31 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2018 9:02 AM by marekbujko

    Issues with older Direct X 9 Games

    nitro912gr

      I had a problem recently with the new drivers as I couldn't run specific old dx9 games (Witcher 1, Spellforce 2), at the time I though this is just my old 7850 that is getting dropped from support but now I see new reports that even newer GPUs have problem playing those games, so does made me wonder if AMD will no longer support dx9 games. I fixed this by doing a rollback to crimson but what is gonna happen if I want to get a new AMD GPU?

       

      It is very important for me to know because I have a big backlog with a lot of dx9 games that now I start to play (because you know, adult life...) and I don't want to upgrade my 7850 with a newer card just to find out that it can't play those games.

       

      Please specify what is gonna happen with dx9 games, sure they are old but not that old to not being enjoyable today and they are being still sold and played by people.

       

      Message was edited by: Nikolas Karampelas title fixed :P

       

      Title Edited to indicate true position

        • Re: AMD officailly end support for dx9 games?
          jakslap

          There has been recent reports that the latest crimson drivers break command and conquer games, i am not sure if they are gonna address this. If you need to upgrade your card there is always Nvidia.

           

          This is a thread about issues with new drivers, an AMD representative responded you might find interesting

           

          Adrenalin driver breaks Command & Conquer games

          6 of 7 people found this helpful
            • Re: AMD officailly end support for dx9 games?
              nitro912gr

              Yeah I did read this but I want a clear official statement to be sure if they will drop support or it is just second priority to fix this.

               

              As for the nvidia option, I don't like it, I'm red team since forever, I could hate to change to nvidia but I'm not willing to maintain a "vintage" system to being able to play games that are still sold and played by people. After all I have 7850 for many years now, what I will do if the card fail after all those years of service?

              1 of 1 people found this helpful
              • Re: AMD officially end support for dx9 games?
                orochi_kyo

                Last Nvidia drivers broke some games for me like Broforce, Stardew Valley and other DX9 games, where do you suggest to jump next to people who are tired of the constant bugs in Nvidia Control Panel?
                We need a third dedicated GPU manufacturer, Nvidia also broke many stuff everytime they release a new driver and they just stay silent... Both companies are just bad right now...

              • Re: AMD officailly end support for dx9 games?
                revelator

                agree but fix title OFFICIALLY.

                2 of 3 people found this helpful
                • Re: AMD officially end support for dx9 games?
                  junk11

                  I just built a whole new PC with full AMD spec from CPU to GPU last year, and suddenly this happens… I guess if they don't fix this, this is the end of my "future support" for AMD for sure, well…if Nvidia doesn't break games like this.

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                    • Re: AMD officially end support for dx9 games?
                      nitro912gr

                      as I said in another thread, they can lock all the threads in the world if they want, but this is not gonna keep me as a customer. A clear answer however probably will.

                      And I always had ati/amd cards, it is not like I'm here to troll, I want to know how to plan my next upgrade.

                       

                      If AMD want to drop dx9 support, that's fine but I want to know once I'm about to order my GPU what it can and it can not do.

                       

                      If I had just recently got the 570 that I so desperately want (but the prices, thanks to miners are skyrocketed) just to discover a couple of driver updates later that it can no longer play my games (which it was able to do, so amd intentionally broke functionality that the card had) I could be very pissed.

                       

                      If amd want to drop support for dx9 they can hold till their next line 6XX and just say "listen guys dx9 is old, we don't support it from now on" and this will be perfectly fine, but I want to know prior the purchase.

                      • Re: AMD officially end support for dx9 games?
                        amdmatt

                        Please keep your posts on topic, I've had to remove a couple from this thread.

                         

                        Might be worthwhile reading the Terms and Conditions of the forum before making any further posts.

                        Terms and Conditions

                      • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                        jakslap

                        Totally agree with everyone that is upset about the current situation. DX9 games are still relevant today they are still being sold in online stores like Steam and Origins. Most of the top games are DX9 these days. I honestly think we have to let them know that this would not be tolerated, if this driver update has broken Command and Conquer, the Witcher and  god knows what else, whats stopping them with breaking other games like Burnout, Modern Warfare, Max Payne 3,Alan Wake, Anno 2070, Bioshock, Dirt 2, Crysis, GTA4  etc etc.

                         

                        Dropping support for DX9 essential mean dropping support for a large backlog of games which are still modern and being played online today.

                        And what about DX10 games?????? Whats stopping AMD to drop support for those? #Mantle #BF4 and i am not going to get started why i purchased a R9 280x over the Nvidia equivalent at the time.

                         

                        These are the questions we have to ask our selves. Jeez even Microsoft is pushing out backwards compatibility to allow there customers to play ORIGINAL XBOX GAMES on the Xbox One. How old are these original Xbox Games?

                         

                        I don't know about you guys but i am going to spread this info as much as i can even after selling my RX580. This is totally disgusting. I would really like a reply from ray_m about this current situation us the customers deserve to know whats going on

                        • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                          tag75

                          Don't worry guys Terry Makedon at catalyst maker has said all will be good for dx9 games.

                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                              pokester

                              I follow Terry on Twitter and I trust what he says. I'm sure they will fix this bug soon. I hopes so, because I originally came to AMD because the green team years ago had a habit of making room for new games in their drivers by removing older games optimizations.

                              I don't know how everyone else is but I revisit my favorite games frequently. New games often don't even get a few hours before I decide I am done with it. So when the drivers break a game like the Witcher 1 that I have many hours of game play in, yes I wan't it fixed. Also DX9 still has by far the biggest game library, with new titles still coming out.

                              Please AMD get this fixed quickly & shame on you if you don't.

                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                              plumboby

                              I am new to AMD tho if you want a work around for older games which does work going off a m8 thats run into a simular issue not me as of yet touch wood. DX9 games are supported a bug had come through AMD is resolving nothing has been stated about not supporting dx9 titles as they were running on previous updates. Either roll back to a previous driver of if your technically minded & know the files to look for go threw the games library of the game files saved an adjust the binaries of to get the games to run & adjust to suit. I know of a few on U Tubes doing a work around to get older games to run. Its not an AMD fault either if your using steam is a bug thats come threw the system because of the high amounts buying games & buying new videocards. ! issue has been has been i know of games threw steam loading up the wrong drivers for older games. If using steam for older games Validate game integrity helps a lot wiping corrupted or wrong drivers which sometimes does run the issue. I found the new steam updates & MS updates have favored nvidia atm coz of the $ nvidia is throwing at them for there crap products & service. Dont worry AMD will resolve these issues as they will & are prety good to deal with wait with patience or look for work arounds. A few on U Tube & other forums that have worked out the issue.

                              • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                colesdav

                                It looks like is fixed in 18.1.1 Driver.
                                The Witcher Enhanced Edition is running fine for me now.

                                It would not even launch with Adrenalin 17.12.1 or 17.12.2.

                                Bye.

                                • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                  pokester

                                  Glad to see they finally listed 18.1.1 on the driver page where it can actually help most people. Been using it for weeks now since being posted in the forums here. I know I commented about why it still wasn't on the driver page yesterday then poof there it was!

                                    • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                      colesdav

                                      I think the 18.1.1 listed is a Beta driver, I think the previous one was an Alpha driver?
                                      Beta ... usually means there has been more testiing and possibly some additional coding changes in the driver.
                                      They might be exactly the same of course, but if you are  running the Alpha driver you might be better off running the Beta one instead.
                                      Bye.

                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                        • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                          marekbujko

                                          Yes. Final is WHQL only. 18.1.1 is beta, because is not WHQL verified.

                                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                              colesdav

                                              Yes thanks, sometimes WHQL drivers do not turn up for whatever reason.
                                              Possibly a Beta driver is an "interim fix" and there is a newer driver going through WHQL certification anyhow.
                                              In any case Adrenalin 18.1.1 Beta is the most stable of the Adrenalin Drivers I have seen yet.
                                              There are still some issues to iron out on my PC Systems but I am keeping it installed on my Windows 10 and 7 OS.
                                              I think it is worth at least testing it to see if it is stable enough for most users now.  
                                              Bye.

                                                • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                  marekbujko

                                                  Is this a problem. Ex. Nvidia publishes WHQL drivers (1-2 Beta per year). On the page you can see which drivers are WHQL and which are not.

                                                  Which is latest WHQL driver from AMD? 17.12.1 or 17.12.2 fix?

                                                  17.12.1 WHQL (12 Dec 2017)

                                                  17.12.2 Beta (20 Dec 2017)

                                                  18.1.1 Alpha (4 Jan 2018)

                                                  18.1.1 Beta (18 Jan 2018)

                                                    • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                      colesdav

                                                      Hi,

                                                       

                                                      I was not making an issue of lack of WHQL driver for Adrenalin 18.1.1. I am usiing the  Beta driver on Windows 7 and 10 64bit.

                                                       

                                                      I think WHQL means the drivers pass whatever tests Microsoft runs and the driver gets digitally signed by Microsoft and might be available for automatic install by Windows OS for example.


                                                      WHQL seems to indicate more testing on more hardware has been completed and passed which should be a good thing.

                                                       

                                                      However an AMD GPU driver being WHQL certified does not mean it will not crash on any particular system as far as I have experienced it.

                                                       

                                                      It does not seem to be easy to tell which AMD Driver is WHQL/Beta/Alpha unless you read the release notes / look for WHQL/Alpha/Beta in the driver download name.  


                                                      I am more interested and concerned about in Windows 8.1 64bit and Linux OS Support from Nvidia versus AMD.
                                                      AMD seem to be going backwards on these fronts.

                                                       

                                                      I know on Windows 8.1 64bit the last WHQL driver was 17.4.4 because that is the main Windows OS I use at present.
                                                      AMD dropped support for Windows 8.1 64bit. So for me Adrenalin Driver does not really exist.
                                                      I am essentially stuck on Crimson ReLive 17.4.4/17.7.1. 

                                                       

                                                      I moved my R9 Nano to secondary PCIe Slot since Windows 8.1 64bit was dropped.
                                                      I now run an Nvidia GTX 780Ti as my main GPU on Windows 8.1 64bit for ~  8 months now.
                                                      I still get regular driver updates and I have not had a single crash or problem with it. It runs most 1080p games fine with no problems.
                                                      ShadowPlay was improved after the launch of AMD ReLive and it runs great.

                                                      I do not like having to log into Nvidia GeForce Experience to use ShadowPlay though.
                                                      There are other recording software options available though.
                                                      I have a Steam Library with 100's of games, mostly modern AAA titles, mostly they run fine. In some cases the slower 3GB of Vram is a problem versus 4GB HBM on the R9 Nano.

                                                       

                                                      Nvidia also provide drivers for Ubuntu 16.04 LTS that actually install easily and work well and have a GUI which allows setting and reporting various GPU parameters.

                                                       

                                                      I have had many problems with installing the latest AMDGPU-PRO drivers on Ubuntu16.04 LTS and Centos. I am having problems setting up Vulkan SDK to run properly.

                                                       

                                                      I would need to check what was the last Windows 7 64 bit and/or Windows 10 64bit OS WHQL Driver.I installed to be certain.

                                                      I have found the Crimson ReLive drivers from 17.7.2 up to 17.11.1 on Windows 10 64bit to be less stable than 17.4.4. on Windows 8.1 64bit. 

                                                       

                                                      Windows 7 64 bit OS is coming towards end of extended Support in less than 2 years from  now.  It is time people were looking for other options.

                                                      Windows 8.1 64 bit  will still be on Extended Support for another 5 years. That buys some time if you look for an alternative OS.
                                                      Windows 10 64 bit OS is not an option I am interested in for anything other than testing/running DX12 games and because others use it.
                                                      I am trying to move to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS as much as possible instead.

                                                       

                                                      More info on Microsoft Windows Lifecycle here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

                                                        • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                          pokester

                                                          I agree with your explanation completely! WHQL is their to make IT guys feel warm and fuzzy and be able to shift blame when something goes wrong! Your boss always looks at you funny when stuff doesn't work right and you have to say well I was using the Beta driver not the certified one.

                                                          WHQL just means it was double checked by MS and they say it meets quality and security standards. Seeing as these things are a moving target for MS today and they can't even properly check their own stuff anymore, I would not let WHQL lure you into a fall sense of security. It really means nothing and slows down the driver making it to the end user. Most of the best drivers I have used over the years have been beta drivers.

                                                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                              colesdav

                                                              If it is just for gaming then fine I do not care so much, but for some work I do I need to use WHQL drivers as a specification.
                                                              Provided WHQL certification does involve additional testing on additional hardware, it can only be good from reliability perspective.
                                                              My Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 64 bit OS are all patched and mostly seem to work well.
                                                              It is simply that I do not wish to use Windows 10 64bit consumer versions.


                                                    • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                      pokester

                                                      Don't know, because no change in the driver number. It is exactly the same, has the same release notes verbatim. The files have same time stamp and file size. Nothing said one way or the other by AMD. So maybe just a move verbally from Alpha to Beta? I doubt you need to reload this driver if you already have the alpha loaded. Even Radeon settings doesn't show an update available. Either way glad it's up for the masses as it will help a lot more people now. Maybe AMD could be more clear on this?

                                                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                        • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                          marekbujko

                                                          I use still WHQL drivers, because non-WHQL AMD drivers have still problems on my RX 480 8 GB. I do not play games so often. I do not cryptomining. I use GPU for work also and I came across unstable drivers with slow transfer rate data to GPU or unstable activating stream processors, crash software/games, slow loading games on SSD etc. etc. On WHQL work for me all stable, what I use.

                                                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                              pokester

                                                              I by no means was implying you should use beta drivers over WHQL. Only that trying Beta drivers if you are experiencing an issue is worth a shot over waiting for WHQL drivers with hopefully the same fix.

                                                               

                                                              I say hopefully because I have seen over the years where a beta driver that has a fix comes out yet the next WHQL driver that comes out after does not have that beta fix in it. Mostly because it was submitted for WHQL before they fixed the old driver with the new beta. Release date is not necessarily an indicator of driver age. And when I said I have had beta drivers that were best for me, it is because they fixed the specific problem I had, but by the time the WHQL driver with the fix came out, it broke something else.

                                                               

                                                              Unfortunately no one size fits all approach here, if there were this forum probably wouldn't exist.

                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                            • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                              colesdav

                                                              Hi,

                                                               

                                                              I didn't try the 18.1.1 alpha at all. The word "alpha" on AMD Driver makes me nervous ;-).

                                                               

                                                              Cheers.

                                                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                                • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                                  pokester

                                                                  I wouldn't if you're having no issues. I rarely change drivers unless I am having a problem at work. At home I may change them occassionally to stay up-to-date so to speak. Even then I typically only load the WHQL drivers unless an issue. However since last March on my home computer not the work ones, I have loaded every new driver in hopes of fixing still present problems.

                                                                   

                                                                  If you have any issues on your home rig and haven't given 18.1.1 a try, I wouldn't be scared. I'd say like 90% positive feedback on them so far from most posts.

                                                          • Re: Issues with older Direct X 9 Games
                                                            marekbujko

                                                            Driver 18.1.1 fix start DX9 games, but don't fix discoloration in DX9 games.