PC Drivers & Software

[sdgrant22]

To reiterate:

I have a computer with an AMD A8-3850 APU processor running mostly up to date Windows 10 x64 in a Gigabyte GA-A75-UD4H mobo with 16 gigs of Vengeance memory. I've checked the memory, there are no failures in the chips.

Starting a few months ago, whenever I attempted to upgrade my AMD video driver to AMD's latest. the system would crash once it tried to boot up Windows again & cycle through automatic repair etc. until arriving at the Windows alternate boot menu, where I discovered it necessary to roll back the machine to the build prior to the video driver update. On asking for help & advice, I was told that I should stop attempting to update with AMD's promoted drivers - a problem with the graphics function of my APU - & henceforth let Windows update automatically update the driver for me. Which I did.

Leading to my now much bigger problem: the Windows upgrade of the video driver has the exact same effect. Only now the only way I can quickly get my computer running again is also to roll it back to the previous video driver...

... which also eliminates the other Windows updates, so now I can't update Windows in its entirety.

As near as I've been able to figure, either the problem is the interaction with the APU or something has gone sour in the system. It seems to me there are only a few ways to solve this:

1) Replace the video card. Except the problem doesn't seem to be the video card.

2) Replace the processor, which would likely entail replacing the mobo as well, running into some real money.

3) Find a way around the problem.

Is there any way to tell Windows update to leave the video driver alone while updating anything else? I can't find reference to such a thing in the Update menu or in Windows Help.

Alternately, is there any way to shut down the graphics functions of my CPU & make them "invisible" to the system, while keeping the rest of the system functioning? Or would that not help in any case?

Would it be worth trying a Windows repair, or, failing success with that, reinstalling Windows?  (Needless to say, I'd rather avoid the latter if at all humanly possible.) Or would the APU just cause the problem to recur?

I could really use some help with this, thanks. Being unable to keep Windows up to date is making me kind of edgy...

[hardcoregames_]

check for a BIOS update for your motherboard

drivers are one thing but lately there have been a lot of problems even a clean install of windows 1909

I have an R5 2400G so my APU is more or less in the same board. Radeon RX 480 does not help either.

This points fingers at drivers and window 10

[sdgrant22]

Fear I'm doomed then, since the latest BIOS update for the board is 2011, with the last utility update 2014, & that doesn't claim to affect Windows 10 at all. Unless someone knows of a stable 3rd party BIOS update for it... which I'm not expecting...

I don't know if there are any other possibly conflicting drivers in my system, or even how I'd root them out... I suppose a Windows Repair is worth a try nonetheless though I don't expect a better outcome from it... Thanks, though.

[hardcoregames_]

might be time to install windows clean

backup your files, naturally, to another disk

[sdgrant22]

Might be, yes. Think I'll try a repair first, just in case it's just something totally screwed up in the registry.

Failing any improvement, then I'll try a clean install. (Ugh.)

Failing any improvement, time for a hardware upgrade. (Ugh.)

Thanks again.

[kingfish]

AMD does not furnish drivers for that APU/graphics. You must use the drivers furnished by Microsoft.

The following AMD APU products with AMD Radeon™ Graphics support up to WDDM 1.2 and DirectX® 11 on Windows 10:

• AMD A4/A6/A8-3000 Series APUs
• AMD E2-2000 APU
• AMD E1/E2-1000 Series APUs
• AMD E-200/300/400 Series APUs
• AMD C-Series APUs
• AMD Z-Series APUs

NOTE: These APU products must be installed only using the display driver version available via Windows Update. If you have upgraded to Windows® 10, please DO NOT install the AMD Catalyst™ Driver. Instead, enable Windows Update and allow it to detect and install the appropriate driver.

If you have already upgraded to Windows® 10 and installed the AMD Catalyst™ Driver, please follow the steps listed below to resolve this issu

1. Uninstall the AMD Catalyst™ Driver using the Program and Features option in the Control Pane
2. Reboot the system
3. Use Windows Update to install the appropriate graphics driver for the APU.

What you can try is disabling the onboard graphics in the bios and make the 460 independent of it...this would allow the discrete card to be the 'Primary'.

[sdgrant22]

I appreciate the answer but you may notice in my original post I said I'd already done all that. The problem is that even allowing Windows 10 to load the new drivers still crashes Windows upon rebooting, & my only option to get things back working in the short run is to roll the system back to before the update. But since the graphics update is now part of the general Windows update, it's stopping me from updating Windows at all. THAT'S the problem I need to solve now.

I'm pretty sure I already disabled the onboard graphics in the bios but will make certain of it, thanks.

[kingfish]

What shows in your Device Manager? If it's showing two graphics...then you did not disable the onboard graphics and Windows is updating that.

[sdgrant22]

The only thing that shows under Display Adapters is Radeon (TM) RX 460 Graphics.

I've been trying to get into the BIOS settings & the **** computer won't respond to the key it tells me to use on boot. (DEL) I've tried it both with my usual wireless keyboard & the wired keyboard I keep around for emergencies. It just ignores the Del button & goes straight to system load. Oddly, it recognizes the key that takes me to Boot Device Order just fine. If it's not one thing it's another. (Another fun complication while I was trying to get to the BIOS: suddenly my keyboard stopped typing letters & began opening programs. Took me a while to figure out I'd hit my Windows key, which I rarely use & didn't even realize I'd hit, & some bit of dirt or crumb or something was making it stick.... d'oh...)

[kingfish]

You can select System Configuration under Administration tools and choose safe boot

[sdgrant22]

Thanks very much. I’ve searched all over & that solution never once came up. I’ll try it tonight.

[kingfish]

You will have to go back and uncheck the box when your through..or the computer will reboot in safe-mode again

[sdgrant22]

Just to clarify, before I start this process: once I've booted to the BIOS & made any adjustments it'll load Windows as normal? (Doesn't it boot again after changes?) If not, how do I change it back out of safe boot from safe boot? I just want to make sure I'm not starting an infinite loop...

[kingfish]

No...when you finish in the bios...you exit it "Saving changes"

I was referring to using the safe mode short cut in any other situation.

Also:

Drivers and Software

AMD software and drivers are designed to work best for up-to-date operating systems. Please be sure to update your operating system before installing drivers.

[sdgrant22]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I was thinking that was how to force access to the BIOS, since it's not responding to my keyboard signaling (via the DEL key, as the opening screen demands) & just goes ahead & loads the OS. I don't have any problem getting into Safe Mode. Is there any way to force the computer to go to the BIOS settings when it starts up that doesn't involved the keyboard? Without access to the BIOS, I can't be sure I've disable the APU's video components, which are possibly the problem with updating the video driver & keeping me from updating any other part of Windows.

[kingfish]

Method #2 > How to Enter the BIOS on Any PC: Access Keys by Manufacturer | Tom's Hardware 

[sdgrant22]

Thank you, but the problem is the system doesn't want to respond to the alleged access key (DEL) even though I can easily get to the Boot Order setting on the initial screen, & when I try the Advanced Settings, UEFI Firmware Settings doesn't appear as an option. I will try the Linux method they mention.

I'll try F2, too.

[kingfish]

You did this?

Method 2: Use Windows 10's Advanced Start Menu

Unfortunately, some computers go through POST so quickly that there's no time to hit a key. Some desktops won't even recognize input from a USB keyboard until after POST is completed (though they will see input from an old PS2-style keyboard). If you can't use a BIOS key and you have Windows 10, you can use the "Advanced startup" feature to get there.

1. Navigate to Settings.

How to Enter the BIOS on Any PC: Access Keys by Manufacturer | Tom's Hardware 

2. Click Update & Security.

3. Select Recovery in the left pane.

4. Click Restart now under the Advanced startup header.

Your computer will reboot.

5. Click Troubleshoot.

6. Click Advanced options.

7. Click UEFI Firmware Settings.

8. Click Restart to confirm.

 

[edgararroyo]

I have an FX-8350 and an RX460 and Windows 1909 crashed on update.   Are you sure this is CPU/Video Card or just Video Card?  My system is a VM so I can boot with VNC and play around with the drivers.  I just tried the new "Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.12.1" released 12/2/2019 with no success.

EDIT: I installed version 17.1.1 and got an exclamation point on the device and booted with Generic Display Driver, but no hang, good to do system restore point and continue searching for solution.

https://amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-17-1-1

After install, skip ReLive (unless you want that, whatever it is) and skip "Keep system updated" so it doesn't overwrite 17.1.1

If anybody has any luck with newer ones please post findings...  :-)

Hope this helps!

[sdgrant22]

In conclusion: Finally managed to get to the BIOS. There was obviously something corrupted in there b/c the only way I could get to it was to flash the BIOS w/a new copy (even though the BIOS Giga-byte provides hasn't been updated in years), & once I got into the BIOS I discovered that, in fact, the onboard video on the APU WAS active, so I switched off the two settings covering it. And restarted.

To find no OS drive, neither the C: drive nor the blu-ray drive, was being recognized. Over & over. Tried to load a live Linux off the blu-ray, no go. Finally out of nowhere, Windows decides to load in safe mode. Puttered awhile (about half a day) wondering if I'd have to lay out for a new motherboard, CPU, memory & might as well invest in a new system drive (M.2) while I'm at it, & finally figured I needed to try a system repair, b/c obviously while flashing the BIOS I'd somehow badly damaged the Windows boot sector. Dug out as many program activation codes as I could, backed up what personal files I could, disconnected any external USB thumb or hard drives (good for autobacking up any internal drives with the excellent Allway Sync), & ran a system repair. Failing that I figured I'd try a complete reinstallation, & failing that I'd have little choice but to go to a hardware solution.

But it worked. Ran the repair, booted, & it was all back up.

Then came the real test: bringing Windows back up to date. I ran it through several updates, rebooted & held my breath...

It's now 2 days later & it's holding magnificently, w/o a sign of trouble. Most of my system modifications vanished & I have to recreate them but otherwise... yes, the "core" problem apparently was the video function on the APU wasn't deactivated. (Why I'm not sure, as I clearly remember deactivating it... it never worked in collaboration with my videocard as advertised anyway...)

My only question now is: will Windows update the videocard driver or should I switch back to trying to use the  Radeon Software Adrenalin drivers?

Thanks to everyone for all their help. Pretty sure it's finally all worked out.

[hardcoregames_]

The old AM3 platforms mostly have stable BIOS with the default settings.

Usually with a discrete card, the integrated graphics should be disabled.

[sdgrant22]

So do I go back to using the AMD-provided drivers now or keep letting Windows handle the driver updates.

-Grant

[kingfish]

You do not need to install any update if your not having issues. Windows 10 gives you many ways to stop or delay automatic updates. Read and use what is easiest for you > https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/id-Windows_Update/ 

[hardcoregames_]

kingfish wrote:

You do not need to install any update if your not having issues. Windows 10 gives you many ways to stop or delay automatic updates. Read and use what is easiest for you > https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/id-Windows_Update/ 

delaying updates can expose users to recent malware which is very risky

[kingfish]

I doubt delaying/preventing graphics updates would lead to a melt down....risky is "install all updates".

[hardcoregames_]

kingfish wrote:

I doubt delaying/preventing graphics updates would lead to a melt down....risky is "install all updates".

tell that to the people who have been hit with this weeks malware

i cannot name it as the filters here violate free speech and free press

s n a t c h malware was modified recently to be even more insidious

In an incident in October, the attackers brute-forced the password to an administrator’s account on a Microsoft Azure server, and were able to log in to the server using Remote Desktop (RDP).

so you are sure you are not wanting to be updated, I follow security bulletins and find all kinds of crap out there

[kingfish]

We're talking about graphics drivers here:

I doubt delaying/preventing graphics updates would lead to a melt down....risky is "install all updates".

The question was

sdgrant22 (to hardcoregames™) 16 hours ago

So do I go back to using the AMD-provided drivers now or keep letting Windows handle the driver updates.

That don't mean ALL. Your telling this guy to use Windows graphics drivers

[sdgrant22]

Okay, operating on the premise that I’m having graphics trouble (I’m not) & everyone suggests I try upgrading my driver (the 1st thing everyone suggests in those instances) do I install whatever’s the latest version from AMD or do I let Windows handle any driver upgrades? Or will Windows NOT automatically upgrade graphics drivers now, since the APU graphic functions are out of the picture? (No pun intended.)

[kingfish]

If you allow Microsoft to update the graphics driver...it will automatically install the last WHQL drivers that it has. If you are using a driver from AMD that is newer....it will change it back to the WHQL and chances are you will lose the control panel. The best thing to do is use the option to delay graphics driver installation...and again, there is no need to install every driver that comes available, Driver updates, are "fixes". If it doesn't 'fix' any issue you are experiencing....stay with what you have. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.

[hardcoregames_]

kingfish wrote:

If you allow Microsoft to update the graphics driver...it will automatically install the last WHQL drivers that it has. If you are using a driver from AMD that is newer....it will change it back to the WHQL and chances are you will lose the control panel. The best thing to do is use the option to delay graphics driver installation...and again, there is no need to install every driver that comes available, Driver updates, are "fixes". If it doesn't 'fix' any issue you are experiencing....stay with what you have. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.

My GTX 1060 does not get the latest WHQL driver, the driver on windows update is rather old. Even though the recent drivers are WHQL.

[hardcoregames_]

sdgrant22 wrote:

So do I go back to using the AMD-provided drivers now or keep letting Windows handle the driver updates.

-Grant

install all updates 

[kingfish]

Have it your way. Thanks for your input

[hardcoregames_]

the resistance to updates is as bad here as it is with MacBook users. I run the latest version of OS X on my MacBook and the latest on my windows box.

Malwarebytes works on windows and apple doo