PC Processors

[Tufio]

I beg you i'm going crazy

Stock cooler (had some cheap coolermaster with the **bleep** "pin" block, was very hard to set it and it spilled paste on the sides, can this be the problem? inside is clean)
msi b450 gaming plus max
msi get force 1660 super 6gb
crucial ssd m2 250gb mx 500 2280 (windows 10 pro here) and seagate 1tb
be quiet pure power 11 500w
be quiet pure base case
hyper x  dimm fury refresh ram 3200 8x2
Pc is from early october, made it myself

Problem: mostly fast reboots, rare blue screens
dump: https://easyupload.io/gycby0
Is the WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR event 18

Those reboots mostly always happens right after system start, by opening a video or using the search in windows, or else after a couple hours during some low activity like browsing, youtube or league of legends.

I never crashed in bios.
Never crashed during heavy gaming load or OCCT. ( bu i suppose it was jsut "stable day")

Now, after those reboots the ryzen behavior.. change and i have the core number 6 stuck like this: (also voltage stuck over 1.4 and higher temps)

This is idle but core 6 IS ALWAYS over 4mhz.
For some reason, the pc is 100% stable with this, never crashed or rebooted.
After restart it go back to normal (all cores go in idle, 35-40 idle temp) and the reboot lottery start.
I'm 100% clueless.

I updated everything, updated the bios, did 2 cicles of memtest and all OCCT stuff for 1h, 0 errors.
Windows is fully updated, i do dism/sfc often and no errors.
Bios settings are stock default, only xmp 1 enabled for 3200. (but disabling or going 2 for 3000 change nothing)

Now, most days the pc is stable, had even 18 consecutive days of no reboot until few days ago, i use it 14h/day.

Pc is recent, fresh windows pro 10 recent iso, the extra stuff at start are just mouse program, mozilla maint, realtek audio and Nvidia display.

Do pc load with something wrong?
Is cpu defective/damaged? (but still can work well for 18 days?)
Maybe the mobo or something is sending wrong voltage? How do i check? I don't have more ryzen or recent mobo around.

[mstfbsrn980]

Restart problems occur if PSU or CPU or motherboard VRM is overheating. The WHEA error is usually caused by the motherboard VRM not supplying the processor with proper voltage due to the PSU or the BIOS. 

EDIT: You have to buy a good PSU. Considering your future GPU upgrade, 750w gold or better PSU. Unless you run your system with a good PSU, it will be difficult to resolve the error messages.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Restart problems occur if PSU or CPU or motherboard VRM is overheating. The WHEA error is usually caused by the motherboard VRM not supplying the processor with proper voltage due to the PSU or the BIOS. 

EDIT: You have to buy a good PSU. Considering your future GPU upgrade, 750w gold or better PSU. Unless you run your system with a good PSU, it will be difficult to resolve the error messages.

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Is not like i have a cheap PSU, 3600 and super 1660 need way less than 500w.
But as i said, i get the reboots at low temp/use.

How can i check the voltage problem?

What about the cpu number 6 core thing? Is normal? I also noticed the core become absent in OCCT.

Anyway, more crash dumps from october:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnQ4g2Vrik9YggVyKL2MxI9GrwX3?e=4bGFTG

Updating stuff (if is that) improved stability a bit, i got no bluescreen and less reboots in november.

[mstfbsrn980]

The weather is getting colder. Maybe that's the reason. Don't be afraid to buy a new and expensive PSU. Your money will not be wasted. Also I could not download the blue screen files. You can also increase the stabilization by going to the CPU core voltage with the BIOS and increasing it from 1.4 to 1.5. The CPU temperature will increase as increasing the voltage. Pay attention to this and increase your computer experience.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

The weather is getting colder. Maybe that's the reason. Don't be afraid to buy a new and expensive PSU. Your money will not be wasted. Also I could not download the blue screen files. You can also increase the stabilization by going to the CPU core voltage with the BIOS and increasing it from 1.4 to 1.5. The CPU temperature will increase as increasing the voltage. Pay attention to this and increase your computer experience.

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Please, don't ask people to toss a 80euro/100$ PSU for a "maybe is the weather".  (did a couple OCCT voltage test and no errors)
I got 500w as ryzen and 1660 do not need more at all, i don't want to oc, i stay at 1080/60. (and only in gaming, i still desktop/internet at 1280*720)

Wait, it is fine to keep windows 10 at 1280*720?

Or ryzen 3600 can't work with 500w?

[mstfbsrn980]

Of course it works. But you said that it is restarting... Where should we look for the error when you are using 500w?

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Of course it works. But you said that it is restarting... Where should we look for the error when you are using 500w?

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I don't follow, having 500w means you can't troubleshoot?

Explain a bit.

I have a 7 years old vp 650w in the old pc.

[mstfbsrn980]

Let me explain as much as I can. When a PSU generates power close to its capacity, it will both heat up and lose voltage stabilization. If it gets too hot or is too close to its capacity, it cuts off the power. If it is generating power close to its capacity so that it does not need to cut the power, then it is very likely that the voltage stabilization will lose. It can give a WHEA error when it loses voltage stability. It may also cause restart error with cutting off the power.

[qbtheslayer]

Forget the PSU for now...  It's a decent enough unit and your system does not need to have more power.

I just ran 9 instances of ATTO on each HDD/SSD/USB HDD, Furmark, and Prime95 (small FFTs)... Opened up iCUE and my AX860i reported a peak max Power In of 486 W... Idle is about 160W

I have a 3700X, 5700XT, H100i, and more HDDs/SSDs than most sane people have...  So I highly doubt your PSU is the problem.

Do you have the latest BIOS for your motherboard?  Do you have the latest AMD Chipset drivers?  Are you using one of the AMD Ryzen Power Plans (Balance or Performance)?

QB

[mstfbsrn980]

Restart problem is caused by either the mobo or the PSU. You have written everything except these. I have something today. :D I'm OK for this...

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Restart problem is caused by either the mobo or the PSU. You have written everything except these. I have something today. :D I'm OK for this...

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I did?

The mobo is a msi b450 gaming plus max
The psu is a be quiet pure power 11 gold 500w (german company, big here in EU)

This is my PSU:

https://www.amazon.com/quiet-BN293-Quiet-Power-Hardware/dp/B07JJH9XLP/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=...

But how do i troubleshoot mobo for voltage problems?

[Tufio]

@qbtheslayer wrote:

Forget the PSU for now...  It's a decent enough unit and your system does not need to have more power.

I just ran 9 instances of ATTO on each HDD/SSD/USB HDD, Furmark, and Prime95 (small FFTs)... Opened up iCUE and my AX860i reported a peak max Power In of 486 W... Idle is about 160W

I have a 3700X, 5700XT, H100i, and more HDDs/SSDs than most sane people have...  So I highly doubt your PSU is the problem.

Do you have the latest BIOS for your motherboard?  Do you have the latest AMD Chipset drivers?  Are you using one of the AMD Ryzen Power Plans (Balance or Performance)?

QB

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Yes, i reboot in idle or low load, never did during heavy load, ran alot of max voltage test in OCCT. (pc goes nowhere near 500w)

Bios and chipset are updated, always used ryzen balanced but i changed to performance yesterday, let's try like that. (what does change?)

Disabled sleep/ibernation/hd shut dow, also disabled pc restart after crash so i get the dumps. (but nothing, just fast reboots)

Wait, do my cheap ssd m2 is ok for the os? it is supposed to be compatible with the mobo but i'm new about those m2 things. (before you ask, ram is compatible with bot ryzen and mobo)

This: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX500-250GB-2280SS-Internal/dp/B077SL4FZG

[mstfbsrn980]

You cannot fix the problem by testing your system. Reset the BIOS to factory settings and set the CPU CORE RATIO to 34 for testing the CPU+mobo. This may reduce the problems you are experiencing. If you are still getting the blue screen error then, you may suspect the mobo and other components.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

You cannot fix the problem by testing your system. Reset the BIOS to factory settings and set the CPU CORE RATIO to 34 for testing the CPU+mobo. This may reduce the problems you are experiencing. If you are still getting the blue screen error then, you may suspect the mobo and other components.

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The multiplier?

Looking at CPU-Z i have 36, spiking 33 or 40-2.

How normal is for stock 3600 to go 4.2mhz with the cores?
No one can tell me about the restart with the core 6 stuck at max? is that normal ryzen behavior?

Those new multicore CPU are so complicated...

[mstfbsrn980]

Yeah. Would you drop the multiplier and try like I said?

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Yeah. Would you drop the multiplier and try like I said?

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How safe it that? Today i need this pc for work.

Will try later.

[mstfbsrn980]

If it wasn't safe, I would have made the necessary warning. Decreasing the multiplier does not harm your system. And I suggest you decrease the multiplier and use your system at these settings for 1-2 days and try to find the problem.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

If it wasn't safe, I would have made the necessary warning. Decreasing the multiplier does not harm your system. And I suggest you decrease the multiplier and use your system at these settings for 1-2 days and try to find the problem.

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Well, had another reboot and so i restarted doing the 34.

I confirm i have 34 multiplier in CPU-Z.

Right, the reboot generated a new WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR

Here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnQ4g2Vrik9YggnLYjr2OiW3ZFwD?e=iYw3JK (do link works?)

Ok, and now?

[mstfbsrn980]

Does the system restart after the blue screen? Or does the system restart without the blue screen appearing? If you mean the restart after the blue screen, then there is no need to doubt the PSU. Can you remove your processor and try it with another motherboard? This way you can understand what's wrong.

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't use the Ryzen Master program and 3rd party software that would affect the stabilization of the system. I have read that Ryzen Master has vulnerabilities, but I don't know if there is a problem.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Does the system restart after the blue screen? Or does the system restart without the blue screen appearing? If you mean the restart after the blue screen, then there is no need to doubt the PSU. Can you remove your processor and try it with another motherboard? This way you can understand what's wrong.

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't use the Ryzen Master program and 3rd party software that would affect the stabilization of the system. I have read that Ryzen Master has vulnerabilities, but I don't know if there is a problem.

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Most of the time i only have reboots, even in succession, but no blue screen and so almost no dumps. (i have already removed the auto restart after crash setting)

Had one dump today and one a week ago, the whea from the link.
My last bluescreen was... 25 days ago maybe. (well, same cause)

But as i said, i also had 18+ days of no crash/reboots until a week ago.
This rebooting is very random.

I don't have a ryzen mobo or a second ryzen around.

I only use ryzen master for monitoring, is still a problem? Well i'm keeping it or OCCT open alot those days.

[mstfbsrn980]

Could you perform a clean Windows 10 installation with an USB stick? Could you try the system clearly for a while without installing Ryzen Master? Of course, before Windows 10 installation, reset the BIOS to factory settings. Of course, disconnect unnecessary disk and USB devices before installation. I hope you can find the source of the error.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Could you perform a clean Windows 10 installation with an USB stick? Could you try the system clearly for a while without installing Ryzen Master? Of course, before Windows 10 installation, reset the BIOS to factory settings. Of course, disconnect unnecessary disk and USB devices before installation. I hope you can find the source of the error.

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I can but i want to try everything before formatting.
Well, i already have all drivers and stuff saved.

Factory setting means remove the battery?

So what else i can do now, what about the 34 multiplier?

[mstfbsrn980]

No. You don't need to remove the motherboard battery. Turn on the computer by always pressing DEL key. See the BIOS screen. Then return to factory settings and restart the computer. Uninstall the Ryzen Master program and use your computer in factory settings.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

No. You don't need to remove the motherboard battery. Turn on the computer by always pressing DEL key. See the BIOS screen. Then return to factory settings and restart the computer. Uninstall the Ryzen Master program and use your computer in factory settings.

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There is a "return to factory setting" option?

Or do you mean the press f6 for optimized default? I already have that.

Ok gonna get rid of ryzen master.

Edit
Ok wait here a minute... i'm reading crazy stuff about ryzen master, about how it can rewrite even the bios default, i hope is a old version bug.

Is this the reason my cpu do the high voltage, core 6 max? Did i f*cked up the defaults?

Can someone please tell me how a ryzen 3600 works at stock? It is normal for the cores to go 4200mhz?

What to do

[rainingtacco]

4200mhz is a little high, maybe with good cooling, usually it boost to 4100mhz. No ryzen master doesn't overwrite bios. 

I think everything is normal with your cpu settings. I too suspect PSU

-CPU doesn't crash at gaming =good. Ram too, GPU too, the only thing that might be **bleep**ed is either some driver[do a clean windows install] or your storage and when OS is loading it somehow hit that "bad sector". 

[mstfbsrn980]

Usually a PSU may cause random restart problems. But with Ryzen Master program, I saw an amateur trying to overclock and then getting restart error. So I can't tell what's wrong since you used this program. I think you should not use the program and try to make the system stable by making system changes with BIOS. The motherboard user manual contains information on how to access the BIOS and how to reset the BIOS to factory settings. Sorry, I am not knowledgeable enough to direct a person who is just starting to use a computer. Because each system BIOS can differ. I'm just saying what could be wrong.

[Tufio]

So... is not normal for ryzen 3600 to boost AT STOCK SETTINGS the cores up to 4200mhz? I had a overclocked cpu all along?

Right, when i open ryzen master after the reboots, sometimes i get a "settings reverted to default due to error" or something like that... but i barely changed anything ever and i'm sure the reboots started before doing it. (still, i installed ryzen master very soon, before the updated chipsets)

But do this means i have more than one cpu setting and they swap? How does this works?

[quote]or your storage and when OS is loading it somehow hit that "bad sector". [/quote]

Ok how do i check storage? As i said i have a "cheap" ssd m2, maybe it's no good?

I have crystal disk.

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Usually a PSU may cause random restart problems. But with Ryzen Master program, I saw an amateur trying to overclock and then getting restart error. So I can't tell what's wrong since you used this program. I think you should not use the program and try to make the system stable by making system changes with BIOS. The motherboard user manual contains information on how to access the BIOS and how to reset the BIOS to factory settings. Sorry, I am not knowledgeable enough to direct a person who is just starting to use a computer. Because each system BIOS can differ. I'm just saying what could be wrong.

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There is nothing about "factory settings" on manual or anything.

I have 2 things, press 6 for "optimized default settings" (so everything goes auto/disabled), and i already did that weeks ago.

And short the jumper for reset bios.

[rainingtacco]

Why do you use ryzen master at all? Uninstall that, reset bios. 

[Tufio]

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@rainingtacco wrote:

Why do you use ryzen master at all? Uninstall that, reset bios. 

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I only got it for monitoring as i read other programs can't read ryzen well.
So what programs are approved here to see temps?

For the moment the pc seems to be stable using forced 34 multiplier, well is still very early to tell.

I unistastalled ryzen master, do i jumper reset mobo and run stock? Or do i wait to see if 34 also reboots?

[mstfbsrn980]

Please read carefully what I am writing. Apply 34 multiplier with the BIOS (with CPU CORE RATIO value). But does this fix the problem? My purpose for suggesting this was just to test! I gave you this suggestion to test the motherboard voltage stabilization.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Please read carefully what I am writing. Apply 34 multiplier with the BIOS (with CPU CORE RATIO value). But does this fix the problem? My purpose for suggesting this was just to test! I gave you this suggestion to test the motherboard voltage stabilization.

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Yes i put 34 in core ratio in the bios, and now i have 34 multiplier.
And you just said to keep it a couple days.

So, how do i test voltage?

The pc is running fine, but as i said the reboots "phase" can come and go every few days or weeks.

[mstfbsrn980 · Accepted solution]

If your computer is working properly with 34 multiplier, we will give 36 multiplier and we will increase the voltage. You will probably be using your PC without any problems. That's all! The reason for this voltage boosting requirement is because you don't have a good BIOS or a good PSU. But your random restart problem is still puzzling me.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

If your computer is working properly with 34 multiplier, we will give 36 multiplier and we will increase the voltage. You will probably be using your PC without any problems. That's all! The reason for this voltage boosting requirement is because you don't have a good BIOS or a good PSU. But your random restart problem is still puzzling me.

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Very well, let's see if the 34 stability last.

I really don't understand my problem.
I mean, the settings change, the reboots are at low use but i also had 18 days clean.

But i believe new chipsets helped, i had way more reboots in october and also blue screens.

Can spilling termal paste be the problem? The right and top side out of cpu external lodge (nothing got inside) got pretty dirty.
And in the end that coolermaster worked no better than stock cooler. (pin setting was never fully straight)

Anything else i can test now?

[mstfbsrn980]

I am trying to show you how to solve your simple computer problems. This is my goal!

EDIT: Use it for a while. Make sure there is no problem. I will tell you, as far as I understand, what to do if you turn to me.

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

I am trying to show you how to solve your simple computer problems. This is my goal!

EDIT: Use it for a while. Make sure there is no problem. I will tell you, as far as I understand, what to do if you turn to me.

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Ok, one week using 34 and no problems.

What now?

[mstfbsrn980]

Set the CPU core ratio to 36 and manually set the CPU core voltage with the BIOS. Try to find the correct value by increasing the CPU core voltage starting from 1.4 to 1.5. Frankly, I would try to find the correct voltage with 1.46 or 1.47 values.

[Ownz]

Are we realy sugesting to use 1.45v on the cpu? Nice way to kill a cpu in a couple of weeks 

[Tufio]

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@Ownz wrote:

Are we realy sugesting to use 1.45v on the cpu? Nice way to kill a cpu in a couple of weeks 

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Eh, i had that with the reboot thing, 45-50° at idle.

Now i have 35°.

[mstfbsrn980]

Set CPU Core Ratio to auto. Temperature rise is normal. Slowly reduce the voltage and use your system stably with the most stable and cold voltage. 

Do you understand me?

[Tufio]

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@mstfbsrn980 wrote:

Set CPU Core Ratio to auto. Temperature rise is normal. Slowly reduce the voltage and use your system stably with the most stable and cold voltage. 

Do you understand me?

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Ok, i get it.

I'm manually overclocking(or underclocking) until i find some "sweet stable spot" with the lowest voltage and the most Mhz, right?

Pc worked very well this week, maybe the 34 is already at it. (i mean, i use standard full hd/60 and i have a 1660 super, i was going for a ryzen 2600 but found 3600 discounted)
Will try 36 tomorrow.

Now, i want someone to explain to me the boost thing.
As i understood, this ryzen can push a single core to 4200 and all the core to 4100, and this as a normal stock fuction?
Do this can be disabled/enabled/changed in the bios?