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honzak
Adept I

CPU cooling

So, I got an idea that I'm 99.9% sure was already considered before by both AMD and Intel, but I'll give it a shot:

 

I heard some time ago that CPUs could be much more powerful, but there are thermal issues so they would simply melt. What about making a CPU, that has a normal air/liquid cooling option available, but on top of that has some build in AIO cooling as well? like having tiny tubes between cores/groups of cores to help with the cooling even more. my next suggestion is to use something like gallium instead of water (if I remember correctly it cools better), or maybe some complex chemical compound, idk.

 

Is this a great idea or simply a dumb idea because there would be many cpu failures because of micro errors in the manufacturing process? Please let me know.

 

 

PS: also idk how to use labels, I tried cpu, processor, cooling, aio, development and it said to me that none of them exist, it would be nice to have some drop down selection option so you see what what is available

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FunkZ
Grandmaster

Idk about coolant tubes through the silicon, but as core density continues to increase I foresee the IHS eventually being eliminated, and direct die cooling returning with manufacturer GPU-like packaging on the CPU. The IHS adds anywhere from 5-20°C which at some point is an unacceptable trade-off. Manufacturers will package the processor with integrated cooling solution in one, just as we had years ago with Slot A/1.

 

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interesting I'll look into it because I never heard about it before

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jamessmith6112
Journeyman III

Your idea of integrating built-in AIO (All-In-One) cooling directly within the CPU die itself is certainly interesting, but there are several technical challenges that would need to be addressed to make it feasible. Let’s break down your idea:

1. Tiny Cooling Tubes Between Cores:

The concept of using tiny tubes between cores to enhance cooling is an extension of the current use of thermal interfaces and heat spreaders. However, incorporating tubes (even small ones) directly into the CPU die could present several major challenges:

  • Manufacturing Complexity: Embedding cooling systems within the chip would significantly increase the complexity of manufacturing. CPUs are typically built using a process that involves many layers of metal and insulating materials, and adding functional fluid-carrying tubes within the silicon die would be extremely difficult. It would require perfect precision, which could increase failure rates, especially when considering the tiny scales involved.

  • Heat Transfer Efficiency: The cooling fluid inside the tiny tubes would have to efficiently transfer heat from the hot spots on the die. While liquid cooling is effective, it would require a very high level of heat conductivity to deal with the heat produced by modern CPUs, and water or gallium-based fluids might not be able to handle the power densities of future CPUs without causing thermal management issues like boiling or vaporization.

  • Pressure & Leakage: Even tiny tubes would be under pressure from the cooling system, and the risk of leaks, especially when dealing with the high temperatures and fine tolerances inside a CPU, is a significant concern. In the event of a leak, the consequences could be catastrophic for the chip.

2. Using Gallium or Other Complex Fluids:

Gallium-based coolants are more thermally conductive than water, but they come with their own set of issues:

  • Corrosive Properties: Gallium is known to be highly corrosive to metals, particularly to alloys used in many CPU parts (such as solder). It could cause long-term degradation of the chip's components and lead to failure over time.

  • Material Compatibility: In addition to the corrosion issue, finding materials that can withstand the presence of gallium in a small, confined space would be a significant challenge. This would require rethinking the entire construction of a CPU.

  • Risk of Damage: Even if you managed to get gallium to work as a coolant, it could potentially degrade the CPU die itself, especially if any microcracks or manufacturing errors were present. Gallium can penetrate and embrittle metals, which could affect the integrity of the chip and lead to long-term reliability issues.

3. Reliability and Failures:

The reliability of such a design would indeed be a major concern. Any micro errors in the manufacturing process could lead to catastrophic failure. Additionally, the complexity of adding a liquid-cooling system inside the chip would increase the likelihood of failure rates, particularly as the miniaturization of components continues. The more intricate the design, the harder it becomes to guarantee consistent performance across millions of units.

4. Existing Alternatives:

Currently, both AMD and Intel are using advanced cooling methods, but these are typically external to the chip itself (like air or liquid-based coolers, or high-end custom cooling solutions). Some modern CPUs, such as those used in high-performance and server applications, have integrated heat spreaders and even micro-channel coolers that help spread heat more effectively across the chip.

AIO (All-in-One) coolers are currently external solutions that can effectively cool CPUs, but embedding such systems directly into the die would require completely new manufacturing techniques, and the thermal design power (TDP) of modern processors might not be feasible to manage in this way.

Conclusion:

While your idea of integrating internal cooling into the CPU die is creative, it faces significant technical challenges, including manufacturing complexity, material compatibility, and potential long-term reliability issues. For now, external cooling solutions such as advanced AIO systems, liquid nitrogen (for extreme overclocking), and active cooling solutions for high-end CPUs are more feasible options.

In the future, there may be innovations in cooling technologies that could make something like this possible, but for now, it's an interesting idea with too many obstacles to overcome.

As for the label issue, it sounds like you're trying to find specific categories for your post. On some forums or systems, labels can be restrictive, so it might be helpful to use general terms like "CPU cooling," "processor design," or "thermal management" to help others find and follow your ideas more easily.

Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense But why aren't AMD and Intel developing optical electronic CPUs? meaning they would use photons instead or electrons. I recently saw one video about some research center that is developing it and it looks like it is much faster and has practically no thermal issues when compared to electron-tech. Is there something about it that I don't know yet that complicates it? I understand that you'd need a special board special gpu and special power supply, also something that could change the photon singnals to electrons and back so you can use keyboard mouse monitor and internet, but after that there's like >100 times performance increase? I don't really get why there isn't more development for this kind of technology

 

here's the video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBqfzj6CEzI

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