General Discussions

[kingfish]

MD unveiled its new Radeon RX 5700 line of graphics cards with 7nm chips at E3 last month, and with just days to go before they launch on July 7th, the company has announced new pricing. In the "spirit" of competition that it says is "heating up" in the graphics market -- specifically NVIDIA's "Super" new RTX cards -- all three versions of the graphics card will be cheaper than we thought.

The standard Radeon RX 5700 with 36 compute units and speeds of up to 1.7GHz was originally announced at $379, but will instead hit shelves at $349 -- the same price as NVIDIA's RTX 2060. The 5700 XT card that brings 40 compute units and up to 1.9GHz speed will be $50 cheaper than expected, launching at $399. The same goes for the 50th Anniversary with a slightly higher boost speed and stylish gold trim that will cost $449 instead of $499.

That's enough to keep them both cheaper than the $499 RTX 2070 Super -- we'll have to wait for the performance reviews to find out if it's enough to make sure they're still relevant.

AMD fires back at 'Super' NVIDIA with Radeon RX 5700 price cuts 

[black_zion]

Last I heard RDNA2 cards weren't due until summer anyway as AMD has only had engineering samples in their labs for a month, and that AMD was never scheduled to make a presentation of "Big Navi" or RNDA2 at GDC.

[colesdav]

I just noticed that ASUS RX5700XT with dented blower style cooler are now starting to retail at ~ 300.
Gigabyte triple fan is selling at 330.
Those prices are more like where all of the RX5700XT cards should be.
Unfortunately the Powercolor Red Dragon RX5700XT is ~ 360.

[pokester]

Wow if that is true that is one heck of a generational increase. Maybe in about 5 years I can afford one! LOL

[black_zion]

There is precedent for it though, AMD did twice, once with the HD 4000 series and then again with the HD 5000 series. nVidia's also had two years to work on refining Turing, and they have much more thermal and electrical headroom as AMD does given the more efficient architecture plus the great node shrink.

[black_zion]

Thought I'd add this too: AMD has sanctioned and AIBs are releasing -another- RX 590: The RX 590 GME. These feature lower clocks than the 590, and right now seem to be Asian market exclusives, and there's no mention of what "GME" stands for.

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-590-gme-polaris-gpu-2020-launch/

[colesdav]

AMD Radeon RX 590 GME is Real and China Exclusive? | SegmentNext 

Golden Mouse Edition ...

I have no idea why it is called that.

[colesdav]

It is the Chinese Year of the Rat I think... not the Golden Mouse...

[colesdav]

These must be cards that did not make the speed bin for regular RX590.
I cannot see a reason for downlocking them otherwise.
Yet the articles i read all say "post overclocking" will regain the speed.That does not make sense.

If AMD do still have regular RX590 8GB to shift they should add the "Raise The Game" free games deal to those GPUs again.

That might help shift them along with remaining RX Vega 56 and 64, and few remaining Radeon 7 cards whose new prices are actually going up for some reason.

Looking at this:

https://www.amd.com/en/gaming/raise-the-game 
You only get the free games with RX5000 series.

[pokester]

I'm thinking that with yet another refresh of Polaris that GME might mean "Generally Mediocre Experience"  LOL

[black_zion]

Here's some -very- interesting news: The Department of Energy has chosen AMD Radeon Instinct GPUs to power its now 2 exaflop supercomputer. That's 2 exaflops at DOUBLE precision. As this system will not be built for a while, 2022, this must mean AMD has finally developed a genuine high end architecture. Thing is, two years from now, will it just be only as powerful as nVidia's midrangers?

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-el-capitan-epyc-genoa-radeon-instinct-two-exaflop-doe-supercomputer

[hardcoregames_]

I don't think I need 2 EFLOPS to play Halo with. Overkill.

[colesdav]

Might be useful for Walter.

[pokester]

I would bet do to its computer performance that it is likely a future Vega or Navi with comp like Vega not halved like they did with the gaming cards. We may never really know because they definitely do custom variations for things too. It could be just Navi with more chiplets for instance. I'm glad to see AMD getting the contract. Another consideration may be just security too. AMD has a better track record on security in their hardware than some other choices. I am sure a lot of variables go into making these decisions. 

[black_zion]

It can't be Navi with more chiplets because Navi isn't a replacement for high end cards, and Navi isn't a chiplet design, it's monolithic. This has to be either the same architecture that will be used to finally replace Vega, or a new GPU chiplet design which will allow easy scaling from low to high end as with the Ryzen architecture. The use of HBM2e, however, makes me think it's a monolithic design.

Still, two years away, and RNDA2 isn't going to carry AMD until 2022.

[hardcoregames_]

black_zion wrote:

It can't be Navi with more chiplets because Navi isn't a replacement for high end cards, and Navi isn't a chiplet design, it's monolithic. This has to be either the same architecture that will be used to finally replace Vega, or a new GPU chiplet design which will allow easy scaling from low to high end as with the Ryzen architecture. The use of HBM2e, however, makes me think it's a monolithic design.

Still, two years away, and RNDA2 isn't going to carry AMD until 2022.

In 2 years time from now TSMC may be fabbing logic at 5nm by then in full production. GDDR6 is still recent enough that it may not be replaced until 2023 or even 2024.

The rise of 32GB DIMMS is now more widespread which will allow 128GB on AM4 boards. G.Skill has 10 types of memory and speed grades with 32GB sticks.

[black_zion]

AMD did present this slide today, so it appears that the replacement for Vega that will come in the Radeon Instinct chips the DOE will be using may actually be able to use both HBM and be a chiplet design as well using an X3D packaging method, where they can stack the memory chips to the sides and GPU chiplets in the center. As to if this will make its way into high end Radeon cards at the same time is anyone's guess.

Source: AMD Financial Day Presentation (representation via Anandtech)

[black_zion]

Another couple of slides from AMD Financial Day. They say RDNA2 will be 50% more powerful than RDNA, but if Ampere, or whatever nVidia will call it, is also about 50% more powerful, then RNDA2 cards are still going to be slow in comparison, especially if it takes AMD 7 months to start quashing bugs.

[colesdav]

This slide is annoying and insulting:

[hardcoregames_]

colesdav wrote:

This slide is annoying and insulting:

It was not the best one anybody has done. I have lots of experience in marketing.

[black_zion]

"Innovative Software Features"

Translation: We saw nVidia do it, then people asked for it, then we decided to do it, but only make it available to certain GPUs even though others may or may not be capable of them.

[hardcoregames_]

Recall what Crytek did with the Vega 56 card and the Neon Noir demo at 1920x1080. The used a reflective shader which is GPU agnostic.

[ajlueke]

[colesdav]

So at least 2 years late?

[ajlueke]

That and AMD has made claims regarding perf/Watt before, as in Vega would be an improvement over Polaris, which it certainly was not.

[black_zion]

But if you go by this slide from yesterday's presentation, Radeon Instinct will be using a completely different architecture than Radeon.

[pokester]

This is interesting. I was thinking that they have to be planning 2 architectures moving forward. 

[black_zion]

What gets me...is that I'm actually tempted by this. If only that "$160 Value!" were a cash rebate instead of cheapo games...

[pokester]

That whole free games thing with AMD is a sore subject with me. I haver personally had very bad luck getting the games promised. I too would much rather they just lower the price a bit and offer no games. 

I came close to buying a 5700xt last August, when I built my 3600 machine. I really did want to give one a chance. However my own experience with drivers of late on my RX 580 and earlier GCN products that had been fine and now were not do to drivers coupled with bigger complaints caused me to go with the 2070 Super. Based on what is still going on it was still a sound decision. Especially since I bought an open box one for 450.00 and it overclocks like a champ and the drivers work.

It is such a shame that AMD has not solved the driver issues because even with them, they have sold a lot of GPU's. Interestingly enough though is I saw a break down the other day saying that the increased sales was not as much just the new RDNA as much as Polaris still being such a great budget GPU, accounting for AMD's rise in GPU market share. 

[hardcoregames_]

pokester wrote:

That whole free games thing with AMD is a sore subject with me. I haver personally had very bad luck getting the games promised. I too would much rather they just lower the price a bit and offer no games. 

I came close to buying a 5700xt last August, when I built my 3600 machine. I really did want to give one a chance. However my own experience with drivers of late on my RX 580 and earlier GCN products that had been fine and now were not do to drivers coupled with bigger complaints caused me to go with the 2070 Super. Based on what is still going on it was still a sound decision. Especially since I bought an open box one for 450.00 and it overclocks like a champ and the drivers work.

It is such a shame that AMD has not solved the driver issues because even with them, they have sold a lot of GPU's. Interestingly enough though is I saw a break down the other day saying that the increased sales was not as much just the new RDNA as much as Polaris still being such a great budget GPU, accounting for AMD's rise in GPU market share. 

I grabbed the R5 3600 after it was discounted on NewEgg by 14%

[colesdav]

Perhaps it is best you didn't.

Fixing MSI's Design Flaw: Thermal Pad Swap on RX 5700 XT Evoke OC | GamersNexus - Gaming PC Builds &... 

[pokester]

Ouch yes I forgot that was THAT card!

[colesdav]

Which is part of the problem with AMD AIB GPUs and it has been happening since Vega AIBs.

Even if MSI have "fixed the problem" how does the consumer know if they buy a "fixed one" or one with the tiny thermal pads?

Are you supposed to just take pot luck, buy it, test it, and then argue with the seller that it needs an immediate RMA?

Are they providing a "Thermal Pad Kit" like the Asus "Screw Kit" for the ROG Strix RX5700XT models?
The fact that things like this happen on one MSI or Asus RX5700XT version wipes my confidence out about purchasing any of their RX5700XT cards.
Same goes for XFX this time around.

If no product recall + full refund then this is what happens.

I think AMD need to work with their AIB partners and try to ensure the card quality is much better otherwise it wipes out confidence in entire RX5700XT Navi GPU. 

[colesdav]

Meantime how about an RX590 + AMD Raise the Game Deal (2 games) + 3 Months ZXBOX game pass for ... £109.

Radeon RX 590 Gaming Rev2 8192MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card *BIRTHDAY*

[pokester]

I'll pass. I gave on my RX 580 a little over a year ago. I'll make someone a way better deal on my card then what AMD is offering, LOL. 

[colesdav]

Just pointing out how low the prices for RX590 8GB are now.
Thats the lowest price I have seen yet in Europe.
I do not know enough about those Gigabyte RX590 anyhow. Not seen reviews about them.
I do not know if that one has a backplate removed to reduce cost.

[black_zion]

I'm still ticked at them abandoning the Fury series so fast it's now slower than Polaris despite being more powerful.

[ajlueke]

This seems to be very true.  The Fury X is now only 5% faster in userbenchmark than the RX 590.  I remember when Vega 64 launched, it was roughly 30% faster than the Fury X, now that gap has grown to 45% on average.  That indicates that there are optimizations that Vega got that Fury X did not.  Not sure what exactly is going on there.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget that they locked the HBM on the FuryX, nevertheless it was a great GPU.

The FuryX was one of the last GPU's that could disable the Powerplay downclocking crap. Stutter free it was awesome.

Vega and the VII are complete garbage.

[hardcoregames_]

john007 wrote:

Don't forget that they locked the HBM on the FuryX, nevertheless it was a great GPU.

The FuryX was one of the last GPU's that could disable the Powerplay downclocking crap. Stutter free it was awesome.

Vega and the VII are complete garbage.

what was locked, the HBM clock?

[ajlueke]

I'm not having a lot issues with Radeon VII on the 20.2.2 drivers currently.  I will admit, most of the drivers after the launch drivers could not be overclocked and stay stable so I ignored most of those.  Also, I tried the initial release of the "upgraded" drivers 19.12.2 I  think it was?  And those hard locked up when just sitting on the desktop.  However, I have my overclock in place in 20.2.2 and raise the minimum clocks a bit, and so far no issues playing Mechwarrior 5 or running a couple Superposition benchmark runs.