PC Drivers & Software

[bobcamo]

Edit: the link below is to another post that is related to this which is the first one i posted on before making this one.
18.4.1 broke my windows

Hi, i already posted a comment to a related-ish post but figured i'd make a separate one as i have this problem and to be more specific of my build and such. also this way anyone having similar problems as i am can also jump in and hopefully this gets seen and fixed.

Build:
GPU: MSI R9 390 8GB Gaming Edition
CPU: AMD FX-8350

Ram: G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)

MoBo:  ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula-Z AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950

PSU: LEPA G1200-MA 1200W

SSD: Mushkin Enhanced Striker 2.5" 480GB

Anyways, since the i updated to windows 1803 i have had my PC get stuck on boot up in an infinite loading screen just before the windows log in screen. so far everything I've tried and found to make it work right has not worked. now, i do want people to know this til this is fixed, be cautious updating windows to the spring update... i'm unable to revert back to the previous build of windows. so i did manage to figure some things out or my pc wouldn't be usable right now. if you don't plan on playing or using graphical things, you can just uninstall the driver or uninstall then use windows update to find their driver which... kinda doesn't work well... but other wise the only thing i've been able to do is get into safe mode which works perfectly fine with or without the drivers. but i will have a copied and pasted comment i made from the last post that i finally figured out to work for me.

"Well, for anyone getting the same thing i am. only thing I've figured out that's been able to work is after installing the newest driver. then go into device manager(Fast way: Windows Key+X then M), go to "Display Adapters" click the drop down arrow on the left. right-click on your GPU(Mine shows as "AMD Radeon (TM) R9 390 Series"), Disable Device. then your able to restart normally and such. this can also be done in safe mode to get back to windows normally then once in windows just re-enable it and everything should run fine. but do not restart or turn off your PC before disabling it again other wise you'll have to enter safe mode again to do this. hopefully this helps anyone who needs it til what ever is going on is fixed."

Message was edited by: BOBCAMO CAMO

Edit:
changing the name of the title as so far it doesn't seem to be a AMD specific issue, for some it may be. but for my end it was a guess til testing and trial and error started. lots of searching and such indicates it's mainly the version of the OS build... if you read replies and such below this post, you'll see why.

OP Name: Windows 10 Spring Update 1803 and AMD drivers not working. unable to load windows.

Message was edited by: BOBCAMO CAMO

Message was edited by: Matt B

We have updated the title of this discussion with relevant details to better describe your issue.

[binay_dear]

Build:

GPU: Sapphire R9 280X DUAL-X

CPU: Intel Core i5 4460

RAM: Hyper-X 16GB DDR3

MB: Gigabyte B85M-D3H

PSU: Seasonic 620W

HDD: WD BLUE 1TB+1TB

I have exactly the same issue. I updated my windows to 1803 via windows update. Everything went normal as it should but after the installation completed I used my pc for some work. Did some gaming and faced lil bit performance drop on ac:origins using 18.3.4 driver. Then I tried to install 18.4.1. So, rebooted to safe mode and used DDU. A difference i noticed here is that DDU used to take make 5mins to clean everything and restart on previous windows builds but here it took more than 10mins just to 'Cleaning Directory' step. After that I installed 18.4.1. Next day I turned on my pc having Sapphire R9 280X DUAL-X, it was stuck on infinite loading screen. Typically - black screen with spinning circle just before login screen appears. I rolled back to 1709. Tested 18.4.1 on this build and everything is absolutely fine and no performance drop also. If u do find a permanent fix for this like any update from AMD's or MS's side, kindly do inform. As of now, I will be using 1709 build unless this is fixed. And ya, after booting to safe mode and then again rebooting to normal mode used to do the trick. But as soon as u reboot/turn on/off ur pc the same bootloop occurred.

[bobcamo]

yeah, unfortunately i can't roll back the Windows build. my only choice is to reformat, re-install windows and try to block the 1803 update if i even can on a fresh install... which i kinda doubt i can due to how it normally works after i do fresh installs. and yes i tend to do full fresh installs monthly to bi-monthly lol, unless i feel lazy and windows doesn't act up as fast then may last up to 3-4 months.
but yes that's the only thing I've figured out because of remembering same things back on windows 98 and xp that i've had to do that. everything I've found has not done anything for my end. and yes, your description of the infinite loading is exact to what i was talking about. if you have 2 monitors on and have everything normal, then it only shows on one screen then the other acts dead. if you disable the device then both screens do it. but yes, it's like every other boot no matter what you have to enter safe mode. i'll disable device, restart, then infinite loading screen, reboot 2 more times to go into safemode then i just restart as soon as the desktop loads and it loads in fine.
and yes i'll try to make sure if i find something or an update works i'll post in here. but for now... nothing... and i don't think there will be til either MS or AMD to make an update regarding this and it has been mentioned on MS sites already just not exact to this problem for majority of it. and it does affect my end on performance due to the way i'm having to disable the device and such too... able to play games, but some things are buggy and i can't use nothing to do with the radeon settings because it's not started or on at boot.
Also, thanks for posting on this too. glad i wasn't the only one with the exact same problem.

[bobcamo]

well, think i just figured it out. read a post about drivers for the monitors them selves being messed up because of this windows update. so far restarted about 5 times in a row with everything normal and has been working fine. not entirely sure which monitor was causing it. but when in safe mode, only one of my monitors shows up in device manager. which was the one connected through Display port, not my HDMI one. but, i uninstalled the one showing. restarted and it started right up with no problems. once in windows normally, i uninstalled both again and restarted for good measure. both show up as a generic monitor, but haven't had any problems. hopefully this is the fix for anyone else getting this. will keep posted to anything new related.
so far, this windows update seems to be better done as a fresh install from all the hardware driver problems... granted unsure if there is an ISO from them that already includes the all the updates including this one.

Edit: wasn't a post about monitors, was display driver post for nvidia GPU's but i guess when i saw the screen icon that's what came to mind instantly lol.

[binay_dear]

Sir, i don't know abt this. M using my HDTV via HDMI hooked into my GPU. I haven't done any fresh install as m not sure that if it occurs again then no backup/wayout to roll back. I have only one monitor via hdmi that's detected as non-pnp. I nvr faced this issue on any previous build but have no idea what's going on with this build. Is this the only fix for this or any other method is there? Coz m not updating for now, will stick to 1709 with updates blocked. M quite disappointed, seeing no hopes to fix this.

[binay_dear]

I tried the above workaround u mentioned regarding monitor's driver but unfortunately it didn't work in my case.

[bobcamo]

ok,

yeah that's the only thing i figured out by accident as this has worked for my PC so far. but if this update really is messing with hardware drivers then anything to do with hardware or even USB stuff may need to be either re-installed or driver updated. hell, could even be a setting on the monitor or tv too. that's all i can think of so far. was constantly looking this up as my PC was practically unusable til i figured that that out for my end. but everything I've found out was that this update wasn't great lol.  but i will try to keep an eye out since i'm sure we're not the only one's with these problems. also one thing to mention as a just in case. this could probably go even as far as needing to reset the BIOS to defaults then trying it out then re-do your settings(did that a few times before updating windows trying to mess with my CPU and such). just trying to think of even the smallest things as this is oddly messing with things why i said maybe a true fresh install may work, but this is something that should be tested with everyone's stuff on a different drive(HDD, SSD, M.2) if available due to the vast differences of hardware and different experiences with this update.

EDIT:
Well, trying to test things out. so far if i run all my cleaners after doing the monitor uninstall the infinite loading screen came back, but went into safe mode and uninstalled the monitor again and everything is fine.
Cleaner's i used, CCleaner, IObit driver booster, IObit Advanced System care, IObit uninstaller. used both cleaning's and registry cleanings and it's helped cause the problem to come back. so from something like that it could be for my end at least something to do with a registry entry.

[binay_dear]

Damn even i use ccleaner n adv system care. M not understanding whats the problem here. I use ddu in safe mode to uninstall/completely clean my amd drivers. N then i install latest one/same if required. Now, today i saw changelog of a new version of ddu where it says suppport added for 1803 build. But m confused now whether i shud update via windows update n then test this out so if it messes up then will simply roll back. Or if i perform clean install n for any reason it starts occurring there also then it will cause me a big issue cz i'll have to again install older windows build n set my system. Or last thing i can do is better keep my pc as it is right now, keep the update blocked n wait for few days/maybe months. What do u suggest?

[bobcamo]

damn, yeah. um... idk, i got a 60GB ssd i can test a clean install on and see if i get any problems. will test cleaners and such but for now, i'd suggest not updating just yet... that DDU thing i think i tried first when everything happened and nothing happened. even if they just updated it, i'd have to test it my self. but if you have an extra un-used drive. go ahead and install windows on it with all the updates and everything then reboot, then install all drivers needed for hardware. until then, i can test it out on my end when i have time. going to be busy this weekend as i'm heading to a bond fire tonight but once i get done with all that i'll switch out my drives and give it a try. but over all, if everything I've done is not working on your end then that's why i'm guessing it's messing with drivers so badly and why i was saying maybe a fresh install may avoid this. but til i can test this my self or something is mentioned, then i'd keep at the old version and NOT update til then.

EDIT:
Odd thing is... none of my friends i play games with haven't had any problems with this but noticed they all have intel and nvidia CPU's and GPU's. only thing my one friend has problems with was a couple beta programs by i think corsair. but that's it. but overall, it all seems to be on microsofts end with how the update is performed... why i was noticing so many things for backing up the drive's before even updating to this new windows update.

[waltc]

bobcamo wrote:

EDIT:
Odd thing is... none of my friends i play games with haven't had any problems with this but noticed they all have intel and nvidia CPU's and GPU's. only thing my one friend has problems with was a couple beta programs by i think corsair. but that's it. but overall, it all seems to be on microsofts end with how the update is performed... why i was noticing so many things for backing up the drive's before even updating to this new windows update.

I have an AMD RX-480 8GB GPU installed, and have had no trouble whatever with 1803 and the latest Adrenalin driver, and my CPU is an AMD R5 1600 @3.8Ghz.  Not even a squeak of a problem--and I am already on build 17661.  Your problems aren't there, imo, but elsewhere in your system.

[bobcamo]

yeah, we have older amd hardware though too... that's the thing. that's great that your not having problems. but i have found else where people with similar builds as yours still having problems but i don't think those are related to what we're having. but no I've never had these problems before either which is why i found it odd til i started messing with things. it's definitely the windows update and if you search around there is actually a LOT of problems related to updating to this build for some reason. not the first time windows messed something up lol. their updates to the fall creators update messed up a lot of programs. one of them being asus AI Suite. but yeah. just trying to figure this out for those who are having similar problems and so far it does seem like a fresh install of windows may be fixing these issues which means windows needs to be attended to on how it's installing this update.

[binay_dear]

So, today i did some testings. Evrything worked fine. But the moment i uninstalled 18.4.1 via control panel or amdcleanuputility (tested both). The infinite loading came back. This time i didn't even use DDU. I might be wrong here but it looks like an issue in new windows version itself cz the 18.4.1 driver didn't caused any glitch or problem. When i tried uninstalling driver via control panel the uninstall used to get stuck. So, i chkd with amd utility n it worked. System rebooted f9 then again i installed 18 4.1 n rebooted n the issue was back. Let me tell you that b4 uninstalling my gpu driver, I rebooted and powered on/off my system atleast more than 15 times n not for single time it stuck in boot but as soon as i uninstalled n reinstalled driver...it came back.

[plumboby]

I had a stepson Rebuild have issues with a Nvidia 1709 issue. Scored a R9 270OC 2G for cheap boys build was plagued with bugs. Fresh installed 1803 ran it as is for a night to make sure its stable. Ran DDU shut down. Fired back up on basic adaptor & loaded fresh drivers straight off AMD main driver page 18.4.1 atm on an i53470 8G ram with Gigabyte R9 270OC 2G running lick clockwork. Step son plays a varaity of games that been plagued with issues previously & all of them are running without a hitch on higher setting way nicer fluidity of gameplay. I am on 18.2.1 drivers on my RX560 but atm just holding off to see how the boys handles it. If it So far so good tho has fixed the other odd issues to. Tip & trick install fresh 10 with fresh 18.4.1 drivers  most of the time can eliminate 9/10 issues if your hardware is decent to.

[bobcamo]

yeah why i'm going to do a test on my other drive to see if my end is fixed by doing a fresh install. but problem is that's not always an option for everyone and these problems that i'm getting are more towards older AMD hardware so far. hence my build listed in the first post. but yeah. just a pain in the a** lol.

[pokester]

Just wanted to say that I loaded the 18.4.1 driver before updating to Windows 10 Spring Update 1803. I had zero issues this way. It absolutely may be luck of the draw though. Just seemed logical to load the driver first as it was compatible with both OS's. I figured if the new Windows needed it, it would already be there. I also have my Windows set to not let Windows automatically update my drivers with with Windows update.

[bobcamo]

i actually did the same thing but the problem happened. but also did figure out for my end it was something to do with the monitor driver's which still happens if i run a cleaner. probably just going to format my main drive since so many things are acting up on top of all this.only had the OS running for about... maybe 3 weeks since the last time lol. but i'm probably going to start on it tomorrow. hoping a fresh install of windows will fix these issues.

[pokester]

Good luck! Hope it works out. I know of several people that the new update caused issues for. I feel like I dodged a bullet on this.

[atlasminor]

Its a long shot, well not really, in fact i know this will work. Have hardware from both MSI and Gigabyte among others ... Short answer , head directly to your hardwares website pull down that specific driver OR CD=Rom out of the box (website is better) and use the appropriate driver the manufacture created that includes the actual HwID's .

Lots of people ignore the fact, and the changes to Defender made it harder to install any driver W/o special permissions granted to the Windows-10 OS.

Have a card that starts at Crimson version 16.4 and have to use a good Driver Updater to pull down the latest driver the manufactures sell to them. They won't post what can be sold.

Take heed , this is only My2cents , or the UEFI Firmware will require a AMD update to meet the new 1803 standards. and you wont beable to block 1803 unless you have corporate edition, which costs thousands and isn't a commercial release.

Probably just the firmware, but why update a driver that does nothing for the app's your running, i can understand if a game or the Xbox just dies without the new driver, but that is never the case and most drivers nowadays are just used for testing to be sent to buyers.

Hope this helps. Which driver updater you need depends on which one is handling the company. Personally i would just use the driver that came with your card until such time, if that fails, you definitly know who should be called.

This isn't just 1803, you will go through this every 2,4 and 6 months promised and delivered through Microsoft. I lay money on firmware, even non-existant PC's are receiving firmware updates not just because of the Meltdown IntelME problems, but because of 1803 and what is to follow.

[bobcamo]

yeah, i'm just waking up now about to back everything needed up then reformatting. did remember having the same issue before it became an actual update as i did try a preview build but because of the problems it did a system restore on me. but it's happened twice with regular updating. just hoping the re-installation works fine.

[plumboby]

To state a weird conundrum on this half the time its not the updates is the way they are installed. I installed 1803 first then once updated & running stable loaded up 18.4.1 on an old Gigabyte R9 270 as i threw out a crapvidia card as had enough there mongrel updates. my stepsons I had prety much relaced & eliminated all hardware till the video card even PSU was suspect but running happy as the day I got it. I dont run any 3rd party crapware, browsers or Anti virus. I run a clean install of 10Pro full version with Edge as browser cc cleaner, & standard AMD Andrenaline drivers on all 3 builds so far without an issues. Blame is put on microsoft & AMD its not half the time its hardware releated as a long story lesson learnt from a few builds. If you got a questionable or suspect hard drive have had 10 kill many coz the hard drivers crapped out it happens. Its why i run ssd for OS & display drivers & games on 1T hard drive banks for incase. I dont bother doing back ups & i completely wipe any form of old updates or update logs so bugs do conflict drivers causing errors. I got a way I install on all builds with Laptops to Desktops that's never failed yet but been taught by a very got IT pro who spent alot of time in the Intel & AMD factories in China & his ex is a Russian IT pro translator who taught me alot & now teaching her vica versa with the AMD drivers & new 10 issues. I run bootable media which i remake every 6 months or so & same time got accesss to legit 10Pro non Oem keys, being on good terms with Microsoft as well if I get stuck. A lot comes from idiots who use pirated verions of OS like 7/10 which alot these issues do arise from & not spoken often about. I do my Installs clean with clean legit keys & 7 keys are still able to activate 10 without an issue. Go an issue with 10 1803 update or driver issues let me know as I got a few diffrent builds round at diffrent states i keep an eye on all the time for bug related issues. I work full time day job but a IT tech after hrs.

[bobcamo]

well, as i just said to the person above you "atlasminor" this happened even when i did the preview build before it became an actual update about a week or so before the update became live. so for my end it definitely seems to be how it's installed for some reason...   but that's why i'm about to re-install to see if it works or not.

[atlasminor]

Roger that, i had a few backups on same Physical Drive , and 1803 nuke them all, i do have my offline backup drive, but anyways, i went looking through error reports myself, some of didnt make sense,

So,

You can try to do what i did and start full directory repairs, i myself had to repair / Add over 400 DLL's, but i managed to get 1803 to run error free aftwards,

Seems like they have broken Safemode in 1803 and SafeMode with Networking, Select SafeMode ACTIVE Directory Repair, you should have a ton of hidden stuck AMD drivers show up, get rid of those

All your uninstallers / and Installers will now work in Active Directpry Repair Mode. From there its up to the tech on what to do, Your also going to want to use msconfig , Select make Boot Options Permenant, Disable Fastboot in UEFI only, not fastStartup and Disable the Boot Loaders GUI,

Only noticeable is the little Wheel disappaers on reboots, you will still get a wheel loader animation during ColdBoot

This isnt crazy, reboot to desktop after configuring all that first THEN run CMD Admin prompt type:

powercfg /h type REDUCED

chkdsk /f

Reboot , then finally go to safemode Active Directory Repair.

The disk check will save your current config to Windows-10's FastStartUp Image. If not to unconfortable with the idea

Leave Fastboot disabled in UEFI and SecureBoot Enabled.

Think they broke that to ... but on some of my older systems that part has been broken since 1607...

GL man, its a fun ride if you follow through. Install all your stuff in that mode and keep boot looping using active repair, you will notice your desktop Wallpaper is first installed onto it, but your wifi should start working, different hardware that had problems will now work, ect...

Cheers

[bobcamo]

ok, just got done re-installing wondows 10 pro x64 by downloading the "Media Creation Tool" so it'll auto everything to my USB drive. so far everything has installed to the newest windows and very little updates(shockingly). now i only installed all drivers, runtimes, ccleaner, chrome, adobe stuff. pretty much MY basics before installing other software. everything worked great, no problems. then i did a cleaning with 4 cleaners for a test. cleaning with ccleaner, IObit Advanced system care, IObit driver booster(yes it has one cleaning option i use in it), and IO Uninstaller. everything ran great still until i restarted and got the infinite loading screen. but went into safemode again and only uninstalled the driver to which ever ONE monitor is showing up. restarted and works fine. no problems since but i think the cleaners are removing something that i'm needing for my monitor, but also doesn't seem to matter if i unplug one and switch, which is odd... but i think the cleaner that may be causing it for me on that specific thing is in Driver booster i use the "Clean unplugged device data" which never had problems before but that seems to be what it may be. but i will do test's in a few after i get done with this post to test which specific things are messing with it. but overall, the other issues i was having are gone with a fresh install.

EDIT:
Nope, was CCleaner. but only when i select these under "System"  DNS Cache, Font Cache, Start Menu Shortcuts and Desktop Shortcuts. doing more testing to make sure of this.

So far, narrowed it down to the only option of those 4, the Font Cache is what's causing my infinite loading screen when cleaned. doesn't seem to do it on any advanced options, even tested the built in disk cleanup and none affected it.

Well, even installed the driver's for my monitors since this time windows is actually updating them instead of them saying generic PNP. but the monitors i'm using are ACER H233H monitor - HDMI  and   HP Compaq LA2205 Wide LCD Monitor - DP(Displayport). when i boot into safemode the HP one shows and that's the one i have to uninstall to start up after doing the font cache clean. so not sure what all this may mean. but so far everything works just fine if the font cache isn't cleaned. i guess just be careful which cleaner's your using til the cleaners are updated if not windows if not both.

Forgot to mention that i did test IObit Advanced system care and selected EVERYTHING for the cleaning. didn't mess with anything like what ccleaner was causing with the one item.

[pokester]

If you would not mind you should let Piriform know what you  found. I am sure they would like this information. Good job nailing it down.

[bobcamo]

was thinking about it. odd thing is i just got done installing all the other software i normally install and it happened again but i didn't run ANY cleaners lol. but just did the usual steps and fine again.

EDIT:
Lol, well, now a quality update for windows just showed up out of the blue and i'm unable to install it due to every time i try to, it needs a restart but causes the infinite loading screen on top of it. even tried to restart strait into safemode but it instantly cancels out the update. update showing in windows update "2018-05 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4103721)" ugh. well guess no more updates for me unless i'm forced to do another clean install lol. funny thing is... wonder if it's an update of what we're all or some of us are having yet, it triggers lol. but went to the info of it and it's says it's a security update... but in windows updates it say's its a quality update.

[bobcamo]

Added notes found.
went further back into this windows update.if your are getting an infinite loading screen/splash screen on boot for update 1803 and have an intel CPU, apparently turning OFF your vt-d/Intel Virtualization Technology seems to help some. tried my end even though i have AMD, but no dice for me. but may work with others with or without Specific CPU's.

[bobcamo · Accepted solution]

HOLY CRAP!!! think i figured it out... finally found a decent thing for my end which so far has fixed the black screen before login completely...
First. i'd like to say... WOW is there so much blame on GPU driver's in general when none of that worked even before i searched it up... granted i didn't help on that till testing more.
Second, Guess which service it was... "Advanced SystemCare Service 11"
ok, this may not work for everyone but so far the same things i used to CAUSE the black screen of death(yes that's what this is called apparently. BSOD either way...) have not caused it since i have done this.
Here is the link to which i found and followed.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph/help/929135/how-to-perform-a-clean-boot-in-windows

Scroll down til you see a section in big bold lettering named "How to determine what is causing the problem after you do a clean boot", under that click on the drop down menu which looks like a link named "Windows 10, Windows 8.1, Windows 8" that's the steps i fallowed. read the steps there then go ahead and read my tips below.
now for a faster determination if it even IS a Service causing it, once on step 5 click the button that says "Disable all", then Apply, then OK, if your able to cause the black screen, do that before hitting the restart button on the small window that shows up after hitting OK and do not check the box either on that same window. if it windows starts up fine with no black screen, then it's a non-windows process then continue on from step 5. if not, continue on to the windows process part, if neither then it's not a process and something else is causing it.
if it's not the above, many have constantly opted to reference to reverting windows back and blocking the update. other's there is many fixes and so on that randomly has helped. here is what i typed into google( windows 10 1803 black screen boot problems  ) to find all the things I've tried and tested and no differences for my end. pretty much a few of the links shown may lead to other forums with more link in them, which... may have to be done... yes... i have been at this since 10pm last night and finally got done now at... 6:20am and was working on it a few hours before 10 but wasn't paying attention to time... lol. think i started from my last post about the windows update not installing right. just giving an idea of what to expect if nothing in this thread helps... but still trying to make it less on everyone the best i can.

Well. hopefully this does help anyone. i will keep an eye on this post the best i can.

Edit:
keep in mind i have a feeling the process fix may change with each update of windows or even program update or additional program installed. overall, this again is an update probably best waited on for apparently at least 3-6 more months of it being out of what many have said...

Yeah... after that windows update that i was unable to update too before(couple post's ago) i started getting the black screen again the same way. sadly... i may only have like 3 services or so that are in there that i can actually disable. the rest... i have to have enabled other wise the program wont even run after windows is booted. so i'm just disabling all non windows services, do my cleanings, restart, then once back into windows, re-enable them all again, then restart and so far this has been working for me. which may indicate the service might be able to be fixed one of two ways I've noticed which may not make a difference on the black screen appearance. some programs if you try to run after disabling it's service and restarting may ask to re-install the service. other way is to re-install the program. neither of these may work. but there is a chance which is why i'm mentioning it.

[pokester]

Good to know. AMD gets a lot of blame for stuff they don't control. Definitely a mix of real issues and assumed issues when it comes to the bad opinions people have of their drivers.  Let iobit know what you found too then. Thanks!

[atlasminor]

Glad you were able to resolve your problem, ive looked at ASC before, has a nice look to it, but like other known commercial System Tweaker/Cleaners, they fail to stay updated.

Did not know you  didn't have a clean install, I think I would consider Hirens before trying anything along a cleaners lineu and Hirens hasn't been updated since Mint-15 …

Along with new Atmos getting a ton of stuff to rid of a system, your sound services that installed through your sound packages may have a conflict with the now impossible to uninstall MixedReality, you can uninstall the 3DViewer, but mixed is baked in like edge, which I found commercially unlawful. (imo)

[bobcamo]

well, i resolved it til changes were made and it started back up again but didn't feel like restarting my PC 15 times again to find the other or different service that is now affecting my restart lol. why if it happens i'm just doing them all.
yeah they do seem to be behind at times. why CCleaner has always been my go-to.

to the clean install part. yeah i was shortly before i updated to 1803, was only a week old then when this all started i did it again lol.
Hirens, god i haven't heard that in a long while and haven't used it in 5 years. Lineu? never heard of that that i know of.
Yeah... there is a few things like that on here sadly.

[pokester]

You knows since you are thinking it is a service starting issue. There are many delayed start utilities that make it easy to play around with changing the timings on when a service starts or before or after another. I know I have many times where it is just like to many things trying to start at the same time it overwhelms the system.

[atlasminor]

EH That's was typo ment Linux*** instead of lineu, sorry about that, and havnt touched it since 1607.

Well, if you got Hirens, you still have a working Boot Recovery with GParted as a option. Great to burn in a GPT Hierarchy format onto a drive that Win10 cant avoid.

You may a DMA(direct memory access) conflict, it isn't to serious, its just what Microsoft ends up doing every new build, updating the Protective Services to Block what you manufacture has Factory Locked access to Closed/Open dma points on the bord/system.

That to will be firmware related, but you can get around it by disabling all the Win10 protection checks, that happen at Post/SecureBoot/TPM/Lockscreen and finally Desktop Defender checks by adding this dwnwrd32

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\PnP\Pci]

"DisableExternalDMAUnderLock"=dword:00000001

I just copy/pasted my exported, among many to save the countless hours it would take to dig through all the poo <.<.

Just set it from 0 to 1 to disable. Just one of many possibles that might be getting in the way.

So what it is most likely is there is Upper User Mode Level access and Kernel Mode access in both your drivers and all software that need to access the dma at all times, as fast as seamless and is checked at every point I mentioned starting at Post, because we eliminated FastBoot to the WindowsDefender debacle … mess is what that thing is, and it too needed to be Factory matched and locked. So your Hardware has the correct protections on it, just need to keep windows-10 from trying to either Open or Close whats been factory locked to meet what was the older build standards. Hope this helps.

[bobcamo]

Added Info. been messing with some things again. noticed that some runtimes are causing the black screen to happen, how i found out was because i didn't have the 2015 C++ installed but wouldn't allow me too install it because 2017 was installed. uninstalled 2017, installed 2015 and restarted then it happened. but this time it seemed to have messed with my GPU drivers. so i had to uninstall the driver in safe mode, then restarted. re-installed 2017, then installed the AMD driver and no issues.

[pokester]

The trick you run into sometimes with reinstalling those runtimes is that when you install them again you need to also then run Windows update and let them update them again, then install the later runtime and run Win update again. Sometimes the installers are not the latest. But you did right. You have to do them in order sometimes or it just gets messed up.

[atlasminor]

You also might be having a framework 3.5 / 4.0 merge issue, those older runtimes 2015 and below all tend latch hold to 3.5 rather than installing onto 4.0 like they should ...

apparently Microsoft still has major VB issues but not as bad as it was were they would unpack and install directly onto the C: drive and just start creating it's own folders...

You can try to do what I did to correct that issue which is lookup the actual PowerShell User Feature commands , head to Directory Repair and disable / re-enable the framework features and allow them to reinstall/repair and re-update themselves. Not 100% guaranteed to work, could cause more problems than it fixes, and it has to be performed in a certain order with power-user enabled, like the ones that allow SafeMode install options enabled, something Home Edition has blocked/disabled by default but still can be overwritten, along with all Pro features such as Group Policy Editor to be installed, they are just hidden and disabled by default on the Home Edition.

But glad your working it out. 

[bobcamo]

yeah, they can be problematic.
i'll have to try that when i get the chance.
eh, just randomly doing things to see what happens here and there then basically report back here in case anyone else gets it and such. so far, yeah still can get the black screen but avoid using everything that causes it for now.

[atlasminor]

1803 seems way more stable then the previous builds , TBH I opt-in to using older drivers vs trying newer versions because its never clear which (build) the drivers were actually intended for.

Manufactures are updating firmware for both Motherboards and GPU's monthly, at least Gigabyte updates monthly, EVGA and MSI close to quartly and I just gave up on Asus lmao...

Asus good at making something that's now now, but go total Dark)(Helmet for when the next happens,then I think they choke or something. Unconfirmed.

[bobcamo]

yeah, i usually wait a month or so on drivers but got a little... complacent with the driver's lately the last couple years for what i have to not worry about it. but... that's what happens lol. but no for my end i did try older and such, had no changes. definitely seems to vary between builds and devices and even certain software installed.

wish mine still did... last update for majority of my stuff was in 2015 and 2016... except the "BIOS-Utility" a thing called "BRenamer!" which is not used was updated in 2017 lol. go limited support... usually 3-5 years depending on many factors such as popularity and such then it's ignored lol. but that is good to know that gigabyte does monthly as if i ever some how am able to get work or money i was planning on getting a gigabyte aurous gaming 7 MOBO with a i7-8700k.

well, i use to mainly go for asus but yeah... noticed... they need a LOT of... well work on software lol. hardware they seem to do pretty damn good, why using their MOBO's tend to be best for OC'ing CPU's.

[plumboby]

I just done this update fairing black screen issue but carried over ok. On my own build, disable fast boot in bios & can be done in the OS to had no issues but I havnt shut down either incase. Its a better than 1709 ever was but not a fan of it tho. tho got a m8 having issues so it case by case tho I have updated 3 successfully & my partners laptop. The lastest hotfixs on update package that comes with it fixs issues. Tho I am on my personal using 18.2.1 drivers , I want whql drivers before I try new drivers. But have found its bit hit or miss tho all mine run on 10 Pro so rarely have the issues where some come from Home edition.

[bobcamo]

yeah, that's why i was testing everything i could to both cause and fix the black screen and restart or shutdown every time to make sure it worked before posting my findings on here. yeah i did try that trick. found literally all the tricks i could and only the one i talked about above worked. nothing else made any differences or changes to this. but as i mentioned before. this definitely seems to vary between builds(hardware) and even softwares(including drivers to ANYTHING plugged in) installed. i'm using Win10Pro also. but even found tricks a few months back too as this issue from the looks of it has been on the preview build for about 6 months or so before it even became live. but glad your not having too much problems with it. once i found a fix for my end i've been fine with it also. i just have to be on guard every time i update something or add something now lol.