PC Processors

[walvest]

I’ve discovered that the essential licensing software for music production, iLok License Manager, does not run on the 9900X. Additionally, the DAW program Cakewalk, while it installs on the 9900X, does not function properly when executed. UA Connect, which is necessary to use UAD plugins, also fails to run. Since many programs, virtual instruments, and plugins rely on iLok License Manager, it is currently impossible to produce music on the 9900X.

I’ve seen other users on Reddit experiencing the same issues with the 9900X and 9950X. It’s surprising to see such problems with well-established programs like iLok and Cakewalk, which have been consistently updated and have run smoothly on any computer until now. I hope AMD can provide a solution to this issue soon.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

I was curious as to what Microsoft's Copilot would say on the issue, I ask what is the issue and could it really be called a Bug:

"

You make a valid point. The responsibility for ensuring software compatibility typically lies with the software developers, who should design their programs to work seamlessly with the operating system. The term “bug” might indeed be misleading in this context if the issue stems from how the software interacts with the firmware rather than a flaw in the CPU itself.

In the case of iLok, it seems the software might be relying on specific firmware functionalities that are not behaving as expected with the new Ryzen processors. This can create compatibility issues that appear to be hardware-related but are actually due to the software’s reliance on certain firmware behaviors.

It’s a complex interplay between hardware, firmware, and software, and resolving such issues often requires collaboration between CPU manufacturers, firmware developers, and software companies. Keeping an eye on updates from all involved parties is crucial."

No response yet from iloc or AMD about what is the plan to fix the issue.

[AP2]

I know there are relatively few of us who use the new 9000 series CPUs, but we need to find a way to make more noise about this or it will never get fixed. AMD, iLok, and the plugin developers seem to be content either ignoring the problem or blaming someone else.

If iLok and the devs truly think AMD is to blame, why are they not sending out an email to all of their customers warning them to not buy or build PCs using these CPUs? And when is AMD going to respond to all of this? This is truly a s-show.

[desmond_dales]

For me, this is pretty obvious. Ilok is still 32bit, installer looks like from xp times...i think they literally haven't changed or updated their software for more than a decade. This cannot be a cpu bug. The thing is that their pretty old software cannot properly address instructions in new processors. Maybe they fired all programmers long ago and now keep on posting this cpu bug nonesense. On the other hand, nowadays in these online days, there is no need to use ilok. Those plugin vendors who are not lazy has already developed their own licensing management. iLok was a good idea back then, but not for 20's. I only feel sad for SSL plugins...and still i hope pace hired some programmers to make a new ilok for 21st century

[Lukas108]

I think we need to write to news portals. They will willing to write about that. 

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Well here is the bigget issue I think. If Chat was right, the 277 billion company (AMD) might want to make the little company pay for 1. issuing a statement that wasn't true, and 2. Not happy that at a roll out point the little company tried to blame AMD for something in firmware that works with the operating system but not with that firms product (which may or may not be authorized to use a specific part of the firmware to make their product run). Hard to tell if AMD and iLoc are working on a solution or if the lawyers are lining up. The issue for us users is something call denial of service. All in all this could either be solved by iLoc and its customers changing things in software that rely only on the operating system, AMD and iLoc working together, or the courts deciding the issue who is responsible for the denial of service to use software the customers who bought the product assuming the product would working in the operating system (after all did iLoc publicize that their product would work only with specific firmware in CPU's - don't think so).  We are all small fish, however iLoc's customers (software providers) are the ones with a lot to lose in this situation. As long as we keep the issue alive by posting tech support requests as well as having discussions, well that is about all we can do.

[AP2]

I'm trying to think of ways to reach the big PC hardware channels, like Hardware Unboxed, JayzTwoCents, Linus Tech Tips, etc., as well as any big music production channels that would warn producers not to use the 9000 series AND not to buy iLok products. I think that's the only thing that can light a fire under those companies.

[Dotje]

I pitched this a while back, but crickets.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Just keep communicating with the firms involved, that way they know the issue won't go away.

[AP2]

I'm trying to, but AMD has been ignoring me and iLok is just pretending they have nothing to do with it.

[Lukas108]

"Thank you for your feedback. I completely understand.

Good news is AMD is in contact with us now on this Zen 5 only issue so progress is actively being made. Our hope is to have the issue resolved soon then later.

We will keep you posted." 

Info from PACE. 

[giacomopasquali]

I received a response from AMD Customer Care. I had reached out to them about 7 days ago.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Giacomo,

Thank you for reaching out to us.

We acknowledge the issue you've been experiencing with iLOK and Ryzen 9000 series processors and we're currently looking into it. If we require any further details from you, we'll reach out through another email.

We'll keep you updated on any developments regarding this matter through this service request.

We appreciate your patience and understanding during this time.

Best Regards,
Matt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks they're confirming they're aware of this

[AP2]

I received an identical response today. Not good enough imo. No timetable, no specifying what steps they are making to solve it, and all of these companies should issue an official warning to not buy the 9000 series or not use iLok plugins until this is resolved. 99% of music producers and composers use iLok plugins and allowing them to purchase and build new PCs without disclosing this info is extremely shady.

[Musicmad]

I was just about to buy a 9900x audio workstation and found this thread! Will park that for moment!

Someone mooted above that the 9000 series has avx512.

Has anyone tried disabling avx512 in the bios to see if that helps for now?

[Lukas108]

Good idea. My 9950X is out of the box. So, maybe anyone else here? 

[misterj]

Musicmad, I mooted that above and am checking how to do what you suggested. Thanks, John.

[desmond_dales]

well i think zen4 - 7xxx processors has axv512 too.

[Chilli_Dock]

Very Sure. 7950x does have AVX512 but hasn't brought us any Plugin lotteries so far?

[Lukas108]

Zen 4 has AVX512 but executed as 2x 256bit

[Chilli_Dock]

Thanks for sharing Lukas, you really dive deep.

[desmond_dales]

Well, having the same issues on my ryzen 7 9700x (**bleep**, i should really go with my first idea - ryzen 9 7900) and...looking at ilok...come on guys. Ilok license manager (or pace license support??  **bleep**, installer has different name than the app...) has got a pretty old spaghetti code. It's installed in x86 program files folder so it means it's 32bit. Ok...still should work but, look at the installer itself...it looks the same as 15 or 20 years ago. Because it is basically the same. And this is the problem. There is no surprise that this ancient spaghetti code has a problem to address instructions on new processors. I think that ilok has fired all programmers long ago...but hopefuly they hired some new and skilled ones, who are working on the 21st century license manager for us.

[reutech]

Is there a bios update for your mainboard that include the latest AGESA update?  V 1.2.0.2 does some stuff to decrease latency between CCXs.  Since this is the 12 core part I'm hoping that might help.

[desmond_dales]

and what about my 8core cpu (ryzen7 9700x) with the same ilok problem...

[martel80]

I bought all my parts to build a new PC based on the 9700x and now I find this....

So it's been a month in the making and no one released a fix to those issues yet ?

That's ridiculous.

it will be my first AMD build in over 2 decades and I already feel this will be my last EVER.

What a complete mess on all front.

First, I was trying to convince myself that the 9700x would be just so much more efficient given the AVX 512 infrastructure support compared to the 7700x but then I saw the real world benchmark from Scan Audio here:
https://www.scanproaudio.info/2024/09/12/5075/

Then, I told myself, well , at least the temperatures will be lower so I will be able to push it a bit more with the 105W TDP mode.

But now that I'm about to receive all my parts, I am made aware that there's a bug with the safety software (ILOK) that protect all my plugin software from piracy and I wont be able to use them including my Universal Audio software......

So I basically bought a SFF computer for my upcoming tour/trip and will be away from home for 6 months with a computer that will be useless.

WHAT A MISSED OPPORTUNITY AMD !!!

[OregonVideoPhotography]

I think you are blaming the wrong company. Hopefully now that all parties are actively working on this  work, it will not take more than a week or two to fix.

[martel80]

That would be weird to blame ilok if their system is working on other systems. It would also be weird to blame Universal Audio if their software also work on other systems.

Not to point out that the issue was raised over a month ago.

[OregonVideoPhotography]

Have you read all of the above posts, it's Pace claiming that there is a "bug" in the 9000 series firmware. Unless there is an agreement between Pace and AMD is it ok to reply on GPU firmware, it been an industry standard to code to the operating system is my understanding.

[martel80]

Is it Legal to rely on part of a CPU (Corrected) Firmware ?

I mean, how do you think software work in relation to a CPU ?

Those CPU instructions were thrown out to meet a release date and even the gaming community experienced massive disappointment in performance when released as the 9000 series would match the 7000 series performance. They did an update a month later with a 105 cTDP that brought an increase of about 15% in performance compared to the 7000 series.

That's a butch job. Lets call a spade a spade.

If there's no bug in the firmware of this whole 9000 series, please explain why over 50 plugin manufacturers now have their plugin obsolete because they all crash when opening? This is not a ilok / Pace exclusive issue. Those CPU are close to useless to music production in their current state.

No to point out that it's not happening in ANY other generation OR brand of CPU....

[AP2]

I'm not sure who is to blame but you can also argue the reverse - All non-iLok plugins and authorization managers seem to be working fine with the new Zen 5 CPUs, so clearly it's an iLok issue. Personally, I don't care who is to blame as long as they fix the issue. What's bothering me is that all companies involved seem to be either blaming the other side or ignoring it altogether and sitting on their hands.

[martel80]

Universal Audio Native plugins (UA Connect) are not PACE or Ilok driven and they also don't work.

Same for Soundtoys.

[misterj]

martel80, please post the errors they are getting including Event Viewer. John.

[martel80]

That's going to be in a support ticket once answered bud'.

[misterj]

martel80, this is a User forum. We do not have access to support requests. John.

[martel80]

Which is the reason for my answer. That issue was already submitted to AMD. I am still waiting for their answer. It's nothing personal.

[misterj]

martel80, it is really difficult to offer an opinion with no information. John.

[martel80]

Totally understandable. May I suggest you have a look at the 135 replies preceding this message and form an opinion....

[misterj]

martel80, I have been here since the beginning and have seen only two errors explicitly identified, 2001 and 1067. These are from the failing software and I do not know what they mean. I need to see Event Log errors. John.

[AP2]

I don't use UA so I don't know what's the deal with them, but Soundtoys is very much iLok driven.

[martel80]

No it's not anymore unless you force yourself into it.

https://support.soundtoys.com/article/37-who-needs-an-ilok-account

On a second but important note, shout out to Matt at AMD for his answer:

''Thank you for reaching out to us.

We acknowledge the issue you've been experiencing with iLOK and Ryzen 9000 series processors and we're currently looking into it. If we require any further details from you, we'll reach out through another email.

We'll keep you updated on any developments regarding this matter through this service request.

We appreciate your patience and understanding during this time.

Best Regards,
Matt''

That's what I call being accountable. A moral virtue that is lost so often these days.

Hats off to him.

I cant believe I just said that. In what sort of world are we living in....

[Lukas108]

"https://support.soundtoys.com/article/37-who-needs-an-ilok-account"  

I asked Sound Toys if we can avoid iLok. They said NO.  You don't have to create iLok account, but the app/system still must be used for activation. 

[martel80]

True but you can still not use ilok as a software and the plugins still wont work.

The point is, the culprit of it all is not ilok but the CPU instructions.