General Discussions

[kingfish]

If you’re a Ryzen 3000 owner (or planning to be in the near future), be advised — Bungie’s popular Destiny 2 MMO doesn’t currently run on AMD’s latest CPU. It’s not clear why this is currently the case, but according to the developer, a fix is on the way. It will, however, require a motherboard update to resolve.

Bungie Help‏ @BungieHelp

AMD has identified the issue impacting the ability to run Destiny 2 on Ryzen 3000 processors and have implemented a BIOS fix that has been distributed to partners. In the coming days, players will be able to download the updated BIOS from their motherboard providers.

The problem cropped up a few days ago when Ryzen 3000 early upgraders found they couldn’t run the game. A week ago, Redditor Trinsikk posted:

Destiny does not work on pc with the new Ryzen 3000 series Cpu’s. After clicking the play button on battlenet it says the game is running and the destiny 2 exe will show up in task manager but only shows that its using 5-10% cpu but it never will start. A couple threads have popped up on the bungie forums and it seems to be affecting all variants of motherboard /ryzen 3000 setups. Tried reinstalling windows 3 times over with full formats between and reinstalling drivers each time. Bungie halp.

It’s not unusual for a new platform to have a few bugs that need to be shaken out, but this is a bit unusual — we don’t recall the last time a UEFI update was required to shake the bugs out of a specific game. In this case, there may be an issue with how Rdrand instructions are being issued on AMD processors. According to Michael Larabel, there’s some evidence of Linux hiccups on the new AMD CPUsas well, and the new CPUs are having some issue booting certain Linux distributions. It seems possible that the issues are related. If so, motherboard updates should resolve the issue.

AGESA updates have been demonstrated to improve both the performance and compatibility of Ryzen CPUs in the past. When Ryzen first launched, AMD noted that gaming performance and overall compatibility would both improve over time. This was indeed the case — our initial Gigabyte board that we tested back in 2017 was unable to boot Linux until later updates solved the problem, and the overall performance of first-gen Ryzen indeed improved over time. When we revisited the CPU’s performance later in 2017, we found it had picked up speed in multiple benchmarks.

The situation with X570 has been much better; AMD’s overall single-threaded performance is stronger now with the Ryzen 3000 family than it was when first-gen debuted, but there are obviously a few compatibility hiccups still to be addressed. If you’re a Destiny 2 player, watch your motherboard vendor support page for updates.

Destiny 2 Doesn't Currently Run on Ryzen 3000 CPUs, but a Fix Is Coming - ExtremeTech 

[qwixt]

Sounds like a microcode fix.

[ajlueke]

Yup.  Since I play quite a bit of that title, I haven't even considered the Ryzen 3000 series upgrade.  No new Destiny compatible UEFI downloads available for m motherboard yet.

[black_zion]

Looks like those fixes will have to wait a bit longer, AMD just pulled the AGESA due to a bug.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-buggy-agesa-1.0.0.3aba-microcode,39974.html

[ajlueke]

By the time they have the PBO and Destiny 2 issues ironed out, they'll be butting up against the microcode release for the 3950X.

[pokester]

I find it amazing that AMD doesn't have someone testing these chips on the most popular games before launch. 

[black_zion]

I find it amazing that a GAME has an issue with a processor so severe it requires a microcode update instead of just a game patch.

[qwixt]

I don't think of it like that. I think the game exposed a valid assembly execution sequence that made it through testing and needed to be patched because it does not work. Also, if left as is, AMD is admitting that this processor is not 100% compatible with all the other amd and intel x86 processors.

[pokester]

I don't know how you can blame a game that was out before the CPU?

[black_zion]

Blame a game for requiring AMD to issue a new microcode update to fix the issues instead of fixing issues themselves, an issue to which no other game is having no matter if it's a golden oldie from the early 2000s? Something's amiss here. Linux issues are understandable considering the level of access and control an OS has, but this is a game designed to run on top of an OS, and I'm having trouble conceptualizing exactly what could be so wrong that Bungie can't handle it itself, especially since Destiny 2 has a history of not playing nice with AMD chips, remember the Phenom II issue?

[qwixt]

In this case, there may be an issue with how Rdrand instructions are being issued on AMD processors...and the new CPUs are having some issue booting certain Linux distributions. It seems possible that the issues are related.

Wiki:

RDRAND is an instruction for returning random numbers from an Intel on-chip hardware random number generator which has been seeded by an on-chip entropy source.RDRAND is available in Ivy Bridge processors and is part of the Intel 64 and IA-32instruction set architectures. AMD added support for the instruction in June 2015

Wiki also mentions that there might be an issue with Rdrand instructions as far as security goes, so some linux distributions do not use it due to "Relying solely on the hardware random number generator which is using an implementation sealed inside a chip which is impossible to audit is a BAD idea". They are worried about the NSA being able to use a backdoor via rdrand to hack the OS.

Anyway, it sounds like AMD just did not code this instruction correct. Microcode fixes are for CPUs that do not operate correctly or to spec, like when all those security issues were found. They are not patches for software. The game is irrelevant in this. It just exposed the bug for a faulty processor.

So do you fix the bug in the processor, or require every application to not use the buggy instruction? Don't forget that the application might not even know it's using the instruction because that's what the compiler is for.

Now if it is in the rdrand instruction, Destiny 2 is probably using some common library for getting their random numbers and it is using rdrand instruction for it. But game devs are pretty smart when it comes to optimization, so they might have coded their own random number generator for performance reason and/or other reasons, because typically speaking, random number generators can be quite slow. Either way, it's not their job to code around a single faulty processor.

[pokester]

Well that really depends on exactly what the problem is. If it is a software issue with the game then yes they should fix it in the game. If it is a hardware/firmware issue then AMD should fix it if they can. Regardless NO OTHER CPU INCLUDING AMD's were having issues.

[pokester]

I had a Phenom II on launch. The triple core. I remember tons of game not working on them not just Bungie. It was months before it worked right with most. Fallout 3 never did get a fix to work. 

[black_zion]

I got an X3 720 in February 2009 and can honestly say I never had a problem with a game because of that.

[pokester]

Well you must not have played many games because the 3 core count was an issue for a bunch of games. You were fine if you had 2 or 4 cores but not 3. 

[black_zion]

Quite a number, but granted that was a year after it had released in 2008.

[pokester]

I would say the lions share was fixed within 6 months, that or for a while you had to disable a core in the bios to play. By the time the 6 cores came out there were some issues there too but not as bad and that got fixed quick. Some developers like Bethesda were horrible back then about never updating their games.

[ajlueke]

I also picked up a Phenom II 940 early in 2009, and don't recall any specific issues in games.

[ajlueke]

I agree it does seem a bit odd.  The game engine interacts with the hardware with Windows serving as an intermediary.  The game launches correctly in older Ryzen hardware, even with the latest microcode installed, indicating that the problem is specific to how Windows interacts with the 3000 series.  So one would imagine that a Windows update could fix the problem?

I don't think the onus is really on Bungie to issue a fix, as the title works properly as currently coded with all other hardware.  But it is strange that the issue only surfaced with this one specific title.  So somehow Windows can't properly access the 3000 series processors based off Bungie's code, but it can for the 2000 series?  Must have something to do with the chiplet design and how Windows schedules those threads, as users have reported that Destiny 2 appears in the taskmanger, but with very low utilization.

[hardcoregames_]

I updated my BIOS to support new processors but I am still using my R5 2400G

Destiny 2 still seems to be working so far. I have been checking in on Reddit a fair bit mostly for game related news.

[whyamd333]

Na...There might be a fix coming but its not in any kind of urgency for AMD. Very few people are talking about this issue ya this thread and maybe a few on reddit but its not very loud. Even this thread only has what 4 people talking about it. AMD knows this CPU is running every game on the planet and every benchmark known to mankind and they all run great. This is just one game that wont run big deal...Hey I hope I am wrong as all heck but I don't think so. This is going to take forever to fix.

[black_zion]

ASUS released beta BIOSs containing the updated AGESA today for X370, B450, and X470 boards, so it shouldn't be much longer before non beta versions are released from all manufacturers, as soon as they complete internal testing.

https://www.rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?112279-X370-X470-AGESA-1003AB-Bioses

[hardcoregames_]

MSI revised their budget and mainstream motherboards with new 32MB flash BIOS to handle the space squeeze, called MAX these are based on A32, B450 and X470 chipsets and the are all identified as MAX to identify the new 32MB BIOS chips

[whyamd333]

I Just looked I did not see any beta bios for my Asus B450 motherboard...dont get me wrong I hope the heck your right but I see no beta bios on there website. Its kinda scary anyway my 3600 is running great right now but Destiny 2 is my go to game and I sure as heck don't want to flash my bios and screw it all up....IDK It really pisses me off that of all the flipping games that it wont play its my main go to game....

[hardcoregames_]

whyamd333 wrote:

I Just looked I did not see any beta bios for my Asus B450 motherboard...dont get me wrong I hope the heck your right but I see no beta bios on there website. Its kinda scary anyway my 3600 is running great right now but Destiny 2 is my go to game and I sure as heck don't want to flash my bios and screw it all up....IDK It really pisses me off that of all the flipping games that it wont play its my main go to game....

At present MSI is standing along with the move to 32MB BIOS chips as way to get around the problem of a space shortage. With double the space there is room for all AM4 CPU tables and all future processors easily.

I expect the rest of the industry to take notice and do something about it too.

[black_zion]

I think this is the best place to post this. From the TomsHardware article on AMD's response to the Ryzen 3000 series issues:

Just imagine if AMD had required mandatory USB Flashback capabilities...hopefully that will happen with Socket AM5.

[whyamd333]

OK Maybe some good news maybe? sounds kinda like a work around we'll have to wait and see....

Posted byu/AMD_Robert Technical Marketing22 hours ago

PLACEHOLDER: Update on WHEA Warnings, Destiny 2, and desktop idle on July 30
News
Hello, friends.
Please set a remindme! on this post for Tuesday morning (30 July) Central Daylight Saving Time (CDT). We have a comprehensive update coming for you regarding the WHEA warnings in the Windows Event Log; Destiny 2 game launch; and desktop idle behavior.
We're putting the finishing touches on it, and wanted to let y'all know when to expect it as soon as I could. I will edit this post with the final details on 7/30.

LINK: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ciajef/placeholder_update_on_whea_warnings_destiny_2_and/ 

[whyamd333]

Well I just ran the new beta chipset and played Destiny 2 for an hour with my 3600 and had zero issues. My temps did go up a bit but nothing to worry about so tomorrows official update announcement is going to be even better news for D2 fans.

[ajlueke]

It is strange that after all the hullabaloo about Destiny 2 needing a microcode update to fix the game, they ultimately just issue a chipset driver to fix the issue, no UEFI updates required.

[black_zion]

It's only a temporary workaround until the new AGESA BIOSs get released, though AMD doesn't elaborate on what the issue actually is. Since it's a chipset driver I doubt it has anything to do with CPU instructions...

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/07/30/community-update-5-let-s-talk-clocks-volt... 

[whyamd333]

Thanks I read that but re-read is worth reading again. OK so I have the beta 1.07.26 and it works I wander if I shroud install this official one 1,07,29 ? MSI already has a bios update out that's getting on top of it , Asus will drag there feet and it will take forever and I have Asus grrrrr.

[black_zion]

If it works, don't attempt to fix it.

[kingfish]

Or as Pappy said.."If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

[whyamd333]

Ya there's probably a lot more updates coming anyway. At least I can play Destiny 2 now so ill leave it.

[Earnhardt]

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-ryzen-3000-issues-solved-with-chipset-driver-update.html

[ajlueke]

Looks like the UEFI update is out for my X370 ASRock Fata1ty Professional Gaming.

Interesting that this is the first UEFI I have seen where the manufacturer doesn't recommend it with anything but Matisse.  Also, support for Bristol Ridge was dropped entirely.

Destiny 2 must really have been trying to use the hardware a fundamentally different way, that fixing it in the microcode potentially negatively impacts all previous Ryzen generations.

[black_zion]

I'm not so sure that there's a negative impact, but much moreso likely that ASRock only vetted that BIOS for Ryzen 3000 chips, since if it decreased performance on Ryzen 2000 and 1000 series it would likely have shown up in the chipset driver which mitigated the issue. Still, it would be nice to know exactly what Destiny 2 does differently than every other program in existence...

[hardcoregames_]

ajlueke wrote:

Looks like the UEFI update is out for my X370 ASRock Fata1ty Professional Gaming.

Interesting that this is the first UEFI I have seen where the manufacturer doesn't recommend it with anything but Matisse.  Also, support for Bristol Ridge was dropped entirely.

Destiny 2 must really have been trying to use the hardware a fundamentally different way, that fixing it in the microcode potentially negatively impacts all previous Ryzen generations.

Bristol Ridge was dropped as the 16MB BIOS had no room for them. This is why MSI is moving to 32MB BIOS chips.

[pokester]

So it will not support your chip?

[hardcoregames_]

pokester wrote:

So it will not support your chip?

I am thinking of getting an open frame chassis so that when problems surface it's easier to analyze