Hi everyone, my name is Jacques
I was supposed to post in "OpenGL & Vulkan" as suggested by developer xhuang, but since I am a newcomer I am only allowed to post here.
I am having performance and bug issues in certain games which mostly seems to be driver related to my RX 480 and a lot of other RX 400 and 500 Graphics cards when I read through the forums.
My current system configuration:
Windows 10 64-bit
MSI Radeon RX 480 Gaming X 8G
MSI 990FXA Gaming Motherboard
2x 8GB DDR3 1866Mhz HyperX Fury RAM
FX 8350 processor at stock clockspeeds and motherboard settings.
One DirectX9 game that definitely degraded in performance since Crimson 16.9.2 is Unreal Tournament 3 Black Edition:
* I can confirm a constant 62FPS+ on driver version 16.9.2 on most maps, but
* Since approximately Crimson 17.7.1 or 17.7.2 up until the current 18.10.2 drivers performance has degraded dramatically in this game for my card and can easily be observed in the following scenarios,
> Frame rate fluctuates between ~30FPS-62FPS (when framerate smoothing is enabled in-game) on almost all of the maps, but is more apparent some of the following maps:
> In capture the Flag on Facing worlds the higher up the castle you get, the lower the FPS, GPU Usage gets; in addition, when flying away in spectator mode and looking towards the map FPS
falls down to 30FPS, but in Driver 16.9.2 it stays at 60FPS consistently.
> In warfare on Market place when looking at the center-node from the enemies base FPS also drops down to 30-40FPS with low GPU usage.
> It is important to note that this problems was not apparent in 16.9.2 and that not of the CPU cores max out when this low GPU usage scenarios occur.
Another DirectX9 game that seems to be affected by newer Drivers is Stalker Call Of Prypyap, although the game supports DirectX 11 features, I think the game is natively DirectX9.
To name games that seem to always have performance issues with any of the drivers and this setup even though CPU usage doesn't max out on any of the eight cores are,
* Far Cry 3 (30-40FPS in hometown, but the GPU usage issue was eliminated in this game when paired with the i5 8400. In addition, the performance is related to Water Quality setting)
* The Elder Scrolls of Skyrim
* Just Cause 3 (FPS fluctuates between 30-60)
* Call of Duty WWII
* Crysis 1
* Crysis 2
* Crysis 3 (the GPU usage issue is still persistent in this game when paired with the i5 8400)
* Arma 3
* Hitman 2016 (improves a little when switching to DirectX12, but introduces a lot of stuttering)
* Wolfenstein The New Order
* Wolfenstein The Old Blood
* Sniper Elite 3 doesn't render textures and graphical effects properly when the Mantle executable is used.
Rage developed by ID Software:
> This game performs quite well, but does not render character and vehicle shadows properly when paired with an AMD card, even though it does with intel onboard graphics and nvidia graphics.
Wolfenstein The New Order and Wolfenstein The Old Blood:
> In these two games I believe their are definitely OpenGL driver issues, since not a single CPU core is nearly maxed out at any time, but there are numerous areas where frame rate fluctuates between 30-60FPS while GPU usage is low in these areas.
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus:
> This game performs exceptionally well, but recently there exists an unplayable graphics issue, where the water in the submarine shines so bright it lights up the whole room and you can't see anything but white light in the room.
To conclude, in the majority of the cases with the games listed above, the problem is low GPU utilization in areas where the CPU is not showing bottlenecking on any of the eight cores.
Hope this can get to the driver team.
It's important (while will be quite time consuming) to provide Delta Performance Benchmarks for each Major Driver Release.
Speaking personally with a variety of RX 400/500 w/AMD Processor Systems., I've not seen performance degradation between the Major Releases; however individual Optional Releases can have issues.
I'd also highly recommend performing a Clean (using AMD's Driver Clean Up Utility) to ensure that you have a Clean Chipset and Graphics Driver between tests... as legacy issues can often be retained when not doing a Clean Installation., which is especially true from Crimson on-ward.
Now something to note is that 16.9.2 is the final Driver that uses Legacy Support for APP and ADL., meaning that while it might appear as if the Driver is at fault, you'll actually find that there are issues being caused by 3rd Party Software (MSI Afterburner, Rivatuner, etc.) that rely upon said legacy interfaces.
There are other changes that occurred following said Driver,. such a Native Mantle Support was removed in-favour of Mantle-via-Vulkan., and while they are similar there are some differences that can cause stability or performance issues... the same is true for applications that utilise OpenCL, as well as changes in how Memory Management / Access is handled with the removal of UMA / Hybrid Crossfire (with Crossfire deprecated in Adrenalin onward, and now uses Multi-GPU instead of the Crossfire Interface).
Now as noted., I've not experience any performance degradation myself... however that doesn't mean there has been any improvements either., so classically poor support / performance will remain such.
For example the "Smoothed Framerate" Option in Unreal Engine 3 Games., has for as long as I can remember resulted in *very* inconsistent performance on Radeon Graphics... but then since the introduction of the DirectX 11 "Enhancements", there was also a bigger leaning from Epic to better support GeForce Graphics.
As for Wolfenstein The New Order (and it's DLC New Blood)., it's performance again has been historically bad on all Hardware; but the changes to OpenCL Support are the root cause here. You'll experience similar issues on Rage in terms of performance, still keep in mind the ID Tech 5 Engine was Carmack' last Engine and since the ID Tech 3 Engine he quite consistently included NVIDIA / GeForce Specific "Enhancements" to the Engine; which on OpenGL is much more commonplace as for Optimisation on GeForce it's best to use the NV Extensions.
Hitman 2016 (DirectX 12)., while I'm aware was a showcase piece for DirectX 12 from AMD because via Benchmarks it could show improved performance, it's a poor implementation of the API; and those frame stutters have existed since launch with Square Enix (EIDOS) never addressing it, especially on pure AMD Platforms.
Beyond this the rest of the titles listed are Intel "Preferable" and typically bottlenecked by the CPU., even if it doesn't look like your CPU is the cause of the Bottleneck; they're heavily CPU Bound and rely upon Intel Optimisation approaches. Some of these issues are alleviated with Ryzen-Based Systems., but you'll still be CPU Bottlenecked.
A lot of the "Issues" you're experiencing either you didn't notice them (for whatever reason) on the older Driver, but were still present; or are a legacy issue that isn't been resolved due to no performing a Clean Driver Installation.
Others., you're providing very little information on.
Videos, Screenshots, Consistency / Replicability (with Steps) to Reproduce the issue and Performance Telemetry.
Specifically showcasing areas that the issues are most predominant. This can then provide a basis to work from in regards to replicating the issues within Lab Conditions (with Profilers) to pin down the potential issues; otherwise it's near impossible, especially if the issues can't be replicated.
As noted above, while these issues might be common for you; and maybe even a handful of other people... it doesn't mean that they're universal issues.
It could entirely be an issue with specific Software you're running (say like Anti-Virus Software., VoIP Software with Overlays., etc.); so removing as many of these potential causes as possible, and replicable tests when said issues are guaranteed to occur provides a good basis to work from.
leyvin thank you for your effort, although I wouldn't say it was necessary to this extent.
I am a newcomer to this forum, but certainly not a newcomer to computers, I have recently developed a web-based system for a new business and have been programming for nine years now, and have also done an advanced multiprocessor programming module on university and an operating systems implementation module where, according to my knowledge, it is up to the operating system and CPU drivers to allocate the resources to the CPU in an efficient manner; furthermore, the only thing the external programmer can do is to create threads in their source code and make certain no "race conditions" occur by mutual exclusions with techniques such as locking. I have personally not seen an Application Programming Interface that allows you to optimize code for specifically only AMD- or Intel CPUs in a programming language, since that is up to the Operating System.
I understand and have tried almost all these methods you have mentioned, and can assure you in this case it is not the 3rd party programs causing the problems, since I do not have anything else installed than my graphics driver and the latest windows updates, because I have reinstalled windows 3 times in the last week and a half to see if Windows 7 might have helped improving the performance, but showed exactly the same results in Unreal Tournament 3 with driver 16.9.2 and then newer drivers than 17.7.1.
I addition, I did not mean that their was degrading performance in all games and specifically said that Unreal Tournament 3 is definitely one such game that has degrading performance with RX 400, RX 500 cards in drivers newer than 17.7.1. The reason why I am saying it is more specific to the RX series cards, is because we have an R9 280x that performs perfectly on the latest 18.10.2 drivers in Unreal Tournament 3 with the same CPU.
Furthermore, I also have an i7 870 2.9Ghz and it has exactly the same performance issues as my FX 8350 when combined with the RX 480 even though the FX 8350 has better multicore performance, but approximately the same single core performance.
The reason why I have not uploaded screenshots, is because I did not have the time and I could've cheated by limiting the frame rate with FRTC in Radeon settings, so it holds just as much value as mentioning the figures in this text and I can't take videos of every scene, because we do not have uncapped Internet bandwidth.
I feel I was rather specific in the details of how to recreate the issue in Unreal Tournament 3, in which maps and in which locations of the maps. I admit I wasn't that specific in the other games due to time constraints and trying to keep it short and simple, but in the two IDTech 5 Wolfenstein games almost half of every map has frame rate issues and low GPU & CPU utilization in those areas with these CPUs. To elaborate on these Wolfenstein's, I have seen performance videos on youtube.com where similar nvidia GPUs & FX 8350 CPU do not have these low GPU utilization and FPS issues in the same areas, but as you have said this is partly due to the ID Tech 5 engine featuring things like Nvidia GPU transcoding, but I do not believe this to be the only cause since the CPU handles the megatextures when using an AMD GPU.
And there are a lot of games performing very well on the newest drivers that have not seen degrading performance, but specifically Unreal Tournament 3 has, and possibly the STALKER games since I have experienced more performance issues in them than on when using 16.9.2. In addition, Hitman: Blood Money has flickering shadows in the tutorial mission and later missions on all the wooden logs and a lot of static objects which was also not persistent in driver version 16.9.2. Furthermore, I am not currently experiencing performance issues in RAGE, just the shadows that are not rendering properly or sometimes not at all when using any of our AMD Radeon Cards, but they do show properly on Intel and Nividia graphics drivers.
One more thing, I am always using the latest Windows versions and doing clean installs of the Display Drivers before I submit these type of reports, and I test them with and without performance monitoring tools.
I am not trying to be difficult at all, I am just trying to inform the driver team of the issues that exist and I am genuine in the Frame Rate figures that I have given in my first post and would like to help AMD in fixing them so that I can enjoy their products as well.
This is an example of the performance in Skyrim, and please note I have also tested it without MSI Afterburner, with Steam in-game FPS monitor and then without any third party monitoring programs and the low performance due to utilization is still present.
This is on the latest recommended Adrenaline Driver 18.9.3 and also the newest optional driver, and is definitely not a CPU bottleneck.
Skyrim also has performance issues on 16.9.2, but not as frequent as in the latest drivers, only when near the bridge at the river just to the right of Whiterun. This particular screenshot is at the first mine when you just escaped from the dragon at the start of the game; in addition, in this picture you can see my GPU speed downclocking due to underutilization, it is supposed to be at 1303Mhz which is the stock boost clock of this card which it easily maintains in games such as Battlefield 4 within safe temperatures.
The 19% represents my automatic GPU fan speed at that moment.
This is the problem I was trying to describe, no hardware bottlenecking, just hardware underutilization with current drivers in certain games.
These are some pictures of RAGE and Unreal Tournament 3. I must also note that RAGE performance has also degraded in current drivers which was not present.
The black bar where I am aiming in the picture of RAGE is the only part of the shadow being rendered of the quad wheeler.
Furthermore, the picture of unreal tournament showcases the performance issue with all the drivers I tried after 16.9.2 (17.7.1 was possibly still good).
Good day everyone
I would just like to find out if there are any new findings on this subject.
I have tested the scenario's in 18.9.3 and the newest driver 18.11.2 and the performance problems are still present.