PC Graphics

[216cra]

Hi,

Please could you advise what the best graphics card is for my application.

I have a Radeon Pro WX 5100 installed in the Mantiz MZ-03 and it is not allowing a 3rd 4K to work properly, says no signal. My 1st & 2nd 4k Benq monitors work connected with a thunderbolt 3 to my mac mini but not my 3rd 4k LG monitor connected via display port/thunderbolt 3 cable.

I own the following for my home office. I work as a project manager for construction and am always reviewing large scale drawings and renderings and prefer to work on large 4k monitors. The speed of viewing and opening windows is the time sensitive portion of my work I’m streamlining.  

 MacMini 2018 (purchased 9/15/2020)
- 3.2 GHz 6-core intel Core i7
- 64 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
- intel UHD graphics 630 1536 MB
- 2TB SSD

Mantiz MZ-03 Saturn Pro eGPU

- Thunderbolt 3 MacOS/Windows/Intel Thunderbolt

- Certified External GPU with SATA3 2.5” SSD/HDD bay *1 

- SD Card reader * 1,USB 3.0*5 Gigabit Lan*1

- Dual TB3 chip manage GFX & extra IO

two (2) BenQ PD3220U

- 32 inch 4K Monitor IPS, HDR, AQCOLOR

- Display P3, DCI-P3, sRGB, Rec.709

- ICC sync, Thunderbolt 3 for Mac users  

One LG 27UD58-B 

- 4K UHD (3840 x 2160) IPS Monitor

- Freesync

- On-Screen Control

- Screen Split 2.0

- Game Mode & Black Stabilizer

[fsadough]

Are you connecting 2x BenQ monitors directly to your MacMini and 1x LG monitor to WX5100 on the eGPU?

• If so, why?
• What are you trying to achieve with this combination?
• Why don't you connect all 3x monitors to the WX5100?
• What are the exact cables and adapters used?

[216cra]

Hi, Thank you for your reply.

Below are my responses.

Please advise:

*if I upgrade from WX5100 to a W5700

<https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-w5700> would

that improve the eGPU performance with my Mac mini?*

Right now no matter which way I plug in everything my Mac mini stalls at

re-booting after I type in my password. It doesn’t remember which monitor

is the primary one or their orientations. I have one BenQ display set to 90

degrees and when I reboot the other monitor appear at 90.

I could use the W5700 thunderbolt 3 port to daisy chain between the BenQ

displays if the Mac mini will never let more than 2x 4K monitors to work.

The LG would connect to my Mac mini.

*Are you connecting 2x BenQ monitors directly to your MacMini and 1x LG

monitor to WX5100 on the eGPU?*

I am connecting all three monitors to my Mac mini. No monitors to my eGPU.

- If so, why?

I moved into a new home this past weekend and designed a new home office

for it. The new design includes a motorized standing desk from Vari

(60”x30”).

I want to keep the weight load below 200 lbs and keeping the eGPU on a

shelf below. The Mac mini is mounted to the underside of the desk.

My research for purchasing the Mantiz and Radeon card yielded that I only

needed a thunderbolt 3 connection to the eGPU to the Mac mini and then

connect all the monitors to my Mac mini. That is where I conceived the

idea. I’d only have to use the eGPU ports for additional monitors once

the Mac mini ports were used up. Senior apple support and OWC support

advised me of this.

The eGPU would remove any 4k monitor display limits on the Mac mini’s intel

UHD graphics card.

I’ve always had issues with any Mac using adobe and/or viewing large size

PDFs on 2k-4k displays and want to resolve the problem.

- What are you trying to achieve with this combination?

Reduce weight load and cable complexity for the standing desk. Have the

option to stand or sit while I work.

- Why don't you connect all 3x monitors to the WX5100?

I had wanted to reduce the complexity of cables going up and down by

connecting to the Mac mini only, which is mounted under the desk. The eGPU

will be on a shelf below the desk, does not go up and down with the desk.

Using DisplayPort cables in place of thunderbolt 3 cables felt like a step

backwards and under utilizing the performance of the BenQ thunderbolt 3 4K

monitors.

- What are the exact cables and adapters used?

All of my thunderbolt 3 cables are (40gbps/100watt) from Startech and

Belkin for the BenQ 4K and Mac mini to eGPU.

My LG does not have a USB-C port so I am using DisplayPort (LG) to

thunderbolt 3 (Mac mini) cable from Startech. This is the only adapter in

the mix. It pushes the 4k signal without issue typically when there are not

multiple monitors.

On September 30, 2020 at 5:33:33 AM, fsadough (amd-external@jiveon.com)

[pokester]

Make sure you are following the specs given from apple. You may not be using the correct adapter needed to hook all that up. If you have not tried driving it all from the EGPU, that may prove to be the better way to handle this. 

Connect multiple displays to your Mac mini (2018) - Apple Support 

[216cra]

Thank you for that link to Apple.

I had heard that discussed in forums about the bus1/0 and 2x 4k limit but

never saw that Apple support link. All my time with Apple to date about it

they never provided that link.

That explains my issue. It is a Mac mini hardware limitation and nothing to

do with apple software/OS or eGPU performance

On September 30, 2020 at 12:24:55 PM, pokester (amd-external@jiveon.com)

[pokester]

I have used mac since its inception but have never used an external gpu with one yet. So not sure how adding one affects how many the mac mini supports. My guess would be not at all if you are connecting to the mac mini. Possibly okay if you connect all to the egpu which is likely your best bet. I however don't know there either. Whatever you figure out make sure to post what worked or didn't. Your experience may help another user like yourself. 

[216cra]

Hi,

I purchased and installed a Radeon Pro W5700 into my Mantiz MZ-03 housing.

It is working without issue with my mac mini connected via startech thunderbolt3 40gbps/100watt cable using the thunderbolt port on the Mantiz MZ-03 housing.

I connected my BenQ 32" 4K monitor PD3220U to the Radeon Pro W5700 thunderbolt port with the same startech thunderbolt3 40gbps/100wattt type cable and the BenQ monitor says no signal connected.

Is the thunderbolt 3 port on the Radeon pro 5700 designed to push a video signal to a 4k monitor?

Thanks,

216CRA

[fsadough]

Please see page 18 & 19 of your monitor's manual:
https://benqesupport.blob.core.windows.net/esupport/LCD%20MONITOR/UserManual/PD2720U/UM_EN_200529155... 

[216cra]

Hi fsadough,

Thank you for your previous support repliess. They were very helpful to understand.

I have a follow up question that Apple engineering deferred back to you.

I am running 10.15.7 MacOS.

How do I get the "PSP" to finish their hardware initialization?

What is the AMDRadeonController?

Do I need GPUDrivers to resolve this issue?

I installed a Radeon Pro W5700 into my MZ-03. Mantiz said they were compatible. OWC says the W5700 is compatible with Mac Mini 2018.

Since I installed the W5700 my mac mini crashes when I leave it to idle. I then have to turn off the eGPU, start up my mac again and then turn the eGPU on. If I leave the eGPU connected and operational when I turn the MacMini back on then the MacMini will accept my password but not complete finish rebooting and just stall.

Below is my crash report.

Thank you for any assistance you can offer,

C

panic(cpu 8 caller 0xffffff7f98a5847a): "[197:0:0]: FATAL ERROR: PSP has not finished hardware initialization!!! Status: bf878d0d
"@/AppleInternal/BuildRoot/Library/Caches/com.apple.xbs/Sources/GPUDriversAMD/GPUDriversAMD-3.10.18/Common/IONDRV/ATI/AMDUniversalFramebuffer/AMDUniversalFramebuffer/Controller/Controllers/AmdRadeonController.cpp:1670
Backtrace (CPU 8), Frame : Return Address
0xffffffa775663760 : 0xffffff801431a65d
0xffffffa7756637b0 : 0xffffff8014454a75
0xffffffa7756637f0 : 0xffffff80144465fe
0xffffffa775663840 : 0xffffff80142c0a40
0xffffffa775663860 : 0xffffff8014319d27
0xffffffa775663960 : 0xffffff801431a117
0xffffffa7756639b0 : 0xffffff8014ac1a6c
0xffffffa775663a20 : 0xffffff7f98a5847a
0xffffffa775663a30 : 0xffffff7f989079c2
0xffffffa775663cb0 : 0xffffff7f988cef14
0xffffffa775663d00 : 0xffffff7f988eed45
0xffffffa775663d20 : 0xffffff7f988eed15
0xffffffa775663d40 : 0xffffff7f988eeb67
0xffffffa775663d70 : 0xffffff7f97febfaa
0xffffffa775663e10 : 0xffffff7f97febd08
0xffffffa775663e40 : 0xffffff7f97ff2aeb
0xffffffa775663ee0 : 0xffffff8014a2d4fd
0xffffffa775663f30 : 0xffffff8014a2bdce
0xffffffa775663f70 : 0xffffff8014a2b3c6
0xffffffa775663fa0 : 0xffffff80142c013e
      Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
         com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(576.1)[1279CBF9-88F1-3EB4-9566-1085DBF6DF8B]@0xffffff7f97fe1000->0xffffff7f98031fff
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[44472E6F-8DA0-3B46-ADEF-AFF76EC6C6DB]@0xffffff7f94d12000
         com.apple.kext.AMDRadeonX6000Framebuffer(3.1)[4E9BF2CA-278D-3488-991C-538E1AE1B478]@0xffffff7f988c6000->0xffffff7f98cfbfff
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.4)[2956198D-24F2-3790-A9B2-1EAB9434B906]@0xffffff7f94d09000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.9)[44472E6F-8DA0-3B46-ADEF-AFF76EC6C6DB]@0xffffff7f94d12000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(576.1)[1279CBF9-88F1-3EB4-9566-1085DBF6DF8B]@0xffffff7f97fe1000
            dependency: com.apple.AppleGraphicsDeviceControl(5.2.6)[E04CD680-EC03-39ED-99C6-902C8495543F]@0xffffff7f980f6000

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task
Boot args: chunklist-security-epoch=0 -chunklist-no-rev2-dev

Mac OS version:
19H2

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 19.6.0: Mon Aug 31 22:12:52 PDT 2020; root:xnu-6153.141.2~1/RELEASE_X86_64
Kernel UUID: 05D51A3D-3A87-3FF0-98C3-9CF3827A3EDD
Kernel slide:     0x0000000014000000
Kernel text base: 0xffffff8014200000
__HIB  text base: 0xffffff8014100000
System model name: Macmini8,1 (Mac-7BA5B2DFE22DDD8C)
System shutdown begun: NO

[fsadough]

Please contact Mantiz for further support. I do not believe W5700 is supported with your eGPU. At least the documentation does not mention the new Radeon Pro W-Series.

FAQ - Mantiz 

What are the compatible graphic cards in macOS? 

AMD Radeon RX 470, RX 480, RX 570, RX 580 RX 590 Vega 56, Vega 64 Navi 5500,5600,5700 ( including all XT versions ), and Radeon Pro WX 5100, WX 7100 and WX9100

Do I need to install driver in macOS with qualified AMD Graphic cards? 

No, you don't need to do anything, with above qualified AMD Radeon Graphic cards, it just hot plug & play in macOS ( 10.15.3 or later ) 

How will I use eGPU in MacOS? 

Visit Apple eGPU " How to use eGPU with your MAC " 

[216cra]

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. I did ask Mantiz about compatibility for W5700

before purchasing. Below is mantiz response.

Awesome to hear. Thank you for reply

[fsadough]

There are no additional drivers required by AMD. You should contact Apple then and see what the bug report is about. 

[216cra]

I hear you.

I have sent to Apple engineering a couple of times and they say it is the

third party hardware and not their problem.

I’m trying again with Apple engineering.

Is this a common problem I am experiencing? Or a unique issue?

[fsadough]

I wouldn't know. The log is referring to the Apple built-in AMD driver, which should be debugged by Apple. But since this is happening on a third party device, they are not interested to pursue. Your other option is to push the problem thru Mantiz, they might be able to assist.

[216cra]

Thank you, I hear you.

The part you mention about Apple Built in AMD driver is a good way to

persuade them.

[216cra]

Hi fsadough,

I heard back from Apple when I sent them the suggestion that the issue is

with their driver for AMD.

Below is the responses about AMD PSP. I’m awaiting further info about the

AMD driver.

Please can you advise if the PSP in AMD’s video card is resolvable.

Thanks

The Apple engineer informed me that kernel panic is being caused by the The

PSP is the Platform Security Processor security processor in the AMD video

card. However, I have emailed him with information that you have provided

me that you got from AMD, and I am awaiting response.

[216cra]

Hi fsadough,

I’m checking to see if you have any feedback about AMD’s PSP causing the

kernel panic (Apple engineering’s comment from Oct 7).

Is there anyone I can resolve AMD’s PSP issue?

I have apple tech support trying to verify with apple engineering if they

expect to provide an updated driver for AMD that includes the W5700.

Before purchasing the W5700 I verified with Mantiz that it works with W5700

and I verified with OWC that the W5700 works with apple. AMD’s website

showed it was compatible as well.

I’m doing everything I can to get all the pieces to work in harmony.

At this time I need to reboot my Mac mini every time it goes to sleep. I

use this for work and it is taking away from my productivity. The W5700 is

really fast and helps but not enough for re-boots all day long.

Thank you,

Christian

On October 7, 2020 at 3:39:33 PM, Christian Amorello (216cra@gmail.com)

[216cra]

1 additional comment about AMD W5700 in a MZ-03 on a Mac mini 10.15.7.

Apple photos app crashes when I have it set to “prefer external GPU” under

general in “get info” about the app in applications folder.

I just re-installed my OS in effort to resolve the problem and photos works

when it is NOT set to prefer the eGPU. When it is set to the eGPU it

crashes when I try to make a photo larger (double click on it in photo

roll) Photos works with the eGPU when it is the photo roll. It only crashes

when I try to enlarge one photo with double clicking.

All other apps are set to the eGPU and are working well.

On October 13, 2020 at 9:48:39 AM, Christian Amorello (216cra@gmail.com)

[Ultra64]

I am experiencing the exact same issue as OP. System crashes while idle. I get the same crash report following startup after a crash.

I am a video editor increasingly working in 4k and sometimes 6k resolution, which prompted me to upgrade from a Radeon RX 570 to the W5700. I experienced no issues running the RX 570 but once I upgraded to the W5700, I started experiencing instability.

The crash on idle occurs both with my MacBook Pro 13" 2017 (Big Sur 11.1)  and MacBook Pro 16" Late 2019 (Catalina 10.15.7). I am using PowerColor Gaming Station eGPU enclosure, AMD Radeon Pro W5700 and two Samsung 4K displays connected via DisplayPort. I swapped the stock 550W power supply in the eGPU enclosure with an 800W PSU.

A workaround I found to avoid the crash on idle issue is to adjust system settings so that the Mac never goes to sleep.

Another issue since upgrading to the W5700 is that in Logic Pro, there are audio dropouts when playing back compositions when my USB audio interface is connected through any of the USB ports on my eGPU enclosure. Increasing the audio buffer to the max in Logic does not resolve the issue. The workaround here is to connect the audio interface directly to one of the other Thunderbolt ports on my Mac.

These workarounds are not ideal. If it's a bug in the driver, I hope a bugfix gets rolled out quickly.