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black_zion
Esteemed Contributor III

nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

Decidedly not what AMD needs to see right now. It does appear that mainstream cards, in a properly optimized game, are capable of 1920x1080 60fps performance average, which is going to spur game developers to include it, so if Navi lacks ray tracing, they're going to be at a significant disadvantage. Plus it only costs $350 while having Vega64 levels of performance, a card $50 more expensive...

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-ray-tracing-turing,5960.html

Battlefield V - FPS - 1920x1080, DX12 Ultra

...which leads to the second part: Sapphire immediately issued price cuts to their Vega cards (which have since been canceled, no doubt on AMD's orders). As PCGamesN points out, this would not have happened if Navi with GTX 1080 levels of performance (as was stated by AMD to be the case) was anywhere near, they'd have dumped the cards because they're going to collect dust on the shelf. Now they're just going to collect dust on the shelf, especially with nVidia to support VESA Adaptive Sync (FreeSync) starting January 15th​ meaning Freesync users aren't tied to AMD.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/sapphire-rx-vega-graphics-card-price-drops

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ajlueke
Exemplar
Exemplar

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

6 Gb of VRAM on a $350 card?  Even the GTX 1070 it replaced had 8.  Tsk tsk.

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ajlueke
Exemplar
Exemplar

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

All kidding aside, the reviews I've read the RTX 2060 delivers about 95% of Vega 64 performance at $350.  That is already a pretty good deal, and coupled with the fact that you can use any Freesync monitor with NVidia in a week is damning enough.  What's left to do?  Maybe throw a game bundle on top of that?

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Done.

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black_zion
Esteemed Contributor III

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

Ugh, game bundles, wish they would go away...Give me half the "value" back as cash any day. If Vega 64 had, say, a "5 Game Megapack worth $200", for example, or a $100 rebate, which would you rather have? Free games are worthless, especially if you either already have the game or have no interest in the games offered, whereas cash turns a card priced against its rival in performance into a card priced against it's inferior competitor's card. Remember the DEAL ALERT: MSI RX 580 $147.99 on Amazon with AmEx card & mail in rebate​ which would you rather have, a $148 card, or a $200 card with $50 in "free games"?

ajlueke
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Exemplar

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

True enough, but on the flip side of that, they are better than nothing.  Sure, I have no desire to buy or play Battlefield V, but I have been entertaining the idea of picking up Anthem.

Back to the original post, I wonder if Sapphire jumped the gun on the price cuts with Vega.  There is rumor that AMD might reveal a Vega II during the keynote tomorrow and that might be coupled with price cuts for the existing line.  Unfortunately, I don't expect much from AMD as GCN limits what they can do with the architecture.  Looking back, GCN gained a lot of performance from the 7970 to the Fury X, all on the same process node.  So I think all the optimizations that can be done, have been done.

That assertion is supported by the fact that Vega essentially had the identical IPC to the Fury X.  The only performance gains came from the process node shrink to 14nm from 28nm which netted about a 30%-40% uptick from higher clockspeeds.  If a Vega II does launch, it will essentially just be a 7nm version of the 14nm Vega, which will again only gain performance based on improved clockspeeds.   I don't think we'll see big improvements until Arcturus honestly, at least not improvements in IPC.  If they gain a similar 30%-40% as in the last die shrink, that would put Vega II at a RTX 2080 level of performance, but well behind the RTX 2080 Ti.  Navi then, will fall in place at the RTX 2070 level for $250.

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black_zion
Esteemed Contributor III

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

The problem is HBM2. It's expensive and in short supply, which means AMD needs every chip for the high performing, well selling, high margin Radeon Instinct MI50 and MI60, which feature 7nm Vega 20 units performing 20%+ better than Vega 10. Vega II will supposedly launch this year to hold AMD over until 2020, but with performance likely between the 2060 and 2070, lack of ray tracing (very limited appeal at this time of course), and expensive HBM2 on board, it may be priced too competitively against the RTX 2070 to make a splash.

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hardcoregames_
Big Boss
Big Boss

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

where does that leave my RX 470?

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ajlueke
Exemplar
Exemplar

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

Unchanged.  Still obsolete .

ajlueke
Exemplar
Exemplar

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

The performance of Vega is already between the 2060 and 2070.  Looks like the bump is about 30% again with Vega VII, exactly what we got with the last die shrink, putting it right at the RTX 2080 for $699.  The suprising thing is that they actually threw in an extra HBM2 stack, giving Vega VII 16 GB total

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pokester
Esteemed Contributor III

Re: nVidia RTX 2060 has Vega 64 performance for $350; Sapphire tips AMD's hand that Navi is NOT imminent

I agree 6 is too Little. I don't think it replace the 1070, well it does. What I mean is it is the new 1060. The new 1070, the 2070 is yet to be announced. If that is in the 4-450 range and 8gb that will be stellar.

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