PC Processors

[walvest]

I’ve discovered that the essential licensing software for music production, iLok License Manager, does not run on the 9900X. Additionally, the DAW program Cakewalk, while it installs on the 9900X, does not function properly when executed. UA Connect, which is necessary to use UAD plugins, also fails to run. Since many programs, virtual instruments, and plugins rely on iLok License Manager, it is currently impossible to produce music on the 9900X.

I’ve seen other users on Reddit experiencing the same issues with the 9900X and 9950X. It’s surprising to see such problems with well-established programs like iLok and Cakewalk, which have been consistently updated and have run smoothly on any computer until now. I hope AMD can provide a solution to this issue soon.

[martel80]

Well, I definitely hope this is not a hardware limitation by the CCD and that it can be reframed on the software side of things by a firmware update by reframing the core scheduler if that's where the issue come from.

Especially because the Series 9000 cpu were supposed to be optimized for AVX 512 and it seems that many plugin that struggle as we speak are based on this Instruction set architecture. ( I might be wrong but that's my understanding as we speak so take it with a grain of salt)

This whole idea makes it even more awkward because it was kind of a selling point when you take it at face value.

[misterj]

martel80, I infer from your comments that you think the processor has scheduling responsibility. All task scheduling to individual threads is performed by Windows. Some changes to W11 (and maybe W10) to better schedule task on the later Ryzen processors is in Windows. John.

[martel80]

You are correct that Windows is responsible for task scheduling, but the CPU (via its firmware and internal resources) also plays a role, particularly for advanced features like AVX-512, AVX-2, SSE, and managing the relationship between CCDs. Both the OS and CPU must work together to ensure that tasks, especially those involving intensive Instruction set architecture workloads, are handled efficiently.

If one is broken or badly coded, issues arise.

Now Windows 11 work perfectly fine on other Series of CPU's. So we end up in the same bottleneck again and again. The Series 9000 framework....

[AP2]

From the support article you linked: "We do still include the iLok software in the Soundtoys installer, since Activation Codes still use the iLok software for licensing."

Meaning, whether or not you have an iLok account, Soundtoys is still activated by iLok.

Also, that email you pasted is not accountability. It's a canned email that they copy and paste to anyone who submits a support inquiry.  "We're currently looking into it" tells me nothing about a timetable for when they expect to resolve it.

Accountability would be either committing to resolve the issue within a reasonable timeframe, or sending an email to all users of iLok-activated plugins warning them to not buy or build PCs with Zen 5 CPUs until this issue is resolved. 

So far all we've been getting is copout responses and zero accountability from all parties involved.

[martel80]

So if like me, you install iLok , activate your soundtoys license and remove iLok, soundtoys plugins still crash. So iLok being the culprite is therefor not relevant to this conversation.

Now, accountability is not setting unrealistic expectation and time-frame towards their users but at least recognizing that you are responsible for an issue which they did acknowledge and said they are working on it.

That's what Matt did with his canned message. That's actually all he can personally do as he's a Tech Support with no hands on capacity to change the Firmware to address the issue. He most likely opened a JIRA for the devs to work on it. Now with all the trash they must have been working on since the release of the Series 9000 release, especially the very vocal Gaming community, I believe we will be thrown all the way down the order of priority because we are a very niche market with not much impact on their sales.

I agree that iLok should have sent a mass email to make their users aware of the situation and I also find that behaviour VERY unprofessional but just the system of 25$ license transfer should be enough for anyone to understand which sort of scam that company really is. Sadly, many manufacturer still rely on them to counter piracy which actually seems to do the complete opposite result and every product that is linked to that system just become a fun challenge for crackers to break. The irony. 

I also find AMD Series 9000 released butched and that situation right here is just the perfect example of what not to do when your competitors release a broken 13th and 14th generation cpu.

You should definitely not turn around and do the exact same thing they did. As I said in my first message, what a missed opportunity !!

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Can anyone answer why  iLoc feels it is necessary to access the GPU firm ware? How many programs do that? Take Adobe or Resolve PRO who don't and run like champs on the 9000 series. iLoc is the only program that is having issues (the music programs are not causing the issue). How many programs are using the CPU firmware to function? I guess this whole issue depends on how you view how iLoc protects programs and accesses the CPU firmware. Is a CPU maker is responsible if firmware is changed and if other firms programs can access that firmware to use fail because of the change if the CPU maker has not give specific authorization for software providers to us the firmware in their programs. I think unless this is fixed pretty quickly the issue becomes denial of service to the music software providers and end users by whoever is causing the issue, and the courts will decide who caused the issue and why it was not fixed in a reasonable time.

[martel80]

Audio plugin coding typically relies more on the CPU (NOT GPU) architecture and instruction set than on firmware. Plugins are generally developed using languages like C++ and often leverage specific CPU features for performance, such as SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) instructions. If a plugin is optimized for a certain architecture, like AVX or AVX-512, it may perform better on CPUs that support those features. However, the actual firmware of the CPU (which controls hardware-level operations) is usually not a direct concern for plugin developers. Instead, they focus on ensuring compatibility across different systems and architectures.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Anybody get a new update from either iLoc or AMD on progress on Friday?

[Lukas108]

I have sent e-mail to PACE, if there's any update in our matter. 

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Reply from East West today:

No - we haven't gotten any news about it.

Well, if one of proposed solutions involved changing the VST's, doesn't look like that is on the table. East West is one of the larger VST providers and you would think they would be included in the discussion if they are going to have to change their software.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

New Information from Pace:

Radio silence has never been our intention. We just have not had any new information to share. Today we have new information to share.

We cannot go into details but can confirm that AMD has acknowledged the issue and is actively looking into a solution.

Again, once we have more information to share that we can share, we will definitely pass that along.

***********************

Well at least something is happening.

[martel80]

Pretty much what Matt from AMD said on Monday.

I'm just happy to know that they don't hide their head in the sand and the source of the issue is what is being worked on.

[shredding_J]

Thank you for making this topic.

I recently build a brand new PC with AMD 7 9700x CPU and to my shock I could not access any UAD plugins. After I found out it was a Ilock problem I contacted Ilock, AMD and UAD all giving me the same answers I read here. It's really vexing cause I build this PC for audio production. I really hope people keep complaining to all three because we need to get this sorted!!!

[misterj]

shredding_J, if you are adventurer, look in your BIOS for a setting to Enable/Disable AVX512. If your BIOS supports the function, then Disable AVX512 and see if that helps. This was suggested by a user above. If you will post details of your system (all parts), I will take a look. John.

EDIT: @Musicmad is the suggester of disabling AVX512.

[Lukas108]

Question is if that works? My 9950X is out of the box, so I can't test it. When it comes to UAD - After reinstall they started working during my tests. In my case SoundToys bundle is critical stopper. No solution for these plugins. 

[misterj]

Lukas108, I assume you bought a retail PC. You may be able to open the BIOS and look around. If you will post details about your PC, I'll take a look. Thanks, John.

[shredding_J]

Thank you but wouldn't this cripple my cpu? 

[misterj]

shredding_J, surely not but you certainly can by changing certain things in BIOS. If you would at least like to look, give me information on your PC and I'll look. John.

[shredding_J]

I tried it, turned it off, reinstalled Ilock manager, same 2001 error. 

Pc:

R7 9700x

Asus x670E plus wifi

Corsair 2x16GB 6400

Samsung 990 1TB M2

Radeon 6750xt

[misterj]

Thanks much, shredding_J. Is it possible that you could get a screenshot of the BIOS setting and post it? Really sorry this is not helpful. Have you had a chance to try any other of the failing software (plugins)? Thanks, John.

[shredding_J]

Yes, everything Ilock related so UAD, NDSP plugins also.

Btw, I just saw the bios is old, so I'm flashing the bios in a minute... 

edit: Update installed to 3040.

[misterj]

Thanks, shredding_J, but I cannot see the option to Disable AVX512. Hope you are not talking about DOCP (Direct OverClocking Profile, ASUS attempt for their 15 minutes) a memory overclocking method. I recommend XMP. John.

[shredding_J]

Hi, yes I did turn it off but it didn't do anything. Besides that, I don't think messing in the BIOS should be considered a "fix" from either the Ilock or AMD perspective. This is a serious problem that cripples productivity and trust. I thought let's build a decent midrange/high end PC and give AMD a chance.... I should of build me an intel system instead of dealing with this BS. But also, thank you for trying to help btw!

[misterj]

shredding_J, it was not proposed as a fix, just a workaround until the real correction is available. I still would need to see the BIOS option used to Disable AVX512. Thanks, John.

[Dotje]

I initially tried disabling AVX512, but unfortunately, it didn't resolve the issue. For now, I'm taking a more unconventional approach and lighting a candle each night, hoping for a resolution to this ongoing problem.

[misterj]

Dotje, please post a screenshot of the BIOS option you used. John.

[shredding_J]

Light one for all of us, better yet use a flamethrower :\...

[Lukas108]

https://help.ilok.com/faq_ilm.html#amd_zen_5

PACE updated status. BIOS with ilok fix will be released in November. 

Better this than nothing. 

"

Please note AGESA ComboAM5 1.2.0.2A, the latest AMD AM5 Desktop SBIOS, is currently completing QA testing for stability and reliability, and is expected to appear in production BIOSes by early November. This update will enable PACE iLok Anti-Piracy software to run on AMD “Zen5” based processors.

"

[shredding_J]

At least now we have a time frame...

[OregonVideoPhotography]

"appear in production BIOSes by early November", does that mean a SBIOS fix is going to be available to those of us currently with the problem. It would seem if that is true, then the fix should be available before the production SBIOS for doing a BIOSes update. 

[bilalkhanicom]

experiencing issues with the Intel Core i9-9900X CPU during music production, several factors could be causing this. The i9-9900X is a high-performance CPU, but issues could still arise due to software optimization, hardware bottlenecks, or improper configuration.

[AP2]

This is the email I just sent to Soundtoys after receiving an email from them basically saying "Sucks for you, nothing we can do about it". I'll update if they respond, though I wrote a similar email to iLok last week and still radio silence from them.

"I've written multiple times to all parties involved, and all I've been getting for weeks is "we are looking into it". Here are the reasons I think this is not being taken seriously enough:

1. iLok, Soundtoys, and all other developers are still promoting their products and not issuing a warning for composers and producers to not build or buy PCs with the Zen 5 CPUs.

2. After I initially reached out to all parties, none of them mentioned this specific issue, even though I provided the specs of my PC. Only after I found out about it from a Facebook post and mentioned it to the various support people, did they acknowledge this issue.

3. I have not had any issues with plugins from non-iLok developers, which means that it's not a "bug in the CPU" as iLok claims, but a compatibility issue stemming from iLok's outdated architecture. It is iLok's responsibility to make sure to keep their product compatible with new mainstream hardware, and if they fail to do so, it's the developers' responsibility to switch to an authorization software that is compatible. Many other developers have their own authorization managers that work perfectly fine, so I have a hard time believing that switching to a different authorization system is an insurmountable task for Soundtoys and other developers.

I realize that there is not yet a large enough community of producers and composers using Zen 5 CPUs to make enough noise to get this resolved in a timely manner, but I also know that if there was a compatibility issue between Zen 5 and Steam it would've gotten resolved within days. I think that as developers of very widely used plugins in the music industry you (as well as iLok and AMD) have a responsibility to take responsibility, work toward a swift resolution, and perhaps most importantly, *communicate clearly and consistently* with all affected customers, as well as with those who would be potentially affected by building or buying new PCs with this hardware."

[misterj]

What happened to the RESOLVED posted earlier? John.

[martel80]

Just to clear up some misinformation that was previously shared;

Aside from the issues with iLok-protected plugins, there have been reports of other plugins and DAWs experiencing problems on Zen 5 CPUs, regardless of their reliance on iLok or PACE.

For instance, some users have reported issues with Cakewalk when used on Zen 5 CPUs, leading to severe lag or crashes when loading plugins. Interestingly, these issues resolved after removing iLok-related components, suggesting a potential conflict, but Cakewalk itself isn't exclusively dependent on iLok​(

Cakewalk Forum

).

Additionally, SoundToys plugins have also been mentioned to crash on Zen 5 CPUs in certain scenarios, even when iLok isn't necessarily the direct cause​ (ie, after removing ilok, they still crash after activation)(

AMD.com

).

In general, it seems that while iLok-licensed products are the primary ones affected due to PACE's involvement, other plugins and systems (like LiquidSonics plugins) may still exhibit instability on Zen 5​(

LiquidSonics

). It's possible this is due to deeper microarchitecture compatibility issues that AMD and developers need to address.

For now, it's advised to stay updated on firmware or software patches from both AMD and plugin developers.

[AP2]

I'm assuming you're referring to my post. It was not misinformation. I said that I haven't experienced issues with any non-iLok plugins, not that it's impossible that other developers may have experienced issues. Furthermore, I don't know about Cakewalk but both Liquidsonics and Soundtoys use iLok, which is present in their plugins regardless of weather or not you use it to authorize them.

This is from the email I received from Soundtoys: "The iLok software is fully integrated into our plugin files and cannot be separated from your product. Even if you were not using an iLok account to harbor your licenses, you would still be unable to run the product files on your computer."

Regardless, what I wrote in my response is still true:

1. If so many other plugin companies can have their own authorization managers that are compatible with Zen 5, there is no reason Soundtoys, Eventide, and other developers can't do the same.

2. If the compatibility issue affected a gaming platform like Steam, this would've been resolved long ago. We are being treated like afterthoughts. Can you imagine all the gamers being locked out of their games for months?

[OregonVideoPhotography]

So I finally gave in. Even though EW was great in getting the last version of Play to work, I wanted Opus because for doing a lot of mockups quick, Orchestrator is very good (only iLoc stuff I have is East West). So as a stop gap measure yesterday I bought The Orchestra ( and for how I use Opus Orchestrator I may just like The Orchestra better). The EW instruments are  better I think, so when we get the BIOS upgrade, I will do it. Byy using Melodyne to extract the midi, I can again use the mockups by The Orchestra to develop quickly midi sections to use in my templates. I love EW (especially since they went the extra mile to help me). This is my first Kontakt protected product. The Orchestra was a  cheaper than changing GPU because I run Resolve PRO and I need as much "horse power" as I can afford in my system and a Thread Ripper was out of my price range. So the 9950X was my choice. The non-communication from both companies may make me reconsider what I get with new software or a new computer from now on.

[martel80]

Just received an email from Matt at AMD;

------------------------------

We appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience you may have encountered while trying to use the iLok License Service with your AMD Ryzen processor.

To stay updated on the latest information, including any new developments related to this issue, please visit the following link: https://help.ilok.com/faq_ilm.html#amd_zen_5

We recommend that you regularly monitor your motherboard manufacturer's website to keep track of the availability of an updated BIOS version, which will resolve the issue.

Best Regards,
Matt

---------------------------

I appreciate their follow-up and acknowledge their accountability in this serious issue.

It makes me understand they did not simply close the ticket and will keep us informed in this very unfortunate event.

Hats-off Matt !

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Got the same message. And now have MyAsus installed, just waiting for the update notification. 

[misterj]

OregonVideoPhotography, what MB do you have? John.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Asus Prime B650M-A AX II AM5 Micro ATX