General Discussions

[Kurbiss]

Recently I've been getting FPS drops in some of my favourite games, which is a big problem for me, as I'm a competitive player.

I've been looking at a lot of forums and never found a solution so I'm asking here.

I download MSI afterburner to get a better view on my components usage and it appears that when I get FPS drops, none of them reaches 100% usage. My CPU (Ryzen 5 1400) sits around 60% usage and my GPU (RX 570) usage actually drops a little bit, surprisingly.

Important to say that the FPS drops occur when there is a lot of shooting in-game.

(Red circles on the screenshots show when I got an FPS drop)

(sorry it's in french, puissance=power / utilisation=usage / horloge=clock)

Does anyone have an idea of what the problem is ?

[Thanny · Accepted solution]

With that one thread at 12.19% usage, yes.  12.5% exactly corresponds to 100% usage on the thread.  While your CPU has headroom overall, that game isn't spreading the load sufficiently to use it.  You need faster single-core speed to improve performance in that game.

If you were to upgrade to something like the R5 3600, you'd probably net a 30%+ increase out of the box.  In the US, you can get that now for $200.  A R3 3300X would give you similar results (maybe better due to single-CCX latency), but they're hard to find.  I did see one site (search for :shopblt") claiming they had some incoming on the 5th, with a price of $121, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.

[Kurbiss]

Could the fact that my GPU usage slightly drops when I get FPS drops mean that my power supply is getting old and should be replaced ?

[leyvin]

I'd say look at what your CPU is doing at the time.

In blunt terms here... if your PSU is unable to Deliver the Power that the GPU needs., you'd KNOW about it.
As that tends to trigger the Motherboard Surge Protector and/or Microsoft (Windows) Faulty Hardware Detection...

When that happens, either you'll get a Blue Screen with a :'( Face and a QR Code; or your System will just randomly Reboot... heck sometimes it'll do both. 

So no, I think it's just your CPU isn't quite keeping up with everything you want it to do.
Try closing Non-Essential Desktop Apps., such-as MSI Afterburner, Discord, Xbox App, Web Browser, etc.
Radeon Settings / Overlay does come with Built-In OCAT Powered Performance Metrics; and it's much more lightweight for such a task.

Still it could always be the specific game engine... remember it's only recently that Developers have actually bothered to start supporting AMD Processor Architectures properly. 

[Kurbiss]

Thank you for the answer !

I actually already tried playing with ALL Non-Essential Desktop Apps and it didn't change anything.
(and I had the same problems before using afterburner, when I only used the Radeon Overlay)

Also, as my CPU almost never reaches 100% usage, could it really still be the problem ?

[leyvin]

On Task Manager., switch to the Performance Tab > CPU > Right-Click "Change Graph To" (Logical Processors)

This will show you ALL of the CPU Cores / Threads, not just an Avg.
I really don't think the issue here is your Power Supply... it's almost certainly something else, and yeah my money is on the CPU.

[Nicolle]

I searched a bit about your problem my friend and this can be caused by overheating or any attempts to conserve battery power. Sudden slowdowns, where the game is running fine and then the frame rate drops quite suddenly, are sometimes caused by these CPU slowdowns.

I recommend you reading this article https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2715-YIPD-6873

[Kurbiss]

Hey, thank you for your answer !

I followed the link and read the article, and I'm still not sure this is my problem.
I played and watched my CPU temp while getting fps drops and it never goes above 51°C... If it was trying to avoid overheating, wouldn't it be much hotter ? 51°C is completely fine for a CPU temp isn't it ?

Although I did try playing Valorant with maximum graphics instead of the lowest and I got almost exactly the same fps with never more than 40% GPU usage, which is interesting even though I still don't know what conclusion to make from that. Couldn't it still be the power supply restraining it ?

BTW I clean the dust on my PC pretty often, but I never changed my thermal paste since I built the PC about 4-5 years ago, and never removed the processor from its slot. Could that be a problem ? The fan is working fine. I know there is some dust around it though, that I can't clean without removing everything, which I'm afraid to do because processors are so fragile and I wouldn't know what to do with the thermal paste.

I'm adding screenshots of a little gaming session in which I got FPS drops, if it could help someone more qualified than me confirm what was said above !

[Thanny]

60% usage on a 4-core processor with SMT means all four cores are running at max, with SMT allowing a little more work to be done.

100% usage means all eight threads are maxed, which isn't going to happen in a gaming load.

You are suffering from a CPU bottleneck, which is supported by the fact that your GPU usage drops when the frame rate drops, because the CPU can't keep the GPU fed at those times.

[Kurbiss]

Oh wow okay, you're 100% sure of this ?

That would mean my only solution is upgrading my CPU ?

It's weird though because a while ago my PC used to run fine, and I changed nothing in it. Is it possible for a CPU to "get old" like this and no longer be able to keep up like it used to ?

[Thanny]

Are you saying the same games run slower now?  Because newer games are more demanding on the CPU.

As for my certainty, I have none.  I'm just drawing a conclusion based on the information given.

Something you can do, which is easier if you have two monitors, is run Process Explorer and open the properties of the game process while it's running.  Go to the Threads page, then sort by CPU descending.  With eight logical processors, you're looking for 12.5% usage, or very close to it, on a single thread.  That indicates that the CPU is maxed out on that thread, which means you're CPU is bottlenecking the GPU.

[Kurbiss]

I downloaded Process explorer but the app got me a little lost... 

Here is a screenshot (Valorant all the way down) :

Is this the proof you needed about bottlenecking ?

[Kurbiss]

Also yeah, I'm pretty sure all my games used to run much better without fps drops a few months/years ago.

[Kurbiss]

Okay my bad. I don't know how to remove a post, but anyway I realised I didn't exactly do what you did. Here is a screenshot of what you told me to look at :

I'm now very much guessing this is THE proof that my CPU is bottlenecking my GPU ?

[Thanny · Accepted solution]

With that one thread at 12.19% usage, yes.  12.5% exactly corresponds to 100% usage on the thread.  While your CPU has headroom overall, that game isn't spreading the load sufficiently to use it.  You need faster single-core speed to improve performance in that game.

If you were to upgrade to something like the R5 3600, you'd probably net a 30%+ increase out of the box.  In the US, you can get that now for $200.  A R3 3300X would give you similar results (maybe better due to single-CCX latency), but they're hard to find.  I did see one site (search for :shopblt") claiming they had some incoming on the 5th, with a price of $121, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.

[Kurbiss]

Waw okay...

So my only solution here to stop my fps drops in games is to upgrade my CPU ?

Thank you very much for your help btw, although I don't understand every words you say (I'm not even native english, makes it harder). Would the upgrade you're talking about only benefit to some framerates in a few games or would my pc run much better overall ?

I'm getting into details because this would mean spending about 200€ (I'm from Europe) and that's a lot so I wouldn't want to go wrong on this.

Also would the R5 3600 be an interesting investment ? That is I wouldn't need to upgrade my CPU again for a few years, even if I upgrade my GPU ?

[Thanny]

The R5 3600 will do well in games for at least a few years.  It will also be faster in everything else as well, of course.

It's likely you'll need a BIOS update to use the newer processor.  What's the make and model of your motherboard?

[Kurbiss]

My motherboard is an MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS !
I wouldn't need to change it to put the new CPU in, right ?

Until I buy the new CPU (which is probably gonna take me a while), is there anything of your knowledge that I could do to get a little bit less fps drops ?
I've seen a few forums talking about overclocking ryzens ?

[Kurbiss]

Also I've heard that RAM is very important to the CPU, and it says the R5 3600 needs a dual channel DDR4 3200MHz ?

Except my RAM is DDR4 2400MHz, would that be a problem ?

[Thanny]

You'll need to download and install the BIOS update from here before you can replace the CPU.

As for memory, faster is certainly better, but you'll still be a lot faster with just the CPU upgrade.  You can also try overclocking the memory a bit, though you'll want to run stability tests (Prime95 for a few hours to start, then Memtest86 for about a day when Prime95 reports no errors) to make sure it's working properly.

If you want to spend a bit more for better memory altogether, you'll get the best bang for the buck with 32GB in two dual-rank 16GB DIMMs, which will range in cost from around $150 to $200.  Sometimes it's hard to figure out if the DIMMs are dual-rank, so you'll want to dig deeper to find out.  Having two ranks for channel allows rank interleaving, which improves performance by a decent amount.

If you end up with an R5 3600 with 32GB of DDR4-3200, you'll have good performance for several years.  And you can always use your existing RAM and upgrade later if you decide it's worth it.

[Kurbiss]

Thanks A LOT for your time and help !

Just one last question, do I have to download and install the BIOS update from the link you gave me before changing my CPU or will my PC run fine after changing the CPU and I'll be able to update the BIOS then ? (if the second case, then - out of curiosity - what's the point of this update ?)

And thanks for the info, so the websites saying the R5 3600 needs 3200MHz RAM are just not including the other possibilities, right ? 2400MHz is fine ?
If yeah, then I'll wait some more time before upgrading the RAM then, buying a new processor will be expensive enough. 

[Thanny · Accepted solution]

You need to update the BIOS before replacing the CPU.

When some site says the 3600 "needs" 3200 RAM, they're saying it gets its best performance that way.  The higher the RAM speed, the higher the Infinity Fabric speed, up to a point, which increases overall performance.  So you definitely want the faster RAM, but you don't need it.

[Kurbiss]

Okay thank you !

But also, isn't it surprising that I started to get bottlenecking problems only a few months ago, while my PC is 4 years old and I didn't have any of these problems then ?

[Kurbiss]

I just wanna say a MASSIVE THANKS to you Thanny for helping me, it probably didn't take you much time but it still did and you completely fixed my problem. I got the R5 3600 and I now have constant 130 FPS on high graphics on the most important games.

You literally saved my gaming life.

Thank you kind stranger !

[Thanny]

Glad I could help.

[Kurbiss]

Hey Thanny, I'm back and in need of help once again... 

I don't even know if you'll manage to see this but since you were literally a savior to me before I really need you now.