PC Processors

[Shaterhand]

Hello, I've recently finished up my gaming PC and I have a problem with 5800X, its pretty hot. I've done some research on the internet and apparently out of all cpu's from the new series, this one is specificly 15-20 C hotter than the others, sadly. Currently I'm playing WoW, with max settings and the CPU temp is around 70 in world and 65 ish during raids, and that for World of Warcraft which is not the most demanding game out there, I didn't had time to test it in other games. Considering my case is Fractal R6 Define edition, I've replaced the stock fans with 3 noctuas and the CPU cooler is also noctua, NH-U12A, basicaly my cooling is pretty high-end, hitting that these kind of temp is pretty bad In my opinion. In cinebench test, with out of the stock settings and with fans running at 100%, the temps I get are around 84-85 C, which is insanely hot in my opinion, considering that 5900X is a better CPU, I've read on the interent that is hitting in cinebench around 69 C......

So, to solve this, because I don't like having my fans running at 100% all the time, is too noisy, I want to lower the CPU temps by other means, I've tried to downclock my CPU basically and I've got the results I wanted in terms of temp, by using AMD Ryzen Master and by BIOS, but there is one problem. Doesn't matter if I use Ryzen Master or BIOS to reduce the frequency and voltage for my cpu, if I change the frequency by any value, the frequency then remains stuck at that value even in idle. Running at 4,5GHz in idle, seems pointless to me and I don't even know if that a good thing to have your CPU running constantly at that maximum speed you set it. I've watched Jaytwocents video about undervolting and underclocking and the only thing he mentioned about this, is that you should have your power plans in windows to balance, but mine already are and the frequency doesn't want to drop to anything lower than I set it. 

So is there a way to fix it? Can I only set the maximum CPU frequency that it can reach, for example I want to set it to reach max 4,5GHz (but not remain stuck at it, even in idle) so I can lower the voltage and thus getting lower temps?

[spot_ys]

Hi, I'm not absolutely sure if this will work, however, according to AMD, with the latest Chipset drivers, the power management is now handled by Windows 10 alone (on the last to versions, 2009 and 20H2), meaning, power plans will no longer show the custom AMD ones.

Try setting your powerplan advanced settings:

Settings > System > Power & Sleep > Additonal power settings > Change plan settings (on current active power plan) > Change advanced power settings > Processor Power management.

There you can set the Minimum and Maximum processor state for the CPU, I believe that will only work if otherwise in BIOS and/or Ryzen Master is set all to defaults, no OC or undervolts.

Let us know if that helped anything at all :)

Unfortunately not able to verify this for you, but I have a 5600X that I leave at all stock settings, inclusive the Power Management. Changed my settings to check and worked for me or at least could see the difference on min/max clock and temps.

[Shaterhand]

Here is a screenshot on how it looks once I downclock it.


Basically, as you can see I've set from ryzen master 4,5ghz with 1,375V, which is stable, thats not the problem. But as you can see from 4 different softwares, they all show that the freq, is stuck at 4,5ghz, not lower or higher, in idle.... Also the power plans remain the same as with default settings, 5% minimum and 100% for max. Dunno why core temp is showing 3,5ghz, that clearly has to be wrong, but what it is interesting is that the ryzen master shows different values from the others. I dunno if this is a visual bug for other software's, because I used ryzen master to downclock it and could be the case that only ryzen master shows accurate freq after you do that, but I don't think thats the case, because even if I downclock it directly from bios, not from ryzen master, the results are the same, everything is shows that the freq is stuck at 4,5ghz....

But even if ryzen master is the only one accurate, I've never seen a CPU running at such a low frequency, is that normal?? I legit don't know because so far I've only used task manager to check current frequency.

Any other ideas? anyone else had this problem?

EDIT: That AMD Ryzen Balance power thingy that you have selected in the power plans, doesn't show up to me. I don't have it.

[Soul--Reaver]

You have not downclocked at all.

4.85 ghz is single core max clock speed
But under all core load around 4.53 ghz is normal. Lower if power or temp or something else restricts it further

So you're 4.5 ghz is not downclocked at all. you've only limited single core performance.
Remember it's 3.8 ghz base clock. Anything above is overclock. Either by design or manual. AMD does this pretty well out-of-the-box where the CPU overclocks itself pretty far without you doing anything.

The clock speed you see is basically the complete cpu package clockspeed. Those normally run at 4.x ghz. Each core has a different clock speed which you see in Ryzen master and HWMonitor.

Dump Core Temp. That one is the furthest away of the actuals speed and frequencies. Don't thrust that.

[Shaterhand]

Not sure what's your definition of downclock but from 4,8ghz I limited to 4,5ghz. Regardless, the issue is that is stuck at that frequency. It doesn't go any lower.

[Soul--Reaver]

A downclock is going below spec. 3.8 ghz is spec base clock.
A downclock can also be defined as going below the normally reached clockspeed under comparable load. Which is different per application because of boostclocks and the way they work

But none of that matters. Fact of the matter is you told the processor to run at 4.5 ghz. Any form of setting that clock speed would result in always running that clock speed. It's not a downclock because its a very normal allcore boost clock for this processor

Thats the issue with overclocking. You could overclock the 5800x so that it does an allcore clock speed to 4.7 ghz. Which is more then the normally reached ~4.53 ghz. But your single core performance would drop since it cannot reach the 4.85 ghz it would be able to do on single core.

AMD has a feature where it could apply different overclocking methods based on the situation but for that you would need to do some investigating yourself.

My advise. Don't do overclocking using Ryzen Master. But rather through the BIOS directly. You should be able to set the max boost clock using a multiplier. That should give you your desired result as long as the multiplier is lower then 45. Try 42 for starters. But you will hurt single core performance.

[mrsense]

According to AMD, unlike all previou cpus (intel or AMD) 5000 series cpus were design to reach the Tj Max (90~95C), that it's perfectly safe at those temperatures.

But if you feel uncomfortable with that I suggest you try undervolting in lieu of underclocking.  You can start with the negative off-set of 0.100v (-0.100v) to lower the temperature. 

[Shaterhand]

For most games, the temperature is around 70 C, but when I tried to play Path of Exile, the temp jumped to even 90 C in some areas and the avg was around 80 C, which I dont think its a good think.

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@mrsense wrote:

According to AMD, unlike all previou cpus (intel or AMD) 5000 series cpus were design to reach the Tj Max (90~95C), that it's perfectly safe at those temperatures.

But if you feel uncomfortable with that I suggest you try undervolting in lieu of underclocking.  You can start with the negative off-set of 0.100v (-0.100v) to lower the temperature. 

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I dont know how to undervolt/underclock this thing properly, like I said, when I tried to undervol and underclock using the ryzen master app, it worked but the freq. was stuck at whatever I set it to, if I did 4,5ghz with 1,2V, the freq of the processor was never dropping from 4,5ghz, same if I did it by bios.

There is 1 thing I haven't tried yet, if only change the volt values in the bios, if I put a negative offset of like -0,100 / -0,200, then will the clock speed adjust acordingly to its voltage? Like, if with the negative off-set the maximum voltage than can be reached is around 1,2V then does the proccesor/bios automaticly calucates and adujst the maximum freq. and power consumption that it can reach according to the voltage?

[mrsense]

@Shaterhand 

I've noticed negative voltage offset doesn't really bring down the maximum clock speed boost, but it does sacrifies performance (lower Cincebench scores).

The Curve Optimizer is another way to optimize the temperature and performance.  With CO, you can tune Vcore individually at minimum impact to the performance.

You first need to find which cores Ryzen Master sees as the best (green highlighted). There are usually two cores.  You can start with Negative 10 for the two cores and Negative 20 for the rest.

I noticed on one of your post you are getting 70C average during games.  I think that's perfectly fine.  Mine goes up to 80C when playing COD Cold War.

[xlox]

@mrsense 

i agree with you that's intended and normal with poor cooling system like cheap air cooling with bad case airflow for example

[Shaterhand]

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@xlox wrote:

@mrsense 

i agree with you that's intended and normal with poor cooling system like cheap air cooling with bad case airflow for example

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Did you read the specs I have? All my vents are Noctuas, I replaced the air case vents with noctuas and the CPU cooler its NH-U12A, literarily the best on the market, there is nothing cheap on my cooling.
In fact, having my vents running at 100% or at 30-50%, makes little to no difference, only 1-2 C degrees difference. The AVG temp is around 70 C in games.

[JoltCola]

It isn't just cheap cooling. I have a NH-D15, the best air cooler money can buy, and pretty good case airflow and my 5950X easily hits 90C under full load with PBO set to motherboard. That's what PBO does, it unleashes all the power settings so the chip drinks power until it hits the max temp limit, which is 90C by default. You can drop the temp limit in PBO also if 90C makes you nervous.

[Shaterhand]

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@JoltCola wrote:

It isn't just cheap cooling. I have a NH-D15, the best air cooler money can buy, and pretty good case airflow and my 5950X easily hits 90C under full load with PBO set to motherboard. That's what PBO does, it unleashes all the power settings so the chip drinks power until it hits the max temp limit, which is 90C by default. You can drop the temp limit in PBO also if 90C makes you nervous.

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Can you explain a bit more about PBO? I've heard about it, but I don't really know what PBO is and how should I set it up according to what you said.

[JoltCola]

Yes, PBO lets you unlock the power usage on your chip. By default for example my 5950X is 142W PPT, 95A TDC, 140A EDC. In PBO you can manually set those numbers or set it to "motherboard", which essentially sets them to extremely high values set by your motherboard manufacturer, which knows the max your VRMs can actually handle.

If you look in Ryzen Master while running a benchmark you can see those values in the dials at the top. Either one of them will be at 100% or you'll hit 90C, and that's what's capping your performance.

So basically, set PBO to motherboard and you'll see much faster scores but generate a ton more heat until you either hit 90C (the default cap, which can also be changed in PBO) or your chip does the best it can, if you have very high-end water cooling.

[Shaterhand]

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@JoltCola wrote:

Yes, PBO lets you unlock the power usage on your chip. By default for example my 5950X is 142W PPT, 95A TDC, 140A EDC. In PBO you can manually set those numbers or set it to "motherboard", which essentially sets them to extremely high values set by your motherboard manufacturer, which knows the max your VRMs can actually handle.

If you look in Ryzen Master while running a benchmark you can see those values in the dials at the top. Either one of them will be at 100% or you'll hit 90C, and that's what's capping your performance.

So basically, set PBO to motherboard and you'll see much faster scores but generate a ton more heat until you either hit 90C (the default cap, which can also be changed in PBO) or your chip does the best it can, if you have very high-end water cooling.

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Well my goal is to get lower temps, even if I sacrifice a little bit of performance, so suppose setting it to motherboard value is not what I want. If I put the PBO to disabled, then will I get lower temps? or what exactly do I need to change to it.

[JoltCola]

If you want lower temps overall, you can undervolt (set vCore offset to -0.1v, for example) or use curve optimizer to more adaptively undervolt on a per-core basis. You can also turn on ECO mode, which sets the power cap to 65w, or you can do the same thing in PBO by reducing the 4 limits.

If you're concerned about temps getting too high under load, you can reduce the temp cap in PBO from 90C to say, 80C. Then it just won't boost as high or use as much voltage under load. But that won't reduce overall temps at idle or light load.

Generally speaking, you don't need to give up a lot of performance to really dramatically reduce power draw and improve temperatures. AMD drives these chips very aggressively to be competitive in the market.

[mrsense]

"Well my goal is to get lower temps, even if I sacrifice a little bit of performance, so suppose setting it to motherboard value is not what I want. If I put the PBO to disabled, then will I get lower temps? or what exactly do I need to change to it."

I have Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master.  Even if I turn PBO off, my 5800X still behaves as if PBO is on.  I don't know if this is my motherboard/bios related issue or 5800X issue.  When I tried it with a 5950X, I definately noticed performance and temperature differences between PBO on and off.

[JoltCola]

You can check if PBO is on in Ryzen Master, it will show  your PPT/TDC/EDC caps in the dials at the top of the window.

[johcamp21]

Have you tried leaving the cpu settings on stock in bios and limiting the processors maximum state in windows power settings to say 90 or 95%? I think this is what the first reply to this thread was trying to get you to do.

Go to system - power - change plan settings - advanced power options - maximum processor state set to 90% then adjust from there until you get the temps you want.

Bottom line is if you want the processor to keep its factory variable state frequency profile then you cant mess with the clocks. You have  to change other things. Less power means less heat.

I haven't tested this myself but in theory less power should lower the top end clock speeds while still maintaining the lower clock speeds.

[Shaterhand]

I've just tried it and if I set the max cpu power to anything less than 100%, even 99%, the cpu max  clock speed becomes 3,72ghz, from 4,8ghz. Thats 1100 points in cinebench for just 1%, probably because that % is based on the base clock speed not with the overclocks settings that are stock anyway from AMD. The temp does drop, in cinebench I hit around 60 C with this, but even so for 3,7ghz and around not even 1V, mostly 0,92V it was, 60C its a lot. Thats not what I was looking for anyway, with that clock speed, this is worse than even older CPUs, I was hoping it would take the overclock settings into account and be able to limit it to around 4,5ghz with the necessary voltage.

I don't think there is a fix for this, 5800 is the worst product out of all, they screwed really badly on this. With out of the stock settings for all 5000 CPUs, 5800 has +20-25C above everything else. This is simply outrageous, I really whish I wouldn't have taken someone advice to buy this CPU as soon as I was available in stock in my country, out of fear cuz they will go out of stock, Cuz I finished my new PC way before i could return it, otherwise I would have return it from day 1.

I don't advise anyone to buy the 5800x, regardless of what cooling you have. At this point, I will probably try to sell it second-hand, cheaper, and buy the 5600x.

[xlox]

i read you first post and i think you mix a lot of readings you made without being able to compare effectively ... being on air i don't think you have any problem at all, wondering what did make you think that (too much video on youtube misleading you maybe , maybe it's your first ryzen, you got to learn to know the baby) ... 8 core + auto oc = heat .. nothing new.. sure 6 core is potentially less warm until you tweak it ... and telling 5900x is cooler , i don't think so ... i have 5950x ... all these cpu work with an associated tdp and auto oc is not limited with temps until 90 or 95° , 80-85 on air is average pretty good

[HardcoreUnderclocking]

Mine is set to a max value of 10 following this guide and seems to be fine (down to 70-80 under load from 80-90), I also set custom fan speed curves for the cpu and case exhaust fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfkrp25dpQ0&

[JDA80]

I followed that vid and while it was successful in Cinebench and will pass a 5-10 min loop on all core I get random reboots with WHEA uncorrectable errors when light browsing, gaming etc.

Gotta admit I'm really struggling with my 5800x and curve optimizer on my MSI MPG B550 Gaming Carbon. Things can seem perfectly stable on heavy all core load and then I get the random reboots on lighter loads.

[gmontenegro3]

Don't sell it, just set it to eco mode and it will run nice and cool.

[CalinB]

I have this issue on a 5950x. Talked with AMD about this, they told me it’s either a defective cpu, or mobo. I have a Crosshair hero wi fi. I talked to ASUS about it, they told me it’s a defective mobo. So either way, if you have a different mobo at hand, try the cpu on that. It’s not software related, it’s hardware.

[andma_fr]

Hello,

Just built my new PC and ran into same issues. Here're some thoughts.

With the default settings, I've got the following:

- I've got 45°C in average with some spikes at 60°C. Measures taken with Open Hardware Monitor which allows logging.

- Under Cinebench R23 MC, I've reached 90,25°C ! And got the score of 14771.

Note that Open Hardware Monitor gives me two values for CPU: CPU package and CCD, don't know which one is the most accurate (but CCD is a bit higher reaching 91°C).

Then I've tried ECO mode (set in Ryzen Master), and got the following:

- In average 41°C and some spikes at 55°C.

- Under Cinebench, got an average of 75°C with a score of 14114.

All of that knowing that I have a stock Be Quiet 500DX case with 3 Fans and a Be Quiet Shadow Rock Slim as the CPU Fan. Not the best one, not the worse one.

Then I don't think we're going to solve this problem as it seems to be the way this CPU works, period. But I 've have two options:

- Run in ECO mode. According to Open Hardware Monitor, assuming values are correctly reported, and according to Cinebench results, the difference in performances is not that big. And certainly the easiest way to decrease CPU temp.

- Leave the default mode and the CPU reach high temperatures. I mean, no matter the cooling solution, here on this thread the high end air cooling, in other discussions, water cooling, we all face the same issue. So either by design this CPU runs HOT and there is no issue, or This is really a problem and we should all get back tp AMD.

Finally my decision would depend on this: I could leave the default mode, and we'll see if the CPU survives. But I don't want to damage other components. Is that a possibility ?

My two cents, of course.

[xlox]

... that doesn't  change what i said ... not because you have the best cooling system in the world that you can't have a problem with it , see ?

[kensei]

Hello, 

Wanted to ask how can i get the Ryzen power plan on Windows 10, i don't find it anywhere, in my case i have a problem with idle temp it's around 50° which is too high.

Thanks.

[andma_fr]

Well I have a French system but will try. I guess it's there:

- In search box, type power management

- Then on the right side you can choose to change settings of the current mode

- Then you can click on advanced settings

- In the new list you should have something related to CPU

- Finally you can set something than 100% in the max state

Hope it helps

[Kitiarian]

Thanks for sharing that - dropping windows max power setting to 99% instead of 100 dropped my CPU temp 30 degrees. Seems like windows might be contributing to the heat problem, when set to 100% (windows default) it had the CPU running at max speed and voltage when idle 

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@andma_fr wrote:

Well I have a French system but will try. I guess it's there:

- In search box, type power management

- Then on the right side you can choose to change settings of the current mode

- Then you can click on advanced settings

- In the new list you should have something related to CPU

- Finally you can set something than 100% in the max state

Hope it helps

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[JoergBaermann]

I use the Windows Power Saving plan on top of what I posted for max temperatures, with a few modifications, AMD optimized and balanced power plan settings seem not to reduce CPU frequency when idle or at low loads.
Most games I play CPU temps go from 30-45C, there are a few exception with games that make use of cut scenes where CPU load is pushed.

[Kitiarian]

Glad that worked out for you! By changing 100% to 99% my temps stabilized around 33 when idle and 40 (ish) under med load - down from 69-74 idle. Haven't tried a higher load yet 

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@JoergBaermann wrote:

I use the Windows Power Saving plan on top of what I posted for max temperatures, with a few modifications, AMD optimized and balanced power plan settings seem not to reduce CPU frequency when idle or at low loads.
Most games I play CPU temps go from 30-45C, there are a few exception with games that make use of cut scenes where CPU load is pushed.

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[flagrant99]

THANK YOU!

Opening a new web page in the browser was driving me nutz. Every time I browse to a new web page My fans go spinup and CPU hits 90c with CPU load at 1%. Not gaming computer is doing nothing. 

Tried ECO Mode 65 watts and did not help. 

Settings -> System -> Power & Sleep -> Additional Power Settings -> High Performance -> Change Plan Settings -> Change Advanced Power Settings. -> Processor Power Management.

Minimum Processor State 

100% -> TO 5%

Keep System Cooling Policy on Active

Maximum Processor State 

100% -> TO 99%

Now it never goes above 40c. 

Ahhhhh  now I can cruise the internet in peace. 

[Modged]

Hello same here from 70 to 40C by putting 99% at max state thanks

[Ahkronn]

Setting max CPU to 99% will keep your cpu cooler for sure, but note that doing so will basically stop boosting, keeping the 5800x at it's default clock.

I made a couple of "buttons" (shortcut links) and pinned them on my Start menu to change between two sets of power configs. One with no boost, the other with boost.

[JoergBaermann]

Recently invested in a water cooler which came with offset mounting brackets for AM4, that did get max temps down even further.

[edsager]

Which water cooler?

[edsager]

I meant: which water coolers are people successfully using?

[JoergBaermann]

ARCTIC  Liquid Freezer II 360 works well, the new Alphacool Eisbaer Pro Aurora should be even better.
Although I'm on 5900X now which has lower temps than 5800X.

[JoergBaermann]

Yup, should only set min to 99% and leave max at 100%.