No Drivers installed after DDU in Safe mode FYI ...
Hi,
Thanks for replying. I have been updating my OS drives anyhow as you probably see, and I decided to continue look at this for you.
I had thought about ULPS but if you have done a clean driver install with DDU then I would expect the driver installation to be O.K. anyhow.
Not been an issue for me for long time since Catalyst Drivers.
I think the 18.03 upgrade from 17.09 is a mess w.r.t AMD Drivers.
.Windows 10 64 18.03 upgrade is installing a wide range of older Display Drivers during the upgrade, depending on what GPU is installed.
Sometimes it installs full AMD Settings, sometimes just the driver.
Radeon Performance Overlay can only show GPU Metrics 1 at a time.
You have to select GPU1 or 2 in the Performance Metrics Options in the Alt R Menu.
Can you post your corresponding screens to the following please?
In your case you will have Global Wattman - Wattman is not supported for HD7970/R9280x cards.
Please reset your Global Wattman Profiles to default for your RX 580 cards.
Can I ask you to check that you are only running to one primary screen and that you do not have an extended display setup?
Have you looked at the performance of Overwatch using each separate GPU?
You can do that by Disable crossfire. Connect a display cable from each GPU to a monitor inputs.
Then set one screen or the other as primary display, and launch Overwatch.
This should tell you if there is anything wrecked w.r.t the PCIe bandwidth.
Did you try a 3DMark Firestrike Demo with Crossfire off versus on?
Thanks.
So I would say the difference in performance between the two cards is maybe 5%-10%. I'll post the screenshots here but I may have to get back to you about 3DMark. I haven't tried replacing the PSU yet. I was thinking about finding one in a nearby store but if I did I should probably find one that is also at-least 850W just to be sure and none of the nearby stores have one above 750W so I may have to order it...
Hi,
Just completed testing i7-4770K @ stock 32GB Ram, GPU1 HD7970 OC 6GB Primary. R9 280x OC 3GB Secondary.
PCIe2.0x8 for Primary. PCIe2.0x4 secondary.
Verified & Checked Windows 10 64bit 18.03.
Verified and checked Overwatch installation.
DDU in Safe mode and reinstall of AMD Adrenalin 18.4.1.
I found a Crossfire performance problem this time in Overwatch.
As before I tested Epic Settings, 1080p, Overwatch "in game" performance monitoring on.
I tested Create Game with AI, Anubis Map.
Crossfire runs fine but the Crossfire scaling is slightly less than 1.0 this time, with both of the GPUs running at +50% Power Setting.
This might be down to the fact that the HD7970 OC 6GB card has 6GB Vram which shows as almost filled with Crossfire off.
In DX11 Crossfire, the GPU Vram available is limited to the lowest value of both cards. In this case 3GB Vram of the R9 280x is the limitation.
I did want to purchase a 6GB R9 280x to avoid this limitation but they are only made by MSI and XFX and not available at the time.
Note that Overwatch minimum system requirements do specify 4GM of VRAM, so this may be the reason for the performance drop. It may see my Primary card has 6GB of VRAM and assume the secondary is matched at 6GB but it is not.
Here are the Overwatch System Requirements: Overwatch System Requirements - Blizzard Support
Here are a list of supported and unsupported cards: Overwatch Supported Video Cards - Blizzard Support
This is interesting list since it has HD7900 and R9200 series cards listed, when many of those cards have 3GB Vram.
In any case.
With Crossfire off I see about 80 - 90 FPS at the start of the map.
With Crossfire on I see slightly lower FPS, maybe 78-85 at that point.
So ... The 3GB Vram does not seem to be a problem, and the game reports it uses < 3GB even on Epic 1080p.
Note: These cards do not support Bridgeless Crossfire, they have a Crossfire Bridge connecting each card.
With Crossfire on, if I Alt R to start the Radeon Overlay the Overwatch "in game" performance monitoring reports a significant drop in FPS.
With Crossfire on, If I Cntr-Shift O to start the Radeon Overlay the Overwatch "in game" performance monitoring also reports a significant drop in FPS.
Crossfire off, with HD7970 does not suffer same performance dip.
I will check Crossfire off, driven from the R9 280x in the PCIe2.0x4 slot next and check if it will run.
I just wanted to get this information to you ASAP, before you order a new >=850W PSU...
In my previous testing with low PCIe bandwidth using Windows 8.1 64bit and R9 FuryX Primary running at PCIe2.0x8 Crossfired with R9 Nano in Thunderbolt 2.0. Enclosure, the Radeon Overlay and the Performance Overlay would not activate. That does happen sometimes even with High Bandwidth PCIe speeds without using Thunderbolt 2.0 eGPU. However it might be a limitation of using Thunderbolt 2.0. In any case I could not have seen the Crossfire Scaling problem in that case.
I will try to generate and upload a Video demonstrating the problem next. I might have to use another program than ReLive to record it. It may take some time.
I have not seen any crashing at launch.
I have seen "Freezing" of my PC System but only if I exit Overwatch, leaving the Battle.net App running, and use AMD Crossfire off->on switch before the Play Button on the Battle.net App turns blue (i.e. the game is still shutting down and I go from Crossfire off to Crossfire on). I have seen this before with the other PC System I tested. Some times it recovers. Sometimes it requires PC reset.
I will file an AMD Reporting form for this issue.
You can do that here:
However since HD 7970 and R9 280x are old cards and the R9280x Vram is 3GB the attention level to this may be sub zero.
I will request that someone looks into this issue on Overwatch with low PCIe bandwidth, and I will point to this thread in the problem report.
I will request they either fix the Radeon Overlay and Performance Monitoring Bug, or if it is inherently due to the low bandwidth then disable them so the game is still playable with high FPS even with Crossfire on. .
Can you please try the following with your RX580 and RX 480.
1. Make sure your Windows 10 64bit 18.03 is updated and run Windows installation checks to make sure your sytem is clean.
If you need advice about that, send me a message and we can discuss offline.
2. With your PC running, no Apps running. Turn off Crossfire in AMD settings.
3. Launch Blizzard.net and Scan and Repair your game files using this:
4. Download and install the latest version of DDU for Windows 10 64 bit and run it in safe mode to uninstall your existing driver.
(if you have been having System crashing / hang you may have corrupted your existing driver so please do this).
5. Download an install the Windows 10 64 bit 18.4.1. Driver from AMD Drivers Download page and install it, (including ReLive please).
6. Boot up your PC.
7. Please make sure you do not start the Radeon Overlay using Alt R or start Recording with ReLive using Cntrl Shift O.
Please set the following in AMD Settings.
8. Crossfire should be on for a fresh installation since 2 cards are detected.
Please make sure you turn on AMD Crossfire Logo in Global Settings as shown.
9. Please launch Overwatch. Please set Graphics options to Epic, 1080p Fullscreen, Performance Monitor on, advanced options monitor FPS, GPU Temp, VRAM.
10. Make sure any Overwatch Game Profile is disabled in AMD Settings, please leave the crossfire profile at default.
Please just launch the game as is using the Battle.net App.
If it still crashes then I think you will need help from someone with a pair of RX580 or RX580+ RX 480 to look into this for you.
Please file an AMD Reporting form about this issue.
Then it might be time for you to open a support case with AMD about this.
Bye.
Hi,
I tested running Overwatch on low bandwidth PCIe system using the HD7970 OC 6GB card in Primary PCIe 2.0x8 connected to a monitor.
and R9 280x in PCIe 2.0x4 connected to a monitor.
I turned off Crossfire, powered down the PC removed the external Crossfire Bridge from the HD7970 OC 6GB Card and the R9 280x 3GB card.
I set up Windows 10 64bit 18.03 Display Settings to enable only the display connected to the R9 280x 3GB card initially.
I saw this on launching Overwatch:
Initially I thought that launch error was because the R9 280x only has 3GB of VRam.
It is not.
If I extend the displays to activate both monitors, Overwatch launches fine, and you can select which monitor it launches on in the Video Options.
It looks like the Overwatch launcher only checks if the Primary GPU Card is active and meets the minimum game requirements for VRAM.
Comparing the Overwatch performance of HD7970 OC 6GB versus R9 280X 3GB in Epic at 1080p with Crossfire Off in full screen mode.
I used Create game, AI, Anubis map.
Here is a quick screenshot of Overwatch running on the HD7970 OC 6GB at default Global Overdrive (GPU CLK, MEM CLK, Fan Speed) but with Power Limit maxed at +20%.
Sapphire HD7970 OC 6GB Vapor-X.
PCIe Slot 1 Bus Speed = PCIe2.0x8 : FPS 95 TEMP 82'C.
Here is a quick screenshot of Overwatch running on the R9 280x OC 6GB at default Global Overdrive (GPU CLK, MEM CLK, Fan Speed) but with Power Limit maxed at +50%. (The difference in Power Limit Maximum is because the R9 280x 3GB card is a "refresh" version, it generally runs cooler and faster and requires less power than the HD7970 OC 6GB card at the same clock speeds. It also supports additional hardware features like AMD TrueAudio.)
Sapphire R9 280X OC 3GB Vapor-X Tri-X.
PCIe Slot 2 Bus Speed = PCIe2.0x4 :FPS 95 TEMP 67'C.
I was unable to look at the effect of turning on Radeon Overlay or Performance Monitoring or run Relive Recording because extended display.
Once Overwatch launches, I can set Windows to display only the screen connected to the R9 280x, however, Overwatch will not display in Full Screen mode.
If I try to relaunch overwatch it gives the launch error described above
In summary, despite the even lower PCIe bandwitdh in the secondary PCIe Slot in this case, these cards perform almost identically in Overwatch.
The above performance is similar to the performance I see with the cards run in Crossfire, with Crossfire set off running at those very low PCIe2.0x8, PCIe2.0x4 bandwidths.Turning Crossfire on I see slightly under 1.0 scaling. Turning Crossfire on and enabling the Radeon Overlay, or Performance Monitor or Radeon Relive, I see the FPS performance drop significantly, as discussed before. However I have seen no crashing and no graphic corruption.
One thought I did have though.
My system was initially set up at PCIe3.0_8, PCIe3.0_8 bandwidth. I then ran DDU in Safe mode. I then downloaded and installed AMD 18.4.1 driver then reboot and test performance in Windows 10 64bit 18.03. I see Crossfire Options immediately in AMD Settings.
To run at reduced PCIe bandwidth, I power down the PC, connect a PCIe Hard Driver to the third PCIe slot on the motherboard (so I get PCIe3.0x8, PCIe3.0x4, PCIe3.0x4 automatically in BIOS). I then boot up, enter BIOS Settings, and reduce the PCIe Speed for the slots with the GPU's to Gen 2.0.
I will look to see what happens if I remove and reinstall the AMD 18.4.1 Driver with the above low PCIe Bandwidths set.
I would not expect to be able to enable Crossfire in this situation If I perform a Clean Install with PCIe 2.0x8, PCIe2.0x4 because the PCIe 2.0x4 bandwidth.
I will check to see if I see any performance issues or Graphics corruption installing the driver that way.
It is likely that Crossfire was not meant to be run on Overwatch with such low and missmatched PCIe bandwidths.
I see ~1.0x scaling with R9 Furyx/R9 Nano so far or just under 1.0 scaling with this HD7970 OC 6GB / R9 280x combination.
I see ~ 1.7 Scaling in Crossfire with R9 Furyx/R9 Nano running at PCIe3.0x8, PCIe3.0x8.
Checking all of the overwatch specs you CPU is better than the recommeded CPU, your GPU's meet spec.
Although your motherboard is Crossfire Ready, the PCIe Bandwidths are low.
Your Power Supply might have a problem, which might explain the crashing.
Even if the crashing is due to your power suplpy, you replace it, and get it to run without crashing I think you will see about 1.0 scaling like me, at these low PCIe bandwidths.
You might see the Radeon Overlay/Performance Monitor/ReLive FPS Drop issue in Crossfire like I found so far with the HD7970/R9280x Compo at these low bandwidths.
Getting a fix for Crossfire in Overwatch if we find a problem running on these low PCIe Bandwidths with RX480/580 might take months or even as year if it even gets considered.
I think you need to upgrade the motherboard so you can run the RX580/480 bot at higher PCIe3.0x8 speeds, and you will likely have to upgrade your CPU as well.
Alternatively you should sell them and purchase a single high end GPU.
If you just game, then I recommend the Zotac GTX 1080Ti Mini.
If you want AMD then the only card I would go for right now is a 2 slot high Powercolor Vega 56 Red Dragon 8GB if you can get it at low enough price.
Do not expect much of a performance uplift versus a single R9 Fury X in many games:
RX Vega 56 vs R9 Fury X || Comparison - YouTube
You might be able to flash the Vega 56 BIOS to increase Power & performance ... but I would not be comfortable with doing that personally.
I see the following quote from someone running overwatch "I'm playing Overwatch and I'm averaging about 100fps 1080p epic.".
That is roughly what I see on a single R9 Fury X.
Vega 56 cost as much as a GTX 1080 here.
You could be like me and simply decide that the only AMD cards worth buying right now are good condition second hand R9 Nano/Fury X at low price, but doing that recently has been a nightmare for me. You have to negotiate carefully, agree that you can return the card if it breaks within a short time period during initial testing. Card Warranty are null and void once the card is sold by the original purchaser. I do not intend to do this again.
I'm hoping for a lower power better performance single high end Desktop Vega GPU from AMD soon.
Was Crossfire automatically enabled when you performed a clean install on your motherboard with PCIe2.0x16, PCIe2.0x4 or did you enable it using other methods?
Bye.
Hi,
Here are a final couple of videos showing GTX780Ti running Overwatch at PCIe 3.0x16 and PCIe2.0x16 to give you some idea of what performance you would get. Overwatch EPIC 1080p GTX780Ti PCIe3.0x16 - YouTube
Overwatch EPIC 1080p GTX780Ti run at PCIe2.0x16 - YouTube
The CPU Utilization maxed out at 50% running with the Nvidia GTX780Ti card.
I was running Nvidia 397.64 Driver (Clean Install today).
You should be able to use this as a reference point if you do decide to look at Nvidia cards.
I think Radeon Adrenalin Software is much bettter User experience in general for recording, uploading and monitoring GPU performance than Nvidia offerings, but Afterburner works no problem with GTX780Ti so you could use that instead.
This CPU use is similar to single HD7970 OC 6GB running at about 50%.
Running the HD7970 and R9 280x in Crossfire did increase FPS but incurred additional CPU overhead, it hit around 70%.
The additional overhead is about 10% for Crossfire and about 10% for the increased FPS in Crossfire.
So that's it from me w.r.t. Overwatch Performannce on Crossfire versus PCIe bandwidth or single card.
The summary is, yes it scales well in Crossfire for R9 FuryX, R9 Nano with Bridgeless Crossfire (1.7x)and also works fine with HD7970 / R9280x with external Bridge Crossfire (1.5x), provided you have high PCIe Bandwidth (PCIe3.0x8, PCIe3.0x8) and your CPU can cope with the additional overhead from running Crossfire.
Dropping to PCIe2.0x8, PCIe2.0x4 gives Scaling of 1 for the R9 Nanos and less than 1 for the HD7970 OC 6GB cards.
Turning on the Radeon ReLive, Radeon Overlay or Radeon Perfomance monitor causes performance hit of about 30% fo rthe older HD7970/R9280x.
Please let me know what you decided to do in the end with your cards.
If you still have your MSI RX580 and XFX RX480 cards then I would be very grateful if you could post plots showing default Wattman Profiles for both of the cards which show the Frequency and Voltages for each of the Power States please.
Here is an example of what I am looking for:
If you click on the Frequency button it should show the individual frequency for each power state.
Similarly if you click on the voltage button it will show the voltage states on both cards.
Anyhow, I hope you find a solution that works for you without having to buy an new motherboard with high PCIe bandwidth and CPU.
Thanks.
