PC Processors

walvest · ‎08-21-2024

I’ve discovered that the essential licensing software for music production, iLok License Manager, does not run on the 9900X. Additionally, the DAW program Cakewalk, while it installs on the 9900X, does not function properly when executed. UA Connect, which is necessary to use UAD plugins, also fails to run. Since many programs, virtual instruments, and plugins rely on iLok License Manager, it is currently impossible to produce music on the 9900X.

I’ve seen other users on Reddit experiencing the same issues with the 9900X and 9950X. It’s surprising to see such problems with well-established programs like iLok and Cakewalk, which have been consistently updated and have run smoothly on any computer until now. I hope AMD can provide a solution to this issue soon.

AP2

I'm trying to, but AMD has been ignoring me and iLok is just pretending they have nothing to do with it.

Lukas108

"Thank you for your feedback. I completely understand.

Good news is AMD is in contact with us now on this Zen 5 only issue so progress is actively being made. Our hope is to have the issue resolved soon then later.

We will keep you posted."

Info from PACE.

giacomopasquali

I received a response from AMD Customer Care. I had reached out to them about 7 days ago.

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Dear Giacomo,

Thank you for reaching out to us.

We acknowledge the issue you've been experiencing with iLOK and Ryzen 9000 series processors and we're currently looking into it. If we require any further details from you, we'll reach out through another email.

We'll keep you updated on any developments regarding this matter through this service request.

We appreciate your patience and understanding during this time.

Best Regards,
Matt

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Looks they're confirming they're aware of this

AP2

I received an identical response today. Not good enough imo. No timetable, no specifying what steps they are making to solve it, and all of these companies should issue an official warning to not buy the 9000 series or not use iLok plugins until this is resolved. 99% of music producers and composers use iLok plugins and allowing them to purchase and build new PCs without disclosing this info is extremely shady.

Musicmad

I was just about to buy a 9900x audio workstation and found this thread! Will park that for moment!

Someone mooted above that the 9000 series has avx512.

Has anyone tried disabling avx512 in the bios to see if that helps for now?

Lukas108

Good idea. My 9950X is out of the box. So, maybe anyone else here?

misterj

Musicmad, I mooted that above and am checking how to do what you suggested. Thanks, John.

desmond_dales

well i think zen4 - 7xxx processors has axv512 too.

Chilli_Dock

Very Sure. 7950x does have AVX512 but hasn't brought us any Plugin lotteries so far?

Lukas108

Zen 4 has AVX512 but executed as 2x 256bit

Chilli_Dock

Thanks for sharing Lukas, you really dive deep.

desmond_dales

Well, having the same issues on my ryzen 7 9700x (**bleep**, i should really go with my first idea - ryzen 9 7900) and...looking at ilok...come on guys. Ilok license manager (or pace license support?? **bleep**, installer has different name than the app...) has got a pretty old spaghetti code. It's installed in x86 program files folder so it means it's 32bit. Ok...still should work but, look at the installer itself...it looks the same as 15 or 20 years ago. Because it is basically the same. And this is the problem. There is no surprise that this ancient spaghetti code has a problem to address instructions on new processors. I think that ilok has fired all programmers long ago...but hopefuly they hired some new and skilled ones, who are working on the 21st century license manager for us.

reutech

Is there a bios update for your mainboard that include the latest AGESA update? V 1.2.0.2 does some stuff to decrease latency between CCXs. Since this is the 12 core part I'm hoping that might help.

I'm very excited.

desmond_dales

and what about my 8core cpu (ryzen7 9700x) with the same ilok problem...

martel80

I bought all my parts to build a new PC based on the 9700x and now I find this....

So it's been a month in the making and no one released a fix to those issues yet ?

That's ridiculous.

it will be my first AMD build in over 2 decades and I already feel this will be my last EVER.

What a complete mess on all front.

First, I was trying to convince myself that the 9700x would be just so much more efficient given the AVX 512 infrastructure support compared to the 7700x but then I saw the real world benchmark from Scan Audio here:
https://www.scanproaudio.info/2024/09/12/5075/

Then, I told myself, well , at least the temperatures will be lower so I will be able to push it a bit more with the 105W TDP mode.

But now that I'm about to receive all my parts, I am made aware that there's a bug with the safety software (ILOK) that protect all my plugin software from piracy and I wont be able to use them including my Universal Audio software......

So I basically bought a SFF computer for my upcoming tour/trip and will be away from home for 6 months with a computer that will be useless.

WHAT A MISSED OPPORTUNITY AMD !!!

OregonVideoPhotography

I think you are blaming the wrong company. Hopefully now that all parties are actively working on this work, it will not take more than a week or two to fix.

martel80

That would be weird to blame ilok if their system is working on other systems. It would also be weird to blame Universal Audio if their software also work on other systems.

Not to point out that the issue was raised over a month ago.

OregonVideoPhotography

Have you read all of the above posts, it's Pace claiming that there is a "bug" in the 9000 series firmware. Unless there is an agreement between Pace and AMD is it ok to reply on GPU firmware, it been an industry standard to code to the operating system is my understanding.

martel80

Is it Legal to rely on part of a CPU (Corrected) Firmware ?

I mean, how do you think software work in relation to a CPU ?

Those CPU instructions were thrown out to meet a release date and even the gaming community experienced massive disappointment in performance when released as the 9000 series would match the 7000 series performance. They did an update a month later with a 105 cTDP that brought an increase of about 15% in performance compared to the 7000 series.

That's a butch job. Lets call a spade a spade.

If there's no bug in the firmware of this whole 9000 series, please explain why over 50 plugin manufacturers now have their plugin obsolete because they all crash when opening? This is not a ilok / Pace exclusive issue. Those CPU are close to useless to music production in their current state.

No to point out that it's not happening in ANY other generation OR brand of CPU....

AP2

I'm not sure who is to blame but you can also argue the reverse - All non-iLok plugins and authorization managers seem to be working fine with the new Zen 5 CPUs, so clearly it's an iLok issue. Personally, I don't care who is to blame as long as they fix the issue. What's bothering me is that all companies involved seem to be either blaming the other side or ignoring it altogether and sitting on their hands.

martel80

Universal Audio Native plugins (UA Connect) are not PACE or Ilok driven and they also don't work.

Same for Soundtoys.

misterj

martel80, please post the errors they are getting including Event Viewer. John.

martel80

That's going to be in a support ticket once answered bud'.

misterj

martel80, this is a User forum. We do not have access to support requests. John.

martel80

Which is the reason for my answer. That issue was already submitted to AMD. I am still waiting for their answer. It's nothing personal.

misterj

martel80, it is really difficult to offer an opinion with no information. John.

martel80

Totally understandable. May I suggest you have a look at the 135 replies preceding this message and form an opinion....

misterj

martel80, I have been here since the beginning and have seen only two errors explicitly identified, 2001 and 1067. These are from the failing software and I do not know what they mean. I need to see Event Log errors. John.

AP2

I don't use UA so I don't know what's the deal with them, but Soundtoys is very much iLok driven.

martel80

No it's not anymore unless you force yourself into it.

https://support.soundtoys.com/article/37-who-needs-an-ilok-account

On a second but important note, shout out to Matt at AMD for his answer:

''Thank you for reaching out to us.

We acknowledge the issue you've been experiencing with iLOK and Ryzen 9000 series processors and we're currently looking into it. If we require any further details from you, we'll reach out through another email.

We'll keep you updated on any developments regarding this matter through this service request.

We appreciate your patience and understanding during this time.

Best Regards,
Matt''

That's what I call being accountable. A moral virtue that is lost so often these days.

Hats off to him.

I cant believe I just said that. In what sort of world are we living in....

Lukas108

"https://support.soundtoys.com/article/37-who-needs-an-ilok-account"

I asked Sound Toys if we can avoid iLok. They said NO. You don't have to create iLok account, but the app/system still must be used for activation.

martel80

True but you can still not use ilok as a software and the plugins still wont work.

The point is, the culprit of it all is not ilok but the CPU instructions.

Chilli_Dock

I guess if it could be blamed on CCDs deployment? Maybe Ryzen 9000s CPUs are struggling with CCD's priority when come across certain plugins or lincense system but hands off instead...

martel80

Well, I definitely hope this is not a hardware limitation by the CCD and that it can be reframed on the software side of things by a firmware update by reframing the core scheduler if that's where the issue come from.

Especially because the Series 9000 cpu were supposed to be optimized for AVX 512 and it seems that many plugin that struggle as we speak are based on this Instruction set architecture. ( I might be wrong but that's my understanding as we speak so take it with a grain of salt)

This whole idea makes it even more awkward because it was kind of a selling point when you take it at face value.

misterj

martel80, I infer from your comments that you think the processor has scheduling responsibility. All task scheduling to individual threads is performed by Windows. Some changes to W11 (and maybe W10) to better schedule task on the later Ryzen processors is in Windows. John.

martel80

You are correct that Windows is responsible for task scheduling, but the CPU (via its firmware and internal resources) also plays a role, particularly for advanced features like AVX-512, AVX-2, SSE, and managing the relationship between CCDs. Both the OS and CPU must work together to ensure that tasks, especially those involving intensive Instruction set architecture workloads, are handled efficiently.

If one is broken or badly coded, issues arise.

Now Windows 11 work perfectly fine on other Series of CPU's. So we end up in the same bottleneck again and again. The Series 9000 framework....

AP2

From the support article you linked: "We do still include the iLok software in the Soundtoys installer, since Activation Codes still use the iLok software for licensing."

Meaning, whether or not you have an iLok account, Soundtoys is still activated by iLok.

Also, that email you pasted is not accountability. It's a canned email that they copy and paste to anyone who submits a support inquiry. "We're currently looking into it" tells me nothing about a timetable for when they expect to resolve it.

Accountability would be either committing to resolve the issue within a reasonable timeframe, or sending an email to all users of iLok-activated plugins warning them to not buy or build PCs with Zen 5 CPUs until this issue is resolved.

So far all we've been getting is copout responses and zero accountability from all parties involved.

martel80

So if like me, you install iLok , activate your soundtoys license and remove iLok, soundtoys plugins still crash. So iLok being the culprite is therefor not relevant to this conversation.

Now, accountability is not setting unrealistic expectation and time-frame towards their users but at least recognizing that you are responsible for an issue which they did acknowledge and said they are working on it.

That's what Matt did with his canned message. That's actually all he can personally do as he's a Tech Support with no hands on capacity to change the Firmware to address the issue. He most likely opened a JIRA for the devs to work on it. Now with all the trash they must have been working on since the release of the Series 9000 release, especially the very vocal Gaming community, I believe we will be thrown all the way down the order of priority because we are a very niche market with not much impact on their sales.

I agree that iLok should have sent a mass email to make their users aware of the situation and I also find that behaviour VERY unprofessional but just the system of 25$ license transfer should be enough for anyone to understand which sort of scam that company really is. Sadly, many manufacturer still rely on them to counter piracy which actually seems to do the complete opposite result and every product that is linked to that system just become a fun challenge for crackers to break. The irony.

I also find AMD Series 9000 released butched and that situation right here is just the perfect example of what not to do when your competitors release a broken 13th and 14th generation cpu.

You should definitely not turn around and do the exact same thing they did. As I said in my first message, what a missed opportunity !!

OregonVideoPhotography

Can anyone answer why iLoc feels it is necessary to access the GPU firm ware? How many programs do that? Take Adobe or Resolve PRO who don't and run like champs on the 9000 series. iLoc is the only program that is having issues (the music programs are not causing the issue). How many programs are using the CPU firmware to function? I guess this whole issue depends on how you view how iLoc protects programs and accesses the CPU firmware. Is a CPU maker is responsible if firmware is changed and if other firms programs can access that firmware to use fail because of the change if the CPU maker has not give specific authorization for software providers to us the firmware in their programs. I think unless this is fixed pretty quickly the issue becomes denial of service to the music software providers and end users by whoever is causing the issue, and the courts will decide who caused the issue and why it was not fixed in a reasonable time.

martel80

Audio plugin coding typically relies more on the CPU (NOT GPU) architecture and instruction set than on firmware. Plugins are generally developed using languages like C++ and often leverage specific CPU features for performance, such as SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data) instructions. If a plugin is optimized for a certain architecture, like AVX or AVX-512, it may perform better on CPUs that support those features. However, the actual firmware of the CPU (which controls hardware-level operations) is usually not a direct concern for plugin developers. Instead, they focus on ensuring compatibility across different systems and architectures.

PC Processors

9900X CPU Makes Music Production Impossible