It would show up as a separate branch in replies under your reply.

Plus you were able to delete the entire discussion that applied to a User's reply but that was removed also.

[hitbm47]

I also remember something like that.

It had its' benefits, but I think the current version is probably better, since it sort of forces everyone to read through all the comments and I think it makes the moderators' reading more consistent and likely less straining on the eyes.

Furthermore, I think the nested comments probably made things a bit untidy/(reduced neatness) and probably introduced performance/bug issues since comments had to be expanded more vertically over the web-page. Also it probably took too much space vertically I guess.

Kind regards

[jt83]

Hi there mate,

I have the same issue as him i have a ryzen 5500u and 8gb of ram and vega 7 i think 
i'm trying to set my vram from 512mb to 1gb but i dont have that uma frame buffer size or any sort of option similar to that in my bios and i have tried updating my bios i dont know if i successfully did or not but i still didnt have the option is there any way i could get that option because im very much desperate and like i really really wanna set it to 1gb 

[hitbm47]

Hi @jt83 , I am not sure if I explained it in this post, but you are not supposed to allocate more memory to your integrated graphics.

Integrated graphics chips share RAM with the CPU, meaning the Vega 7 will use the DDR4 RAM in the system as "Video Memory" and the Operating System and the Radeon Driver is responsible for allocating RAM to the iGPU dynamically in the background, depending on which game/3D Application you open.

Are you having trouble to open a specific game or 3D Application?

[jt83]

okay thats fine, yeah sometimes i do have a problem opening a game, it says that i dont have enough video ram but anyways my main problem is that i have no way of configuring my cpu or gpu in my bios like there is no graphics configurations no nothing in my bios i cant change any configuration setting, is there a way to fix that, is there a way for me to be able to get those setting options in my bios for example the uma frame buffer option, i dont have that in my bios, how can i get it?

[hitbm47]

Hey @jt83 ,

That is dependant on the laptop/motherboard manufacturer if they actually include it in their BIOS or BIOS firmware update as far as I can tell. I am not an expert on this, but I have some experience with such things and BIOS features are unfortunately dependant on the manufacturers.

Which laptop do you have by the way?, so that some people here with similar boards might help confirm the issue with you.

It is really unfortunate that some people have to struggle with their laptop APUs, I wonder if it is not driver/OS related or even something with the Ryzen 'u' models instead of the high performance 'h' models.

[jt83]

i have an asus vivobook 15 m513ua, 8gb ram, ryzen 5500u, 475gb ssd, motherboard is x513ua m513ua 

and yeah it depends on the bios manufactures but like is there a way i can unlock those features or maybe idk somehow get them 

[hitbm47]

I have not looked further into your situation yet, but it really is supposed to automatically scale the VRAM as necessary. I just think some applications detect the wrong variable when looking for available VRAM, and one might have to try and edit the games config file.

Furthermore, I have quickly found this video on youtube and it is unfortunately for a Desktop BIOS (which I know you already tried searching), but it might still help listening to everything the video has to say, it is not that long:

EDIT: Here is another video doing the opposite of want you want to do @jt83 , and it is also on an Asus laptop, but I suppose it is a more performance oriented laptop he has:

EDIT #2: Apparently, another method that sometimes works (although I am not claiming/suggesting this at all), is to add another 8GB stick of laptop RAM. In AMD APU systems that allows the UMA frame buffer option, more RAM allows you to select more VRAM in the BIOS, so depending on the manufacturer BIOS it might allocate more VRAM by default.

[jt83]

the second video you have attached my bios is exactly like that except i dont have that uma frame buffer size option, and you're suggesting adding another 8gb of ram but that guy in the second video only has 8gb ram but he still has that uma frame buffer size option so why dont i have it, i wanna know how i can get it or smth man ffs but thank u for taking ur time to help me out, it means a lot 

[hitbm47]

@jt83, no , like I said I am not suggesting you add extra RAM (but there is a slight chance that it will work). Furthermore, are you sure the BIOS update was successful? Can you match the BIOS version shown in your BIOS with the one you downloaded from your manufacturer website?

It is my pleasure in trying to help, because there was a time in which I wanted to buy either an AMD APU laptop or a Desktop APU. Can you recall which applications or games you are having trouble with opening?

[jt83]

Im not sure if i have updated my bios successfully to be honest, ive tried and like i think i have updated it successfully, my motherboard is X513UA_M513UA 
and my version of bios says its 312 but in the manufacturer websites it says 308 as the latest so idk whats going on there
also tbh i dont rlly have trouble opening games its jus that sometimes games crash because of low video memory for example the new spiderman remastered game i can run it in lowest settings but it crashes sometimes bc of low memory and other games like warzone doesnt open at all and horizon zero dawn because of low memory i think but i think if i upgraded to 16gb ram they would open as i saw videos for it online

[hitbm47]

Hey @jt83 ,

Yeah something like CoD Warzone would definitely want more System RAM, I remember even Black Ops 3 stuttering when I only had 8GB of RAM, so just imagine CoD trying to balance Video Memory with System RAM with just 8GB.

8GB just is not enough for post 2016 gaming any more, even if they do not scale over a whole 8GB, since it will have to swap data between HDD and RAM often. I am not saying another RAM Stick will solve your problems, but I think it will likely help in preventing games from crashing.

So if you do not have the budget to buy a gaming PC or a new higher specced laptop, I think another 8GB RAM stick might be the cheapest route to go for slight stability improvements. In addition, if your laptop supports it and they can mount it in Dual Channel for you, it might even speed up your games slightly by 2-5FPS. I am not claiming it, but it might help in keeping your CPU fed with more DATA.