General Discussions

[javier_]

Good morning my name is Javi and I need help with my new mini ITX PC. Let's start:

1.- A few days ago I bought an Amazon for my birthday:

+++ Ryzen 5 3400G

+++ 2 of HyperX Predator HX432C16PB3A / 8 - RAM (DDR4 8GB, 3200MHz CL16 DIMM XMP RGB)

+++ Gigabyte Technology B450 I AORUS Pro WiFi - Motherboard (DDR4-SDRAM, DIMM, 2133,2400,2667,2933 MHz, Dual, 32 GB, AMD)

+++ IN Win Chopin Mini-ITX Gehäuse, 150 Watts Netzteil - Silber

+++ Noctua NH-L9a-AM4, Silent Heatsink for CPUs and APUs of AMD Ryzen Platform, Brown

2.- The assembly has been carried out with gloves and anti-static wristband with the care that a computer installation deserves. After finishing the assembly, the following problems arise:

a) Initially, the system works correctly, Windows 10 installs well, and the games run correctly. Good temperature, good performance.

b) After a few hours with the box unplugged from the wall (about 4 hours), when plugging in again the problems begin:

    ****b.1) Pressing the power button the fans and the ram rgb work correctly a simple view (ATTACHED FILE 1) (that is, they have power), but I have no HDMI image, neither do the USB ports, nor the buttons of restart, neither the hard disk activity indication LEDs nor the power LEDs.

    ****b.2) The only way for everything to work again is to perform a CLEAR_CMOS in the bios pinos. And Windows 10 starts again without problems.

    ****b.3) If during the operation of the system the friction occurs, or the minimum minimum movement in the pines of the F_Panel of the motherboard (ATTACHED FILE 2), the system is blocked again and a few pixels of colors appear on the screen ( ATTACHED FILE 3 and 4), only the problem is solved again by unplugging it from the wall and reset again to CLEAR_CMOS on the BIOS pins. Then Windows starts again.

3.- After these problems, Amazon was contacted and they have determined that it is probably a motherboard problem. A plate RMA has been performed.

4.- Having said all of the above, I ask the following questions:

      4.1 The indicated Fault Could it be a cause of a problem in Ryzen 5 3400G? What opinion do you have of the Judgment? I would greatly appreciate your opinion.

      4.2 Do you recommend a reliable mini itx board that is robust and compatible with ryzen 3000 from the moment you take it out of the box?

Thanks for helping. Sorry for my bad English, I'm using the google translator.

[javier_]

Obviously I am using vega 11 for my graphics (APU) What could have failed? any ideas?

[elstaci]

I would start that you have a very weak PSU at 150 Watts. If you can borrow a higher rated Metal PSU of around 350-400 watts and see if the artifacts goes away. If it does than you need to replace your PSU.

From 3D Guru review concerning Power consumption: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G review - Power Consumption 

Try stress testing your PSU using OCCT PSU Test and see what results you get. That might narrow down the problem. If that passes then try the GPU & CPU Stress tests. 

While stress testing keep an eye on Temperatures and PSU Outputs.

Also artifacts can be caused by Overheating or defective GPU Ram or Overclocking.

NOTE: Also make sure you have the latest Motherboard CHIPSET drivers installed and APU Driver (https://www.amd.com/en/support/apu/amd-ryzen-processors/amd-ryzen-5-desktop-processors-radeon-vega-g... )  installed. Plus check to see if your RAM MEMORY is listed on the Motherboard's QVL List for RAM MEMORY.

EDIT: Reread your original Post. Amazon says it is probably a bad motherboard which you have RMAed already?  If so wait until you get the replacement motherboard and see if everything works fine. But I would still try to upgrade your PSU to a stronger one to prevent power issues from occurring while under heavy loads.

[javier_]

But..... according to the manufacturer's specifications, the watts would be 65. I doubt it has power problems.

On YouTube there are videos with these similar systems running smoothly. Take a look at this:

Ryzen 3400g InWin Chopin

AMD Ryzen 5 3400G mini-ITX Gaming PC Build - Installation Video

Mini Mini-ITX Build

Portable Compact Gaming LAN PC #ASMR Build - In Win Chopin + GPU

I'm missing something?

[elstaci]

Well the TDP is used to determine how strong of a CPU Cooler you will need to keep the processor cool. But as you can see from the review of power consumption I posted earlier, the Processor is using almost 120 watts under load.

But since you have a tiny motherboard, it probably will be adequate for your hardware you have installed. 

Do you have the latest CHIPSET and BIOS/UEFI installed including the latest AMD APU Driver that I posted? 

Did you RMA the motherboard back to Amazon or did still have the original one?

[elstaci]

Okay from what I have read a weak PSU won't cause Artifacts. Mainly GPU Overheating or Overclocking or bad GPU RAM Memory can cause artifacts.

So ignore the PSU for now. It should be adequate for your setup as long as you don't install a GPU card in your system.

Make sure you have the latest BIOS/UEFI and CHIPSET installed from your motherboard with the latest AMD Driver for your Vega Graphics.

After that see if the artifacts continue.

Also check all the video cables from the motherboard to the monitor to make sure they are connected well and not loose.

[javier_]

My power calculations before buying were:

+++ Ryzen 5 3400G 65W
+++ Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 2,52W
+++ 2 of HyperX Predator 8 - RAM 10 W (two of 5W)
+++ Gigabyte Technology B450 I AORUS Pro WiFi ????


If truly the lack of power is the cause, I will do RMA of the box, and look for an alternative. Any small box that can have more power?

[ajlueke]

I guess my trouble shooting recommendations would be as follows.

Buy a Athlon 200GE or some other low end APU (3000G, 300GE) would also work.  If you system runs fine with that, then you have narrowed the likely culprit down to either the PSU or the 3400G.  You can then RMA your 3400G, and the other CPU you purchased to test, and try a new 3400G.  If the problem presists, it is likely a PSU issue. 

[ajlueke]

The PPT limit (Package Power Tracking) for AMD CPUs labeled with a 65W TDP is 88W.  As elstaci‌ pointed out, the TDP is a measure of heat dissipation, not the amount of wattage the CPU will pull from the wall.  The CPU can and will pull up to 88W from the wall, provided some other limiter isn't met first (Temp, EDC etc.)

I use the Wesena ITX4 in a similar style build.

Ultra low profile HTPC chassis. 

This case does not have a PSU built in, so you will have to purchase a pico-PSU with an external power brick.  You can see my build here.

https://community.amd.com/message/2915161 

It is similar to yours, but I am using a ASRock board, and the less demanding Athlon 200GE.

[javier_]

ok, I have made an RMA of the following parts:

+++ 2 of HyperX Predator HX432C16PB3A / 8 - RAM (DDR4 8GB, 3200MHz CL16 DIMM XMP RGB)

+++ Gigabyte Technology B450 I AORUS Pro WiFi - Motherboard (DDR4-SDRAM, DIMM, 2133,2400,2667,2933 MHz, Dual, 32 GB, AMD)

+++ IN Win Chopin Mini-ITX Gehäuse, 150 Watts Netzteil - Silber. 

Now I only have the 3400G and the CPU fan. I start from scratch and I don't want to be wrong. Any idea of something compact but powerful? I want it for my work trips, to take my Steam games with me. (Puyo Puyo Tetris, Sonic Mania, Light Blue, Skyrim, Hollow Knight ... etc. I appreciate your help

[javier_]

I have received an official response from AMD support

Thank you for contacting AMD support.

First I want to say thank you for your complete message with all the necessary information for your own diagnosis. It is not usual and I appreciate your time it has taken to gather all the information and symptoms.

Analyzing the information that you have given us and the behavior that you present, this seems to be that there is some type of interference in the equipment, whether the equipment is not adequately isolated, but in this case you have determined that having manipulation in the cables of Front Panel connected to the Mini ITX board, the interference is caused, it is possible that, as you have determined there is a defect in the motherboard. Other causes may be that the HDMI port is damaged, or even the cable may not be working properly.

  The motherboards also have insurance, which prevents static damage, so if there is any type of interference in the equipment, it may be that this is causing the system to block and then does not provide image, but after a CMOS reset , everything works temporarily until the next reboot.

  Generally it is not common that only the graphics section of the processor is damaged, since if there is a defect with the processor it is usually not working, or it does not allow you to install the graphic drivers. In this case we can not recommend any specific motherboard model, the motherboard that you have purchased not really bad, it is highly recommended in this type of equipment construction, another popular option is the ASRock Fatal1ty B450, however, in this In this case it is possible that it was simply a defective unit, which is possible in all types of electronics.

  If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again.

[ajlueke]

The ASRock Fatal1ty B450 is what I used, and have had no issues.  You'll have to make it it has Ryzen 3000 ready UEFI installed if you go that route.

I entered your build into pcpartpicker, and added a SSD harddrive.  Pcpartpicker, calculates power consumption for the build at 129W.  That should still work with a 150W power supply.

If you want to try something with more power, I would go with the Streacom F1C (no optical drive) and a RGeek 2%0W picoPSU.  You can then add an external power brick for that to plug into the wall.  Let me know if you need any additional info.