23 Replies Latest reply on Apr 13, 2018 8:40 PM by elstaci

    Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.

    jaymille

      I bought 3 new Dell XPS-8910 desktops in December.  I bought when the only specs available were for the REAL AMD Radeon RX-560 2 GB card.  I haven't felt video was delivering the way it should/I expected and started digging.  I think I was sold 1 product (STRIPPED DOWN VERSION) when available specs told a different story.  How did I not get taken for a ride and what are my options?  I've never embraced AMD, never owned a processor.  This could seal the deal.  Color me, ... REAL DISAPPOINTED. 

        • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
          elstaci

          Download GPU-z and see what it indicates for all your AMD GPU cards.

           

          AMD is not responsible for what others install in their computers for sale.

           

          You need to go to the place of Purchase and ask your question if you find out the AMD GPU cards are not what you expected. Where did you purchase the Dell Desktops? was it from Amazon Marketplace or Ebay or something similar or a local store?

          • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
            hardcoregames™

            post the gpu-z image here

              • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                jaymille

                >>post the gpu-z image here

                I continue to feel scammed while Dell and AMD circle wagons.

                "Misunderstandings" doesn't explain advertising 560 and shipping a

                variant 560D, a cut down model more like a 4xx model.   To my

                interpretation the GPU-Z image/data displays all the characteristics

                of AMD Radeon RX 4xx.  The manufacturer is ambiguous:  Identified by

                "AMD Radeon Settings" as an AMD manufactured device (Vendor ID 1002

                ) and MS Device Manager | Hardware IDs (AMD Recommended utility)

                identifies 1028 (Dell).  In Device Hunt (AMD Recommended utility) the

                device ID (67EF) returns AMD  "Baffin [Radeon RX 460/560D / Pro

                450/455/460/560]" and using Dell  as manufacturer, THERE IS NO

                RESULT.  Also, Dell addressed the situation with the following

                statement yesterday:

                  Dear Xxx,

                 

                  Thank you responding back to us with the complete information.

                 

                  Sorry for the inconvenience caused due to the concern issue.

                 

                  Xxx, Dell doesn't manufacture AMD video cards this video card which

                is installed on the Dell system is an OEM version and not a retail

                model as a result there might be slight performance difference,

                however this model is perfectly capable to play games which is design

                to work with (AMD Radeon (TM) RX 560) this model would be able to play

                the games which is compatible with this card. So would like to know

                have you tried playing any games to test its functionality.

                 

                  Unfortunately Dell doesn't take into consideration of any third

                party test results.

                  Thank you for choosing Dell and have a great day.

                 

                  Sincerely,

                 

                  Xxxx Xxxxx

                  Dell Technical Support

                  Shift Time - 10 AM to 7 PM CST

                 

                AMD has 'released' (or renamed) a number of 560 variants after the

                fact, some of which have all 4xx characteristics.  The video card

                (characteristics) in question doesn't even have a designation on AMD

                site. The card was sold as "2 GB AMD Radeon RX 560" with no

                designator.  So if anyone wants to call this card a 560, which

                designator/model 560 is it?

                 

                Costco will accept these 3 computers back as returns (beyond 90 days);

                Dell would like to wash it's hands of the controversy with its

                statement and AMD, well, I can't find a way to contact except through

                forums.  (Clever.)  I'm dying to hear where I misread any of this

                information, ...  I would like to NOT feel scammed and won't/can't

                return the computers (the deal was unbeatable.)

                 

                Lastly, I fell into the 'sarcastic' response trap too.  If you have

                insight or information please contribute, but can we please keep it

                civil?  Whether my feelings are justified or not, it is a legitimate

                discussion topic.  Thank you.  J

                  • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                    elstaci

                     

                    "Gee, thanks.  I think I purchased from a reliable vendor, DELL fulfilled by Costco" &"There, did I cover everything for you,clearly enough?"  Sounds like sarcasm to me from you when you replied to an non-sarcastic post from me.

                     

                    "Lastly, I fell into the 'sarcastic' response trap too.  If you have

                    insight or information please contribute, but can we please keep it

                    civil?  Whether my feelings are justified or not, it is a legitimate

                    discussion topic."

                     

                    Let see if you follow your own advice.

                      • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                        kingfish

                        Strange that Dell has different specifications/graphics than the poster is claiming....and doesn't have any option for the RX 5xx series cards.

                        Support for XPS 8910 | Drivers & downloads | Dell US

                         

                        Screenshot_4.png

                          • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                            elstaci

                            Seems like the DELL XPS8910 is a discontinued model. That is probably why Costco sold it cheaply. To get rid of it from its inventory.

                             

                            At Dell, just about all the Discrete Graphics cards they use are from VisionTek. The only RX 560, which is not available, is from VisionTek that is sold at DELL.com. So, most likely, the card in the OPS computer is a Visiontek RX 560 card. This seems to be the same RX 560 card sold at VisionTek that is used by DELL: Radeon RX 560 2GB GDDR5 OC .

                             

                            I took a look at your Link and read the PDF of the models Service and Specs. It mentions all Nvidia cards except for one AMD card, a R9-370 I believe. http://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/xps-8910-desktop_setup-guide_en-us.pdf . Seems like they added the RX 560 right before they discontinued the model.

                             

                            According to this article, AMD Cutdown on some of the RX560 specs and resold it as a RX 560D model. This model was sold in Asia.AMD quietly downgraded some Radeon RX 560 graphics cards | PC Gamer

                              • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                kingfish

                                I don't see that...this computer is being kept fairly current...as the bios update of 2/2018 shows. This computer came with either a R 480 series or a Nvidia graphics. In any event, the poster seems to have been shipped the wrong computers...and I wouldn't have the one with the 480 graphics if it was given to me. Read some of the user comments.

                                 

                                However, a different model shows this > https://www.amazon.com/Dell-8910-Special-Silver-Desktop/dp/B0785SDHBF/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523637318&sr=8-3&keywords=…

                                  • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                    elstaci

                                    Found a DELL XPS8910 with a RX 560 at Ebay: NEW Dell XPS 8910 Mid-Tower NICELY LOADED Quad i7-6700 RX 560 1Tb 16Gb Win10 Pro 641275615782 | eBay . The description mentions a Customized Dell computer.

                                     

                                    When I go to DELL website and Input DELL XPS 8910 the only models that pop up are XPS 8930 models. Which indicates that Dell doesn't sell that particular model anymore (XPS 8910).

                                     

                                    When you google XPS 8910 and go to DELL.com it is showing the model from 2016 with the latest GTX 9xx series card. It is possible that Dell replaced the AMD R9 370 or Nvidia Card with a RX 560D to help sell it to Costco. That is just my opinion on how Costco ended up selling a Computer model that seems to have been customized for sale by Dell.

                                      • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                        kingfish

                                        Like the link I posted > https://www.amazon.com/Dell-8910-Special-Silver-Desktop/dp/B0785SDHBF/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523637318&sr=8-3&keywords=… Maybe it's the Silver Special...either way...I would return the computers to Cosco. There is enough facts to show that the poster did not get the version he thought he bought....why would any computer manufacturer have identical named computers with wildly different components. he was shipped the wrong computer...It would be helpful to see Cosco's advertisement for it.

                                          • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                            kingfish

                                            The RX 480 is much faster than the RX 560...which is a entry level (cheap) graphics.

                                             

                                            Screenshot_5.png

                                            Screenshot_6.png

                                            • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                              elstaci

                                              The GPU-Z image indicates he has a RX 560 card installed. It is possible Dell installed the Cutdown version of the RX 560 which is the RX 560D as mentioned by the OPS to cut costs on the computer system.  So does Radeon Settings image also indicate a RX 560.

                                               

                                              I saw your link and googled it to Dell.com. It is a 2016 model. These Desktops can be customized by the buyer. They can add or update many of the components from the base model. So he received what he bought. Looks like Costco ordered from Dell a customized version from the Base version. Your link proves that and the link from Ebay proves that.

                                               

                                              I agree, It would be helpful to see how Costco advertised the computers. If Costco purchased from DELL using the RX 560D they didn't advertise falsely when they said it had, according to the OPS, a "REAL AMD RX 560" Card. The card is a REAL RX 560 just a slower version.

                                                  • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                    elstaci

                                                    What is the OPS going to say to Costco, You lied to me. That is not the regular RX 560 but a slower version?  Costco is going to say they advertised a RX 560 just not what version.

                                                     

                                                    The OPS already mentioned that Costco would accept a return (Costco will accept these 3 computers back as returns (beyond 90 days) but wants to keep it due to "the deal was unbeatable" .

                                                     

                                                    That is why the deal was unbeatable because the computer had installed a cheaper slower version of the RX 560. If the computer had to regular version the price probably would have been much higher.

                                                      • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                        kingfish

                                                        I don't know what Cosco charged, but $699 is not bad here > Save Over 40 Percent on Dell's XPS Gaming Tower PC | PCMag.com

                                                          • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                            elstaci

                                                            It is a very good price for a startup computer. The computer case is large enough to add many other components to customize it the way you want in the future.

                                                              • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                                jaymille

                                                                Firstly, I acknowledged my sarcasm; I do so again and apologize.

                                                                 

                                                                The Costco Dell advertisement is attached.

                                                                 

                                                                As an aside, I haven't heard anyone mention having purchased a Gateway

                                                                computer in years.  I'm not exactly a novice; first computer was IBM

                                                                PC-XT quickly followed by PC-AT.  That was either Fall, 1984 or Winter

                                                                1985.  (I still have the sales receipts.)  I studied computer science,

                                                                earned 2 degrees but never worked in the field (or tried to stay

                                                                technically current.)  I am not a gamer.  The graphics issue only

                                                                concerns me from the truth-in-advertising standpoint.

                                                                 

                                                                To be accurate -given AMDs obfuscation of the facts, IMO- the RX 560

                                                                should have been labeled RX 560 D (or some other variant.)  With half

                                                                dozen RX 560 models now, to me, ... RX 560 means "original" 560 not

                                                                one of the cutdowns.  That's me.

                                                                 

                                                                The Dell 8910s work very well in fact the one I'm at right now is

                                                                powering a 3-Dell monitor array.  I have 7 Dell computers currently in

                                                                service and 4 Systemax BTO machines that are ~10 years old, still

                                                                running XP Pro.  (Anybody want an Alien Aurora XPS 710, for parts?)

                                                                 

                                                                The Costco Dell advertisement is attached.

                                                                 

                                                                When I look on Amazon there are a number of identically configured

                                                                machines (RX 560), all priced higher and 1 by "AppleTree fulfilled by

                                                                Amazon" (ASIN: B07B4QVKJS; $899) states "2018 Newest Dell Flagship

                                                                High Performance XPS 8910" with Windows 10 Pro.  So, while Dell no

                                                                longer has it on their website, ... I supposed it has been superceded

                                                                by 8920 and 8930.  All the Amazon 8910s have 'Date First Available" as

                                                                either December, 2017 or February, 2018 which is curious but

                                                                inconsequential.

                                                                 

                                                                Thank you one and all for input, opinion, detail clarification and

                                                                knowledge share.  Costco is not in the business of deceiving member

                                                                customers (in my ~15 years experience.)  As suggested, I think these

                                                                computers were configured by Dell -probably for Costco and other

                                                                vendors- and the AMD 560 was added for (perceived) value (and maybe

                                                                reduced component costs.)   I guess this horse has been beaten to

                                                                death although I am still waiting to hear back from Costco about

                                                                replacing the video cards with original 560 or other comparable.

                                                                Happy trails.  J

                                                                PS:  I signed in but still don't find how to post directly vs emailing

                                                                onto the chain.  J

                                                                2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                                  • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                                    elstaci

                                                                    First, Thanks for the apology. It shows you have a lot class. I also understand, you probably were highly upset when you replied.

                                                                     

                                                                    Costco and Dell knows that the majority of customers that purchase a computer are probably not tech savvy or aware of the type of computer components that are installed. The Customer purchase a computer, go home, and start using it without realizing that Costco or Dell installed cheaper GPU model to cut costs and make it appealing to the public for sale.

                                                                     

                                                                    Costco didn't lie, the computer does have a RX 560, just a cheaper and slower version. I, myself, didn't realize that AMD made several variants of this Model until you posted here. So, If I would have purchased this computer, I too, would have thought it would have been the original RX 560 and not a variant version.

                                                                     

                                                                    Like I mentioned to Kingfish, What Costco did was not false advertising and not illegal but I would consider it to be unethical business practice. They should have made a "Disclaimer" mentioning that the RX 560 was a variant of the original RX 560. At least, the tech savvy purchaser would be aware of what they are purchasing for the price they are paying.

                                                                     

                                                                    I guess that old cliche applies when buying an expensive product at a discount "Buyer beware" 

                                                                     

                                                                    BTW, Gateway computers used to be one of the best computer on the market for long time. They weren't cheap either. Systemax is a Tiger Direct computer right? Tigerdirect had a store less than 1.5 mile from my house. I was unhappy when they closed it down and now basically just deals with businesses. Their prices, IMO, were comparable to online prices.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hope Costco does the right thing and upgrades your RX 560. But don't be surprised if they say you need to pay extra.

                                                        • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                          elstaci

                                                          "There is enough facts to show that the poster did not get the version he thought he bought." where does it show that the OPS didn't get a RX 560 or a totally different model?

                                                           

                                                          He paid for a computer with a RX 560 and that is what he received. If Costco advertisement just mentions RX 560 they didn't lie. Costco just failed to mention which Variant of the RX 560 was installed. It looks like Unethical advertising not to mention the Variant RX 560 model but not illegal.

                                                           

                                                          Now if Costco advertised a computer with a RX 560 and instead got a very cheap and slower RX model with a different model number,  Than the OPS has reason to believe he got scammed.

                                              • Re: Radeon RX-560; I feel scammed.
                                                arcticwind

                                                I can understand your frustrations as I have fallen into the "OEM vs Retail" specs' trap myself a long time ago when I purchased my first desktop from Gateway Computers.  All computer manufacturers like Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc', use proprietary components (parts manufactured to their specifications) and system BIOS.  So there are a limited amount of customizations and upgrade choices available.  They would prefer that you just buy a new computer from them.   

                                                 

                                                Here is an old write up that that I found, that is still true for today and may help you in the future.  See the part under "Customization".

                                                Retail and OEM Components

                                                 

                                                I hope this is of some help...