PC Processors

[peterq94]

Dear AMD Community,

I have question about warranty policy for Ryzen processors (3-rd generation) reference to XMP profile for RAM memory. If I enable XMP profile 1,35 V and 3200 Mhz speed I will lost my warranty for AMD Ryzen processor? This recommended speed - 3200 Mhz for 3-rd generation Ryzen processor is reference only for JEDEC specification memory? I must know about it. You can past some links from AMD website to prove your knowledge about this.

Maybe people from AMD can answer for this question? XMP memory are very popular now but people don't say that this can be problem with warranty. On AMD YouTube channel also these memory are very popular. I don't find video on AMD channel with JEDEC memory.


Thanks for your time.

[mstfbsrn980]

No. You will not lose your warranty. Anyway the processors and the chipsets do not allow too high RAM speeds with BIOSs. In other words, you cannot run your RAMs at a speed that will break the warranty.

[peterq94]

I asked ASUS and they told me that if I enable D.O.C.P I can lost warranty for motherboard because this is overclocking and it is beyond JEDEC specification. If I will buy memory and I don't enable XMP profile my memory will be run at low speed 2133 Mhz or 2400 Mhz so it is not good to performance. On AMD website I found this:

"Overclocking memory will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even if such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer or motherboard vendor. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking memory, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to RAM/hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. GD-112"

Link: https://www.amd.com/en/partner/amd-builds-great-foundations 

And this "DDR4-2667 is the maximum supported JEDEC speed for AMD Ryzen™ processors, for one DIMM per channel of single-rank DDR4. For speeds above DDR4-2667, many modules employ a non-standard overclocking profile "XMP 2.0" for increased speeds with non-JEDEC timings and voltages."


I know that 3-rd generation have support for DDR4-3200 probably by JEDEC speed but I think that XMP profile will be means like overclocking so this will be void my warranty. On the market I found only 3 or 4 modules for JEDEC 3200 Mhz specification but they are expensive and not available.


I will wait for AMD people answer.

[mstfbsrn980]

Using your system by selecting the highest XMP profile with the BIOS will not leave you out of warranty.
XMP implements the stable speeds offered by the manufacturer.
Some changes you make other than choosing a XMP profile, or a software such as Ryzen Master may make your system run faster, and such situations may leave your system out of warranty.
If any of the motherboard parts that could be damaged by the OC are damaged, they will not provide you with warranty service. But these parts have nothing to do with just selecting a XMP profile.

[pokester]

According to AMD XMP, DOCP, PBO are all considered overclocks. AMD support may consider your warranty void if used. It is ridiculous and they have no way of knowing if you used it. So best bet is to just say you didn't. They can't tell unless you tell them. 

That being said as Zen2 technically supports 3200 but you have to enable XMP to get that? Or is anything over 3200 like 3400 or 3600 an overclock. 

The truth is that by standards though all memory using XMP speed does overclcock the processor as the memory controller is on the CPU. 

It is ludicrous though to deny warranty though for using and advertised speed. But some speeds that they call the sweet spot 3600 and this is AMD themselves in benchmarking by what support says will void your warranty if you use it. 

JUST DON'T TELL THEM IF YOU HAVE TO RMA

[mstfbsrn980]

High-speed RAM usage makes it lighter for applications that require high CPU load. So high speed RAMs reduce the load on the processor. You know this information wrongly. In addition, the processor-chipset pair does not provide bus frequency change and processor buffer rate increase by XMP profile selection.

[pokester]

You keep on thinking whatever you like, I know you will. 

First off I made ZERO comment on what ram does with load.

So how I am wrong is beyond me since I made no such comment to begin with?

A quick search of google and you can find videos from Gamers Nexus, Jay Two Cents, Linus Tech Tips and countless others explaining that yes XMP does technically overclock the processor. 

I don't personally think it is anything harmful.

As usual you concentrate on calling other users wrong. 

Bottom line is I answered the OP not you and the OP is welcome to follow whatever advice they like. 

If the OP wants an answer from AMD they can contact AMD support and get the same answer I gave that has been reported in these forums many, many, many times over and stated by forum mods as well.

[mstfbsrn980]

If a processor supports faster RAMs, these RAMs put less load on this processor for an unit thread.
Because of this, this processor's performance increases, but the reason for this increase is not OC.
RAM controllers for new generation processors are in processors. But this does not indicate that this condition is OC.
With an XMP profile selection, processors are not broken. Even processors are not broken for any reason.

Some motherboards increase some values, such as TDP limit, with the XMP profile selection. I think the main point of ASUS support is not to increase the speed of RAM only. So the BIOS may not implement this XMP properly. XMP selection may be causing OC. This is the point, I think.

In short, ASUS support said do not change the settings you do not know for OP. I may have misunderstood what you wrote. It's okay, I'm not trying to argue. I was not trying to argue before.

[pokester]

To the OP 

Since you wanted to be pointed to the exact verbiage that AMD states:

GD-26
AMD’s product warranty does not cover damages caused by overclocking, even when overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software . GD-26

GD-106
Overclocking AMD processors, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate beyond their stock specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. GD-106

GD-112
Overclocking memory will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even if such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software.  This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer or motherboard vendor.  Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking memory, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to RAM/hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability.  GD-112

You can find this on the AMD website here:

https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/gamingdetails 

Again I think this is crazy on their part.

While up to 3200 is a now a JDEC standard you still have to enable a XMP or DOCP to get there. Or manually make the changes, regardless it is clear above that changing this does void the warranty.

Their actual warranty page doesn't mention any of this and is very ambiguous IMHO. 

However you want them to deny your RMA just mention you used XMP, DOCP or PBO. 

Like I said, don't worry about it. If you have an issue just tell them you used nothing but defaults. Problem solved. 

[fyrel]

What's crazy is AMD & Intel both use advertising benchmarks with XMP enabled memory profile that invalidate their warranties.

They should be reported to advertising watchdogs until they remove this clause from the warranties. 

[pokester]

I agree 100 %.  Some of of the  SI's would not honor warranties. One of them was advertising on their website and even the box the higher memory speed but would deny warranty if you used it. Gamer's Nexus and I believe LTT about a year ago told them if this practice didn't stop they would stop advertising for them. It worked and the company no longer persecute their customers that buy their gaming rigs and use them at advertised speed.

We have all seen the videos of Lisa herself showing Ryzen's performance on 3600 ram the highest you can go on infinity fabric at 1 to 1. Yet if you do that, exactly what AMD themselves demonstrate, advertise, in reality by proxy recommended, then you void your warranty. That is nuts. Where I really have more of an issue now as that with Ryzen 3xxx it even officially supports up to 3200, over that AMD makes no claim of support on paper anyway on the product page. But to use it you have to enable XMP. So to me at least at that one XMP speed I think you could have a legal case to say no using XMP can't void my warranty. But AMD's verbiage of what voids warranty contradicts that logic. So bets thing IMHO is if you need to warranty a CPU never admit to using anything but bios defaults, not  XMP, DOCP , PBO, or manual changes to any settings at all. As any of that is cause for them to deny warranty.

Intel does the exact same thing. Although you can pay for an additional plan from them that will cover the processor if you do any of this. Again with them though just don't ever tell them you ran anything but defaults. 

[peterq94]

Thank you very much for answer. Like I earlier wrote - I got a message from ASUS Support that if I turn on XMP profile I will lost my warranty. I think that I can lie if I will do RMA to AMD (processor warranty). Maybe you are right and they can not to check this but Asus can search BIOS history. If it is possible I can be in trouble if I would like to do RMA for motherboard.

I think that official specification for AMD - 3200 Mhz is not for memory with XMP profile because these are memory for overclocking. I think that XMP is overclocking because we increase voltage on the CPU memory controller to 1.35V. Overclocking is not only increase performance it is also higher voltage than stock settings.

I think that only 3200 Mhz what is officialy supported without void warranty are memory with JEDEC specification like Kingston KVR32B22S8/8

This is link for memory specifications: https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR32N22S8_8.pdf 
An this is QVL from ASUS motherboard for 3-rd Ryzen processor: TUF GAMING A520M-PLUS Memory | Motherboards | ASUS Global 

If you will typing "KVR32B22S8/8" in search table you can find these memory and we can see that this memory will run 3200 Mhz out of the box without XMP and with stock voltage 1.2V.

I think that this is reason why we should not tell them about XMP but like I said - Asus can veryfing in BIOS maybe they have something like "history settings". We users can't find this but Asus people maybe will do this.

[mstfbsrn980]

XMP does not increase the voltage of the RAM controller. According to RAMs of 1.2v and 1.35v, the BIOS applies this voltage to the processor without increasing and if this voltage is not applied, the system will not work. A processor does not malfunction due to the XMP profile. Even if it will fail with the XMP profile, it will not work properly anyway. Also, if a processor is down, you probably won't be able to take advantage of RMA. Processors do not malfunction externally from misuse. It can withstand up to 200 degrees. And it has to work well below this temperature.

[pokester]

You have to watch what the boards say they support many list support on the boards up to 3000 and after it is consider an overclock. Then you have CPU and APU and both of those may not have the same specifications. So lots of variable. Anyway as later stated when someone suggest changing it manually as not to use XMP well according to AMD any manual change voids warranty too. Not my rules, I think they are nuts too. 

[mstfbsrn980]

Choosing an XMP profile can change other important settings of BIOSs. This is why I recommend changing it manually. Obviously, even making an OC to a processor does not leave anyone out of warranty according to motherboard model.

Damage to audio, ethernet and similar buses or chips of a system you make OC is covered by the manufacturer's warranty. However, if the VRM of an OC system is damaged, this system will not be covered by the warranty even if OC is not performed. If you manage to break a processor it is out of warranty. 

So it matters which part of your motherboard or graphics card is damaged. For example, I do not think that your graphics card will put the video memory defects under warranty, whether it is OC or not. In this context, XMP is definitely not covered by OC. If the manufacturer puts it in OC class, it is to protect itself.

The sensors and control mechanisms of the new systems are very good. Computer BIOSs already protect systems from potential damage. A PSU manufacturer has to use the mechanism that will prevent this excess power and throw the heat out, even if you apply power beyond its capacity. And it has to specify the matters that are not covered by the warranty in accordance with this issue. Otherwise, the producer company cannot defend itself against those who sue it.

The RAM manufacturer determines the XMP profile. Choosing XMP can only damage RAM. There is no possibility of damaging another part....

[pokester]

I'm not having this debate with you. I am not an expert of what they will and won't cover. It is pointless to have any conversation with you as you believe whatever you want so go ahead and keep doing that. The OP has already said what the motherboard maker has said and I have already provided what AMD says. Believe whatever you want and leave me out of it. I am here to help the OP not have pointless debates with you. 

[mstfbsrn980]

I am not saying the information you shared is wrong, and I am not saying what I wrote is correct. Frankly, I thought I was writing something different. I wrote the answer to you, so that my suggestion would not be misunderstood. It's not because you're spelling it wrong. Goodbye...

[peterq94]

"The RAM manufacturer determines the XMP profile. Choosing XMP can only damage RAM. There is no possibility of damaging another part...."

I readed ROG forum and some users have problem with X570 motherboards after enable XMP profile. Their system was not stable and their damaged SSD drive so XMP can damage other components.

Manufacturer like ASUS in QVL list wrote that parameters above JEDEC standard are not guaranteed - "・The stability and compatibility of XMP memory kits that operate beyond the JEDEC standard is not guaranteed because it can be affected by the capabilities of the CPU’s integrated memory controller, installed devices, and the operating frequency of associated bus domains.". So if memory XMP kits are on QVL list is not guaranteed that this will be work stable and with no issues.

[mstfbsrn980]

Yes. I tried to say exactly that you wrote. So the system will not be damaged. But stabilization will decrease. For this reason, XMP profiles were created. However, this profile will not be guaranteed to work. However, you can manually arrange it according to your processor and chipset pair and stabilize it with BIOSs RAM timing settings. Never change the operating voltage of your RAMs. High voltage may cause damage...

[mstfbsrn980]

If OP asks about what keeps producers (manufacturers) from leaving legal deficits to protect themselves, you know best. But this is not true in my opinion. pokester‌
In short, XMP is an option offered by the RAM manufacturer and does not exclude RAMs from RMA. It won't leave the processor anyway...

[peterq94]

Maybe you can think like this but Asus people from Support section wrote me that if I will turn XMP profile this can be reason to void warranty. Overclocking is also option offered from manufacturer but they everything wrote that this void warranty so if you will do this is a risk that maybe in BIOS some setting are saved (like I said "history") for manufacturer so if you turn back stock setting somewhere can be history of your changes. I think that this can be included in BIOS of course hidden for users. This can be escape from warranty for manufacturer. If I will be manufacturer I will do this and make earn $.

[mstfbsrn980]

You don't need an XMP profile. Apply the maximum speed offered by the RAM manufacturer with the BIOS advanced settings without XMP selection.

[joaoferreira]

I have posted also an issue with my ram, i've update my msi x470 gaming pro bios, and after that , my gskill flare x 3200 cl14, don't pass 2400mhz,i have 4 sticks 32G, try only with 1 or 2 or 4, and  xmp profile don't work, im going crazy with this. can anyone try to help me. thanks

[pokester]

It is unlikely that all 4 sticks of ram are bad but not impossible. Is that ram definitely on the QVL for that motherboard? If not the motherboard may not be assigning the correct timings. Being flarex I would assume it is but make sure. I think they I would ask GSkill support, maybe they have had complaints with that board or can offer some suggestions. If they can't help then talk to MSI support and ask the same. Unfortunately these issues can be the memory, motherboard and less often the CPU. 

[joaoferreira]

This ram is this one, im also now having windows issues, could the windows make this happen also? I have this mobo and ram and cpu for 2 years, with no issues, now i don't feel the system stable enough, do you think a format could help?

[pokester]

Okay so that is good information that your hardware worked well for 2 years. So what changed is the question?

Windows corruption is a real thing. Also any number of things to new hardware, updated drivers, Windows updates or basically any change can affect things. For instance did you install a new GPU or even a new Mouse and driver furring this time frame when things changed? You did mention an obvious red flag that now knowing the system was fine for 2 years I think is the obvious place to start. I would regress that bios a version if possible and see if that helps. Before doing this I would speak to the motherboard makers support department about the issue arising after the bios update for their input and if they agree on regressing bios. If that ends up not helping, I think that reloading Windows while time consuming is a logical and cheap place to start. You could also install Windows to another drive if you have on without disturbing your current installation to test if that helps. If that does not help it likely is not software related. A failing power supply can cause issues. So can a motherboard. I still think it is not likely all your ram went bad and since you have appropriately already tested that, and we now know it worked for 2 years rule that out.