PC Graphics

[bfg99]

I’m not expecting much new info here, but figured it’s worth a shot!

My mom has an old Gateway DX4300-03 tower which runs a Radeon HD 4650 card.  Yes, it’s from 2009 so the fact it is still operating is a minor miracle (and partly due to the work I do on it each holiday since I live several states away).

Anyway, it’s been running Windows 10 for a few years without issue, but in the past 3-ish months it’s been experiencing BSODs with a Video TDR Failure in atikmpag.sys.  Typically it happens while running a low-demand graphical game (think Mahjong or cards) or during initial/return-from-sleep bootup.

The problem is that this card isn’t officially supported in Windows 10 - it’s too old.  Only HD 5000s and above are supported.  That said, she was getting along fine with the generic Microsoft driver until recently, when - I suspect - Windows either updated that driver or installed build 1903.  Since I don’t live near her, I am limited in what I can check, but when I was there in February I did not see a stand-alone driver install listed in Windows Update, so am guessing it must have something to do with 1903.

I tried uninstalling the current driver and installing the latest compatible Catalyst driver listed on AMD’s site, in Windows 8.1 x64 compatibility mode (as that was what the driver was built for)...that seemed to work for a while but the BSODs are back.  (I’m wondering if Windows “updated” the driver again?)  She even hired Geek Squad once and they had no new suggestions other than “increasing the time the computer has to find the graphics card during bootup”, which they did (no effect) and which I assume is a registry setting somewhere.

Does anyone have any ideas, or suggestions for other articles/posts to read?  I hate to tell her to buy a new computer or downgrade to 8.1 or lower just because the hardware is too old.  And solutions like registry edits, custom drivers, etc. might work temporarily, but they’re easily overwritten by Windows Update while I’m away, putting us back to square 1 again.

Thanks.

[mstfbsrn980]

https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/ati-radeon-hd-4000-series/ati-radeon-hd-4650 

Here are the drivers for your graphics card. And according to the support page, Windows 10 support is not available. I think it would be much more correct to use Windows 7.

[bfg99]

Yes, those are the drivers which I installed in Windows 10 build 1903 under Windows 8.1 Compatibility Mode.  Until build 1903 came along, everything seemed to work fine...

I may be forced to revert her to the previous build (1809) or uninstall the AMD drivers altogether and force it to the generic Microsoft drivers.

[mstfbsrn980]

Games may not work with Microsoft driver on Win10.

[elstaci]

This is AMD explanation on how to download and install the proper Windows 8.1/10 Drivers for your very old GPU card:https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-legacy 

[bfg99]

Yep, that's what we did.  That particular driver is the one that initially appeared to be causing the BSODs... that's why I installed the latest Windows 8.1 driver available from AMD's website, in Windows 8.1 compatibility mode.  BSODs in both circumstances, under Windows 10 Build 1903.

[elstaci]

what are the exact BSOD errors that are showing. If you can upload any Windows .dmp file from the Windows folder I can try and see what is the reason for your BSOD if you can't see the error.

It is possible that the HD 4xxx might be defective causing the BSOD. Possibly overheating.

If the recommended AMD Driver for Windows 8.1/10 is causing BSOD, it is possible you may have hardware failure.

Can you install a different GPU card and see if it BSODs?  Plus try installing the HD4xxx in another computer to see if it BSODs.

[hardcoregames_]

Given the HD 4650 is now 10+ years old, its possible the card's thermal material has degraded or that capacitors are failing.

I put a GTX 1060 on an old Q6600 box and it works fine. The short card length fits the smaller chassis fine.

[bfg99]

It’s true that I cannot rule out a hardware failure due to its age; unfortunately I cannot think of any good way to test that versus a driver issue.  The timing of it happening as soon as she moved to build 1903 is strange, but it could be coincidence.

Assuming that it IS a driver issue, not hardware, I’ll try to get mom to send a screenshot of the BSOD. I did provide the basic details (Video TDR Failure in atikmpag.sys) above. Stay tuned, and thanks.

[hardcoregames_]

bfg99 wrote:

It’s true that I cannot rule out a hardware failure due to its age; unfortunately I cannot think of any good way to test that versus a driver issue.  The timing of it happening as soon as she moved to build 1903 is strange, but it could be coincidence.

Assuming that it IS a driver issue, not hardware, I’ll try to get mom to send a screenshot of the BSOD. I did provide the basic details (Video TDR Failure in atikmpag.sys) above. Stay tuned, and thanks.

if you want to make the minidumps available I can take a look but a new video card is not expensive

[elstaci]

Here is AMD explanation and tips on fixing that specific BSOD error: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/gpu-800 

Okay, I let the other Users help you with your Mother's problem.

Take care.

[bfg99]

Thank you both for the additional info. I checked the BSOD photo and there’s no additional info beyond what I provided above.

I do not live close, so it may be a while before I can get a copy of the minidumps. I will provide them when I can.

In the meantime, I did try DISM, SFC and uninstalling/reinstalling two different drivers. But that article gives some additional troubleshooting steps.  Thanks.

[hardcoregames_]

Try a clean install of windows in the chance it is corrupted as bad as the president

[elstaci]

Please keep your political comments to yourself. If you need to make political comments then go to CNN.

[bfg99]

Thanks, everyone, for the help.  We ended up pulling the card and determined it had indeed gone bad.  (It was only operating half the time or so.)  Removing it will at least keep her computer stable, albeit slow.

Also, for what it's worth, regarding that last comment - I would ask that everyone put politics aside at least for the moment.  I could easily have replied with a snide "he's not more corrupt than the leading Democratic candidate who was caught on video bragging about forcing Ukraine to drop charges so his son could get away with stealing millions".  Or, about the previous Democratic candidate selling 20% of our nation's uranium stockpile in exchange for a sizable "donation" to her foundation.  But in a national crisis, it's best to put all that aside.  Or, at minimum, don't bring it up when it's irrelevant.

[elstaci]

Thank you.

I suspect we both have similar political views.  I really needed to hold back on replying to that last political comment which didn't settle well with me.

The last thing AMD Forums or any forum needs is for Users to start commenting on Political views especially since many Users are not from the USA and many have some objectionable views concerning the United States or its politics. plus the situation concerning the enmity between liberals and conservatives in general at this time.

But I feel you made a good choice. You can purchase a much superior GPU card that is still supported by AMD for $100.00 or less.