PC Graphics

[colesdav]

RDNA2, RDNA Refresh, and "Big Navi" Launch and Reviews.

It looks like it will not be long before real information will start to get released about RDNA2 and "Big Navi". 

I am opening this thread to capture information about RDNA2, RDNA Refresh, and Big Navi Launch and Reviews.

I will only include information such as:

Benchmarks or Reviews of XBOX Series X and PS5 which include "RDNA2" GPU.

Information released by AMD on RDNA2 and Big Navi.

Information about any "RDNA Refresh" of the RX5000 series GPUs.

Benchmark data from AMD and YouTube Benchmarks and Reviews.

I will be watching out for the information and reading reviews anyhow so I will post data here if I see it.

If anyone has useful data such as described above then can you please add information here?

Please avoid wild speculations from "Tech YouTubers" who seem to make outrageous performance improvement claims based on "rumours" from "reliable leakers".

They often seem to yoyo their conclusions on a weekly basis just to get better viewing numbers or deny their predictions were complete rubbish when they get it wrong, and huff about it.

[black_zion]

https://wccftech.com/amds-big-navi-gpu-codenamed-sienna-cichlid-will-allegedly-feature-5120-stream-processors/

[colesdav]

Some Big Navi Marketing.

Big Navi Easter Egg in Fortnite Map:
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-big-navi-easter-egg-discovered-in-fortnite-map 

[colesdav]

Microsoft Boldly Outs DirectX 12_2 Feature Support For AMD Big Navi, Intel Xe-HPG And Qualcomm GPUs

https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-leaks-upcoming-gpus-dx-support 

[colesdav]

I think this technical video is worth watching: 
RDNA 2: The Path Towards the Next Era of Graphics - YouTube 

[colesdav]

Zen3 and RDNA2.
October 8th 2020.

https://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1303725578160349185?s=20 

htthttps://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1303725578160349185?s=20ps://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1303725578160349185?s=20
https:https://twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1303725578160349185?s=20//twitter.com/LisaSu/status/1303725578160349185?s=20

[colesdav]

Radeon RDNA2 - looks like October 28th 2020 for information.
https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1303726639013036033?s=20 
https://https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1303726639013036033?s=20twitter.com/Radeon/status/1303726639013036033?s=20

[black_zion]

It boggles the mind AMD isn't announcing something now. This close to launch date, about two months from when cards will be on store shelves, AMD should have already sent final approval to TSMC weeks ago to start making RDNA2 chips, so they know how it's going to perform at the base level with early driver software. AMD is already late to the party, by the time they arrive people are going to forget they are invited.

[colesdav]

Announcing Zen3 first make sense to me.
Lots of people waiting for information on Zen3 performance and pricing and motherboards before they decide to do new PC builds on Zen3 or stick with older Zen2.

I think it is a bad idea to announce both the new Zen3 and the RDNA2 GPUs in one event.

Delaying RDNA2 announcement until October 28th gives time for RTX3000 series reviews and benchmarks to complete, as RTX3070 is launching some time in October 2020.

This could be interpreted as meaning that the highest performing RDNA2 GPU will only compete with the RTX2080Ti/RTX3070 but that may be wrong.

[black_zion]

This may change things. According to Chinese based tech media outlet, TecLab, the 3080 has tested to be 30% faster than the 2080 Ti. If that's true, then RDNA2 may have a chance, but that would have to mean RDNA2 is substantially faster than RDNA1, on the order of twice as fast...

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-graphics-card-benchmarks-game-performance-leak/

[colesdav]

That WCCFTECH post is under Hardware:Leak:Rumour, and they say:
"it should be pointed out that based on TecLab's previous benchmarking coverage, these latest tests should be taken with a slight pinch of salt. "

It is a rumour based on this original article:
https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-geforce-rtx-3080-graphics-card-test-leaks-online 

 In that article it says:

"The leakers claim to own a sample and a working driver, which is currently only available to the press after signing a strict NDA."

"It is worth noting that this channel has already been caught using fake review samples and publishing a review earlier (they hid the name of the Ryzen processor). This time leakers do not show any review sample, so we cannot confirm if they really tested the card. Either way, take the results with a grain of salt."

Based on all of the above I do not think it is worth discussing at all.

TecLab appear to have broken an NDA with Nvidia, seem to have a track record of posting fake reviews.

Looks worse than Yoyo YouTuber "Experts" to me. 

It will not be long until more real reviews get posted.
So far the only one I have seen of the RTX3080 is from Digital Foundry, but they only tested a small sample of games and were not allowed to publish FPS numbers, only relative performance.

[black_zion]

Hence the "If it is true" in my post, and of course performance is going to vary significantly from a reference edition to the custom cards, so it's going to be all down to what is compared to what.

[colesdav]

RX6000 Series GPU Design just posted on Radeon RX Twitter:

[colesdav]

Some more information and discussion about the cooler render here:
Here's what AMD DIDN'T show you on their 6000 Series Radeon GPUs - YouTube 

[colesdav]

Big Navi in Fortnite @ 4K Epic Settings. - YouTube 
Yes I am bored to death today, so I took a look at it.
The video was recorded at 4K, and is still processing. You can view it at 1080p now.
Video shows you how to get to the GPU Shroud Design and the "AMD" areas.
Never know I might find the full GPU specs, Pricing, and Benchmark results there...
I took a look to see if AMD are using POSCAPS or MLCC but I cannot tell.
I got inside the the card but I cannot see the PCB or GPU.

[colesdav]

Real data, Real Video, on RDNA2.

PS5 Teardown: PS5 Teardown: An up-close and personal look at the console hardware - YouTube 

[colesdav]

AMD's RX 6000 GPU benchmarks put it seriously close to Nvidia's RTX 3080. Maybe even ahead | PC Game... 

"But one of the reasons those numbers might look very different on our own rigs is because, if AMD's CPU performance numbers ring true, and the Ryzen 9 5900X is, on average 26 percent quicker than the Ryzen 9 3900X, that will have a big impact on our own Nvidia numbers. 

In my testing, at 4K, the 10700K is some 5 percent quicker than the 3900X in gaming tests. If we're conservative in our Ryzen 5000 performance bumps and suggest a 4K fps boost of just 10 percent over the Intel chip, that still puts the RTX 3080 ahead even in Borderlands 3."

[colesdav]

AMD Teases RX 6000 Performance: Big Navi Looks close to the RTX 3080 | Tom's Hardware 

[colesdav]

The response to the RX 6000 series "reveal" remind me of the Vega FE launch when it turned out EVEN THE LIQUID COOLED 16GB VERSION  didn't beat the GTX 1080 8GB in gaming.

The AMD Radeon Vega Frontier Edition 16GB Liquid-Cooled Review - PC Perspective 

There are many AMD fans on Reddit and elsewhere coming up with lots of scenarios trying to explain why RX6000 series, even running on the best Gaming GPU (R9 5900) cannot beat an RTX3080.

Apparently there is Bigger Navi now...

[colesdav]

Summary of Launch Slides here:
RX 6000 Series Launch Summary Slides in 3 minutes. - YouTube 

[colesdav]

Performance 4K versus RTX2080Ti, RTX 3080, RTX 3090
RX6800XT = $649 AMD Claim ~ RTX3080 performance.

RX6800 = $579 AMD Claim ~ RTX2080TI Performance.
RX6900XT = $999 AMD Claim ~ RTX3090 performance.

[black_zion]

No way I would ever consider a Radeon card nor recommend a Radeon card at those price levels. They're effectively the same as nVidia as these are just reference prices, they don't support the same features nVidia supports (DLSS, nVidia Broadcast, etc...), they don't have the same history of support nVidia has with major issues potentially existing for months, they have higher power consumption...

Seriously, how does AMD think this is a good idea? Oh, right, miners will buy them all...

Perhaps Intel will be the savior of the GPU market...

[colesdav]

I thought the presentation was very weak.
Radeon Anti-Lag is useless compared to Nvidia offering.
Radeon Boost is in no state to promote.
No detail or demo of RayTracing Support which tells me ... it is not ready.

RAGE mode is a very appropriate term to use for AMD Auto Overclocking because that is what it causes when it BSODS or does nothing.
Should not be allowed to get away with presenting overclocked GPU numbers versus stock RTX3080/3090 cards.

Not sure what Smart Memory Access is, but if it is something like HBCC where some DRAM is assigned as a " VRAM cache" I do not  see it getting supported on more than a few games if it is anything like HBCC it will be dropped like a brick.

Not impressed.

At 300 Watts in that  Radeon 7 Cooler with the side blower fins it is going to be another hot and loud GPU from AMD.

[colesdav]

I see Sapphire just launched a new Navi 10 GPU in small form factor.
Do you think AMD will now drop Navi 10 completely or there will be lower cost RX5700XT cards?
Do you think they will do a Navi 10 refresh?

[black_zion]

AMD previously stated there would be a Navi Refresh, but then they said RDNA2 would be a complete product stack replacement, so I'm not sure what to think other than RTG is a complete mess, and AMD isn't at all interested in competing, just keeping a minor presence and hoping miners buy the whole stock. There could possibly be a Navi Refresh for the "lower end" market, but when it's competing against nVidia putting out Ampere from top to bottom, it wouldn't make much sense.

Either way their stock has taken two major hits in the last week, the first when their announced their $35 billion purchase, and the second today, so Wall Street is totally unimpressed by the RX 6000 series as well, no doubt because they cost twice as much as they should be sold for.

[black_zion]

Best Buy already has the 3070's listed for tomorrow's opening event, and looks like prices will vary between $500 and $570. Considering we know from third party reviews that the 3070 matches the 2080 Ti in performance, why in the world would anyone ever consider the RX 6800 for $580?

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&browsedCategory=abcat0507002&id=pcat17071&iht=n&ks=960&list=y&qp=gpusv_facet%3DGraphics+Processing+Unit+(GPU)~NVIDIA+GeForce+RTX+3070&sc=Global&st=categoryid%24abcat0507002&type=page&usc=All+Categories&nrtv_cid=c63287331ecb189f810c97e08905d8a9be35d0dee397f01c45bbd7ab296b726c&subId2=future&subId3=1722191439251282761&subId1=

[colesdav]

RAGE mode increases the power slider and sets a more agressive fan curve ... for 1-2% performnce gain...

[colesdav]

DXR implementation 1.0 and 1.1 are supported.
Custom RTX or Proprietary or Vulkan Ray Tracing will not work...

[pokester]

They question is though how many games actually conform to that standard as is. How many existing games will have to be updated to support it?

[colesdav]

No game compatibility for Real Time Ray Tracing was mentioned yet.

[ajlueke]

Well, if the RTX 3070 stock is anything like the RTX 3080/3090 "launch", people might go with an RX 6800 because, well, it is available?

[black_zion]

I don't think so for six reasons:

1. Only reference edition cards will be available at launch, per AMD, and AMD reference editions have a track record of being horrid.
2. AMD's track record of Day 1 drivers, or even Month 1 drivers, is incredibly terrible.
3. RX 6000's ability to handle ray tracing in all popular current games, from Minecraft on up, is unknown.
4. Stores will be having "Black Friday Deals" the entire month of November.
5. Next generation consoles are up for release, and will require about $750 investment just to get started.
6. RX 6000 series is too expensive.

Consoles and Black Friday Deals aside, the top three are very reasonable, and dropping in excess of $500 on a new release reference edition card from AMD is very, very risky.

[pokester]

I agree the pricing is too high. If they want to earn marketshare and more importantly faith again from their lost base they need to price better. 

[black_zion]

[black_zion]

I do also love these pair of graphics, where it shows that the 6800XT isn't always faster than the 3080 even in AMD's own tests, but even if you buy a $500+ Ryzen 5000 series processor and a 500 chipset motherboard, again another "F YOU!" to all of us who had the audacity to support AMD early and believe them when they said every AM4 processor would be supported, it's STILL not always faster, AND it costs essentially the same amount of money. It's like they're just giving people every excuse to buy Ampere...

[colesdav]

RAGE mode is setting the power slider above 0% and adjusting the fan profile up according to Gamers Nexus Information it is worth 2% performance uplift.
Power slider on RX Vega 64 Liquid and RX5700XT goes to +50% ,,, that is a lot of extra power to feed into the GPU,

[pokester]

The 5xx chipset is a joke. The b550 pulls all its pcie 4 support from the cpu not the chipset. No reason that if a b550 chipset can gain from the pairing that an B450 or X470 can't other than AMD wants to make you buy a new board. I am pretty much betting though that this extra performance ends up not amounting to much when real 3 parties put it to the test. 

[colesdav]

Correction - typo - RX6700 = $579 AMD Claim ~ RTX2080TI Performance.

[devilzzz]

I don't know why people thought AMD would not come through with competitive cards as they would not come out and say it and destroy their reputation for good.  I heard enough of that and glad we are getting close to the release of the cards.  Thing is though the idea that competition would bring about better pricing sure doesn't start now.  Their pricing only really makes sense in the U.S. and nowhere else.  I knew AMD would just turn into the bad guy like Nvidia.  They are a company and have shareholders to please.  Now is it better having AMD competing with Nvidia?  Yes.  How will that change pricing in the future?  We will see but I don't hold my hopes up for anything significant.  It was hard enough to stomach paying $675 or so including tax (Canadian) for an RX 5700 XT and now this.  Sorry but pc gaming is becoming something for the very well off.

[pokester]

I am not surprised at AMD coming back here with a much more competitive product. I was absolutely hoping they would do just that. 

I don't think the pricing makes sense here. I don't think they are priced to win back market share. While it appears they really have a fast card on their hands they need more than that. If this was even one more generation in the future where they have deservedly earned back market share and had really good feature parity and stable drivers then similar price points makes total sense to me. 

AMD is NOT coming from there. They have had a lot of lost faith the past couple years. RDNA while a good architecturally was a good leap forward in speed has to this day a lot of problems and you need look know further than these forums to see that. I very much hope the RDNA2 silicon fixes these issues that apparently the driver have not been able to . 

I think cheaper pricing would just put these cards into a lot more hands of those on the fence. 

I know I would very much think about a 6800 non xt if the price was closer to $500. I could overlook its short comings. As a user who has a 2070 super and realizes that most of the games that really stress that card at 4k that I play do have DLSS and that feature makes them playable at 4k. So between driver stability and maturity and still some features that so far have not proved to be equaled by team red, in my mind still makes me hesitate thinking the 3070 at 80 bucks cheaper may be the better buy. At 500 for a 6800 it would be a no brainer for me, and more worth the risk of giving red another chance.