General Discussions

[black_zion]

Well this is highly disappointing, especially considering this is the last of Socket AM4, with Zen 4 coming on a new socket. Would you buy a new motherboard just to support one generation of processors, when the next will come with such massive improvements like PCIe 5, DDR5, and USB4, especially since you just spent $300+ on an X370/X470 board a year or two? I sure as heck ain't, and I have a feeling quite a number of people will feel the same.

Per https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2020/05/07/the-exciting-future-of-amd-socket-am4  And AMD's official side:

[pokester]

Heck the chart isn't even correct. Looking at that 350 and 370 don't have 3xxx support and they most certainly do.

This is nothing but a lie born of laziness to do what is right and likely appeasing AIB partners that just want to sell more boards. 

It is very possible that higher core count processor in the new line could have issue on the older boards. Certainly however many of the new line could be compatible and it would be easy to support them by removing support for the older processor. You could even have a couple flavors of the bios to offer the different levels of support. 

Nobody would be upset had AMD not been the ones to promise this support to begin with. However since they did, many of us made purchasing decisions that would have been different had we had correct information.

Then acting as they are full-filling their commitment by having the B550 (still not even widely available and nearly a year since Ryzen 3xxx came out) be compatible what a joke. It better support it, it's a new upcoming board. 

This is beyond disappointing. 

Plus the title is irritating too. The exciting future of AM4. Not much of one as we now need a new board and it won't be supported by Ryzen 5xxxx either!

[pokester]

Something else I noticed in looking back at internet archives. AMDs statement in 2017 said support through 2020. Now they backtrack and say until 2020. Big difference! By a year and that is an eternity in this industry.

[elpuertorro]

through 2020 = as the year goes through day by day they will support until the last day of 2020, so far they are on track. so not a lie or retrackting

until 2020 = until the last day of 2020, and if I'm not mistaken we are still in 2020 no? so then not a lie
So they have kept their word so far and launching the B550.

Did they ever say support for the CPU? Weird I could have sworn it was support until 2020 for THE AM4 Socket!
See the BIG difference.

Don't forget you can always go back and buy another cpu that gets a new socket on the board EVERY TIME the next gen cpu comes out


ps: That has been known for quite some time where have you been?

[pokester]

I can understand your wanting to defend a company many of us have loved supporting and will continue to support. It too love to support AMD and have my entire career, but you are inaccurate in your statements. 

I did my homework before opening my mouth.

First of check out the internet archive "archive_org" I found over 20 references of this commitment from various AMD employees and interviews with hardware sites and that was not even an exhaustive search. 

This one from this forum in May of 2019 for instance:

This is Erin Maiorino stating it would be supported THROUGH 2020 in May of 2019

"With the launch of the AM4 platform in 2016, we at AMD made a commitment to maintain and support socket AM4 through 2020."  

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/05/27/socket-am4-platform-longevity-getting-ryz...

This statement:

"Did they ever say support for the CPU? Weird I could have sworn it was support until 2020 for THE AM4 Socket!
See the BIG difference."

They not even said it they even published pictures stating it. I don't have to recall it I found it. 

Remember that that Ryzen 3XXX is not 3rd gen it is second. Ryzen 2XXX was zen+ and 3xxx is Zen 2, the first chips to use the upcoming third gen also are 7nm+ Zen 3 still not released.

This is AMD's roadmap slide from years ago and statement, also definitively, answering your question of the CPU's being claimed to be supported. 

This discussion form 2017 discussion with James Prior AMD Senior Product Manager who claims that AM4 would be compatible with future processors along with an AMD furnished roadmap picture supplied by AMD, showing Zen 3 being supported back in 2017

"AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

AMD Socket AM4 represents the company’s future-proof platform targeting the fastest DDR4 memory, PCIe® 3.0, and NVMe technologies available, as well as the first native USB 3.1 Gen2 support on a chipset. With processor-direct SATA and USB connectivity, configurable for real-world flexibility, the AM4 platform takes advantage of the leading-edge features of today, and tomorrow.^"

This statement:

"So they have kept their word so far and launching the B550."

They made this commitment in 2016 speaking about the boards being released then. I would sure hope that a still unavailable B550 board would support the upcoming chip. 

This must be the most ill informed statement I have ever seen in regard to the history of AMD sockets.

"Don't forget you can always go back and buy another cpu that gets a new socket on the board EVERY TIME the next gen cpu comes out 

ps: That has been known for quite some time where have you been?"

AMD has a long history of supporting multiple generations of CPUs on the same socket so where have you been? Me I have been building AMD systems since they made 8086 chips back in 1979. So that is where I have been. 

In recent years AM2, AM2+, AM3 and AM3+ all supported multiple generations. Many AM2 boards even work with up to Phenom II processors, Heck AM3+ supported 6 generations not counting refreshes, of CPU's.

So no with AMD you have not NEEDED a NEW BOARD EVERY TIME, in fact extremely far from it. 

[deksman2]

AMD's explanation for 'too small ROM chip' doesn't hold ground.

Why?

Because X570 mobos also come with 16MB sized ROM (like most B350/X370, B450/X470).

Here's a detailed table comparing specs (and ROM chip sizes) between motherboards:

X570/X470/X370/B450/B350/A320 Motherboards (AM4-socket for AMD Ryzen CPUs) Comparison - Google Sheet... 

As you can see, plenty of B350/X370 and B450/X470 mobos come with both 16MB and 32MB ROM chips, and there are at least 3 X570 mobos that have 16MB ROM chips.

I sincerely doubt that microcode updates would require ridiculous amount of MB even on 16MB ROM chips.

For example, my Acer Helios 500 PH517-61 (Ryzen 2700 and Vega56) comes with a 16MB ROM chip on B450 mobo modified for a laptop, and the ROM chip is only filled to 47% of its capacity... however, Acer dropped support for this unit early on so I never got Zen 2 BIOS update (despite the fact that Acer UEFI bios UI is DOS style - fairly graphically primitive, but you don't need fancy graphics to showcase various options in the BIOS anyway) and the CPU (Ryzen 2700) is socketed (plus the cooling in this unit is really amazing... keeps both the CPU and GPU under maxed out load really cool and fans are quiet - no other laptop on the market approaches it in regards to cooling capacity).

A similar issue happened before Zen 2 shipped out.

Mobo OEM's were the ones who made an error and gave most mobos 16MB ROM chips... however, they discovered that by reducing the UEFI graphics, they could easily integrate Zen 2 microcode into the ROM.

Similarly, if they dropped BIOS UEFI to most basic graphical representation, they could probably put Zen 3 microcode into 16MB ROM chips as well.

But as it should be known by now, various B350 and X370 mobos received Zen 2 microcode updates from OEM's and users of those mobos are rocking Zen 2 CPU's easily without any performance or thermal issues.

I hope this preliminary report turns out wrong and AMD comes around, as it really makes no sense to force desktop users to upgrade their motherboards with Zen 3 (which is the last Zen iteration on AM4).

Basically, those who purchase B550 and X570 will be buying into 'end of life of AM4'.

Granted, Intel has been playing its customers for over a decade by effectively having them change motherboards with every new CPU generation... so AMD users have been very fortunate until now.

[pokester]

Very good points! To save space you could even limit some features that most would not need to. They could find a way to easily support as much of the new lineup as possible and we all would realize there are some processors and boards this is not possible, but certainly far from the majority. 

[pokester]

I would add something else I just thought of and why this is again a really bad decision for AMD. If Intel chooses to match AMD head on with CPU pricing this coming generation then AMD may give back some of that market share they took from Intel and here is why. AMD really doesn't have the future proof board on AM4 anymore, they blew that. Those going to Zen3 have to either buy a X570 if they don't have one, a B550 or future 6xx board. But they will only get one generation out of that board. While to buy the new gen of the Intel chip you also need a new board, they have promised to support the next gen on the same board. So for new purchasers Intel could very well end up being the cheaper choice. How's that for a role reversal!

[black_zion]

Either way neither AMD nor Intel has a future proof board since DDR5 and USB4 will definitely require new engineering, so it looks like 2022 for both camps for new sockets required on all fronts. Intel's behind the eight ball, but they're still going to be more expensive than AMD, both because they're more expensive to manufacture, but also because Intel cares more about profit per unit whereas AMD, which is climbing back from a record low user share still, is willing to take a lower profit margin. According to Mindfactory, and cited by SegmentNext, https://segmentnext.com/2019/04/11/ryzen-intel-again-outsell/

So AMD sold almost double the volume of Intel, yet only amounted to 4% more revenue, so Intel is not likely to change their pricing structure much.

As far as enthusiasts, as well as people who like to go long on any major investment, go, they have little reason to upgrade considering the massive performance improvements on the horizon. For mainstream users, the old stock 400 series chipset boards and 2000 series CPUs are still massive sellers, and the 3000 series will soon get the axe as well. This doesn't even take into account the used market, which of course doesn't contribute any to AMD's bottom line.

Personally I think neither the AMD 4000 series nor the Intel counterparts will make much of a wave simply because of the new motherboards which are required, and the performance of existing components which is more than sufficient to feed next generation GPUs. Also you have to throw into the mix new consoles releasing later this year which may carry price tags of $500 or more.

[pokester]

"Either way neither AMD nor Intel has a future proof board since DDR5 and USB4 will definitely require new engineering, so it looks like 2022 for both camps for new sockets required on all fronts."

While this is accurate for 2022 aside from IMHO the Intel is at least accurate on being future proof in 2020 for their refresh in 2021. So buy a board for the upcoming chip and you will be able to put the refresh chip on it too in 2021.

Buy and AMD board now and only be able to support Ryzen 4xxx aka Zen 3. 

So there is still truth in Intel's claim, AMD is still calling it future proof yet will not support future processors. 

"So AMD sold almost double the volume of Intel, yet only amounted to 4% more revenue, so Intel is not likely to change their pricing structure much."

I agree. I hope however they do get more competitive. However you look at the money Apple makes with less than 10% share. It wouldn't matter if a company had 100% share if they didn't make profit. 

I just hate that AMD is making the choice to lose the sale on so many upgrade processors that would have netted big bucks. 

I know I won't even entertain a new board now until DDR5 is out.

About the only purchase I can see making CPU wise, might be an R9 for my B450 board in a year or two. Likely that would be second hand and only if the board holds up. 

I just hate that I made the choice of board and processor I did as my plan was to use the r5 3600 then get a top end R7 4xxx for it when it came out. 

I can't reiterate enough that AMD should have never even made claims about future proof boards unless they planned to honor it, or at least give some rebate because we now have to get a new board to move forward.

I truly believe a lot of users bought b450 boards believing the statement and had they known would have just bought x570 boards. Why B550 is so late to the party is still a mystery too.  

[deksman2]

To be fair, Zen 3 was always been known to be the LAST Zen iteration on AM4.

We knew this much for a few years now based on AMD's release schedules, etc.

So, there's nothing new about that.

Furthermore, Intel's upcoming CPU's being backwards compatible will depend on a few things... such as memory support.

I strongly doubt their next CPU release will include DDR5 support (because that requires a RAM socket change and pin layout change).

AMD said they don't plan on introducing DDR5 until 2021... which means, Zen 4 will be coming on a NEW motherboard which supports Zen 4 and DDR5... this new mobo will probably have a similar life expectancy as AM4 (longer term support on Zen CPU's such as Zen 4 and Zen 5 - at least until RAM standards change again to say DDR6).

However, given that AMD also doesn't have official support for Zen 2 on that slide for the B350/X370 mobos, we know OEM's still integrated Zen 2 support into those mobos anyway.

So it might end up being the same with Zen 3 - they may have to take out Athlons and some Zen 1 CPU's from the equation though, but that wouldn't be too bad because by now, most people might have moved away from Zen 1, and if they hadn't, they soon would upgrade to at least Zen + or Zen 2 (2600 or 3600 most likely... which would probably give them a CPU which is still supported by the BIOS and upgrade it to include Zen 3).

This AMD's move is no indication that this is how things will be from this point on.

Even when they had 50% market share, AMD still pushed for same socket support and greater modularity than Intel.

So, we have (as of yet) no reason to think AMD will be insisting on changing mobos with every new CPU generation - in fact it seems unlikely.

[pokester]

To be fair, Zen 3 was always been known to be the LAST Zen iteration on AM4.

We knew this much for a few years now based on AMD's release schedules, etc.

So, there's nothing new about that.

I know I even posted the slide above showing that fact. 

Did I say it wasn't?

Furthermore, Intel's upcoming CPU's being backwards compatible will depend on a few things... such as memory support.

I strongly doubt their next CPU release will include DDR5 support (because that requires a RAM socket change and pin layout change).

Intel says their next Gen Board will work with the next 2 Gen CPU's. I never said Intel's would be DDR5, in fact I said DDR4.

AMD said they don't plan on introducing DDR5 until 2021... which means, Zen 4 will be coming on a NEW motherboard which supports Zen 4 and DDR5... this new mobo will probably have a similar life expectancy as AM4 (longer term support on Zen CPU's such as Zen 4 and Zen 5 - at least until RAM standards change again to say DDR6).

I don't doubt this and made no comment on the matter at all.

However, given that AMD also doesn't have official support for Zen 2 on that slide for the B350/X370 mobos, we know OEM's still integrated Zen 2 support into those mobos anyway.

In fact most do. That is the point of pointing out the inaccuracy of the information and how it has changed since 2016.

The slide I referenced does list support on x370 and B350 for Zen2, it states selective bios update needed. 

So it might end up being the same with Zen 3 - they may have to take out Athlons and some Zen 1 CPU's from the equation though, but that wouldn't be too bad because by now, most people might have moved away from Zen 1, and if they hadn't, they soon would upgrade to at least Zen + or Zen 2 (2600 or 3600 most likely... which would probably give them a CPU which is still supported by the BIOS and upgrade it to include Zen 3).

Yes they should and I believe they could. AMD however has said they won't. Did you read their statement? I sure hope this ends up happening.

This AMD's move is no indication that this is how things will be from this point on.

Even when they had 50% market share, AMD still pushed for same socket support and greater modularity than Intel.

So, we have (as of yet) no reason to think AMD will be insisting on changing mobos with every new CPU generation - in fact it seems unlikely.

I made no prediction that future AMD sockets would not support more than one gen of CPU at all. If I was to guess if they would I would say yes. As historically AMD has done great with this. 

[hardcoregames_]

People here probably remember me squeaking over backwards compatibility. I have been aware that Ryzen 4000 will be available for my X570 but at the end of the day my existing R5 3600 is not hurting.

If anything I was hoping for a better graphics card.

[erroneus]

This is highly disappointing AMD and with moves like this, we might as well go with Intel next time. I got an high-end X470 board, which easily can run zen 3 cpu's and that I bought because it was promised to get support for Zen 3. I will not be buying a new motherboard to get a Zen 3 CPU and that seems to be the general take. So with this move you are going to sell lots less Zen 3 CPU's, as it would make much more sense for people to use the money on a better GPU, then a new motherboard.

You might be on top again, but if you think people will not leave you, when you start screwing them over, you underestimate your customers and Intel.

[black_zion]

HardwareUnboxed (a reputable source) also asked more questions directly to AMD for clarification, and these are the responses he got:

• No official support of Ryzen 4000 series chips on 300 and 400 series boards.
• AMD will NOT provide necessary code to the OEMs (MSI, ASUS, etc...) to implement Ryzen 4000 series support on 300 and 400 series boards.
• Without this support, OEMs will be UNABLE to add support for 300 and 400 series boards.
• All 300 and 400 chipset boards will be unable to support Ryzen 4000 series chips no matter if the OEMs want to or not.

The first 5 minutes of the video below talks about this. So this is how it stands right now, so unless there is a major backlash against AMD like there was with the 3000 series situation, it's not going to change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av2hUxKypkE

[sol]

First I want to say to everyone from AMD: you guys did an amazing job and earned a lot of respect and love among enthusiasts and users including me. Hope at least some of you will read this.

Now to business. We have: 

1. In this interview (18:30) James Prior said both "Until 2020" and "Through 2020" 

2. Yes, a socket and a chipset are different things 

3. Yes, 16mb bios flash memory limitations seems to be kinda real.

So yeah, technically you (AMD) may flip this thing as you wish and formally maybe stay in a somewhat rightful position.

Still, no one's gonna believe you didn't know what users really mean asking about socket longevity. Actually James said himself "... beautiful dropping compatibility with just a bios flash". Right after "through 2020" phrase. 

Also no one is gonna believe that engineers who were capable of constructing such a ridiculously complex piece of art as Rome can't solve a bios flash memory problem. Especially taking into account 32mb bios flash on MSI max, for example. 

Ofc i understand only a part of complications you r dealing with as a company - shareholders, glofo, mobo guys etc. There is a lot of pressure, i understand. 

But what's happening right now really may escalate and escalate quickly up to the point where it will be a PR wildfire killing all that hard earned respect and trust i mentioned in the beginning. It will destroy your image of a very rare consumer-oriented trustful corporation and close this brilliant long term healthy marketing strategy for you forever. And all these are about to happen right before Zen3 launch. 

So i'm asking you just to think about it for one more minute, cuz it's not about socket, it's about how people are gonna perceive you from now on:

Whatever you'll gain by ditching most of AM4 support right now - is it worth loosing that all?

Best regards, your friendly feedbacker.

3700x

5700xt

x570

[erroneus]

Well one thing is for sure, I'm done recommending AMD to friends and acquaintances, where upgrade path is important, because right now you can't buy an AMD product that has any upgrade path and even if you could, can you trust them again? AMD don't make promises when you are the underdog, and then break those promises and trust, when things are going well. I'm going to straight up warn people now, when talking PC builds, that if they choose AMD, they have no upgrade path, which I already know now, will not go down well with lots of people.

And yeah the whole reasoning with ROM size, is straight up a blatant lie, which is another violation of trust. Multiple motherboard manufacturers has advertised with zen3 support on their AM4 motherboards, because there is no reason not too, as there is no technical hindrance, other then the fake ones you create AMD.

I hope you realize and reconsider how huge a mistake you are making right now. Not only regarding consumer trust, but also this will have an impact on sales of Zen 3 and other AMD products.

[boyfromhell]

That's outrageous!!!!! Why do I have to buy motherboard from 500 series to be able to run Zen 3?!
400 series and 500 series have still the same AM4 socket.
That's pointless to buy motherboard from 500 series now because of the Zen 4 that will be on the new AM5 socket (600 series, right?). Zen 4 will be much more powerful. If there eventually will be no support, I won't even look at Zen 3.
Instead I will buy AM5 motherboard and rock Zen 4. It's just like having Intel motherboards and CPUs. If you want a new generation CPU, you will have to buy new motherboard. That's really hurting me as the consumer, because If I want to get new CPU, I will have to buy new motherboard. I've already bought B450 Gaming Plus MAX. So what now? Now AMD says, no no no, If you want Zen 3, you buy 500 series or bye bye. I'm not a wealthy person. I can upgrade my PC only once in couple of years.
I hope AMD will change their mind. The reason (maybe there are more reasons) why you can't give the support is the ROM size. Well, I bought the motherboard from MAX series to get rid of this problem and now I'm a little bit triggered.
The reason why I bought AMD is the AM4 support. Please AMD, it's the last AM4 CPU and I'm sure, it will be very powerful. Give the 300 series and 400 series support.

[varkon]

Same here. Bought the B450M MORTAR MAX precisely for the reason that it's BIOS was large enough to accommodate future products. So it pains me (both mentally and in my wallet) to see such a blatant discrepancy in AMD's otherwise great line of products.

I sincerely hope that AMD will take into account user feedback, and adjust course on this one.

[pjw3bst3r]

I purchased an Asus CH7 X470 board for my 3700X in full expectation that I would be able to upgrade to Zen 3, I could have purchased an X570 board but I didn't need PCIE4 and mostly I didn't want an active chipset fan as I build my rigs for silence.

I was led to believe by AMD's promises regarding support through 2020 that my X470 board would support Zen 3, as we knew the chips were going to be released within that period. We also knew that Zen 4 would be released in 2021 most likely with DDR5 support, a new chipset and potentially a new socket. It therefore made sense that Zen 3 would be the last in the line to be supported by the current boards, this fitted in nicely with the 2020 promise.

The lack of BIOS capacity needed for support of Zen 3 is obviously a non-issue given that Gigabytes entire line-up of X570 boards only have 16Mb BIOS ROMs. A workaround for any potential issues is bound to be possible, especially for the many earlier generation boards like mine that have 32Mb BIOS ROMs.

I was really happy to be able to switch back to AMD after they finally became relevant again in the CPU sector, especially as they appeared to take customer loyalty seriously with their promises of long-term platform life with AM4. This was such a marked difference to Intel who provided no upgradeability to their systems despite no meaningful changes to CPU design.

The only logical reason behind this move is that AMD are wanting to maximise profits with the release of Zen 3. With the new chips it is likely Intel will be made irrelevant, and everyone wanting to switch or upgrade (the entire PC enthusiast sector) will now have to buy a new board.

This just seems like the type of cynical manipulative move that we have come to expect from Intel & Nvidia and I am really disappointed that AMD have proved themselves to be no better than the competition in this regard. Unfortunately it seems customer loyalty will always loose out to cold hard cash at the end of the day.

[hardcoregames_]

I have a MSI X470 Gaming Plus and due to the smaller 128 Mb BIOS there are some problems with it. The cost of 256 Mb BIOS chips is more than double the cost of 128 Mb. Now MSI has the MAX lineup with B450 and X470 with 256 Mb BIOS but that does not help my old board one bit.

I have a MSI X570-A PRO and AFAIK I can run most processors on it now that AGESA 1.0.0.4 supports everything. More recently I install 1.0.0.5 which fixes a lot of known issues. I am not sure when 1.0.0.6 will be released but the imminent release of Ryzen 4000 series suggests it will be soon.

[colesdav]

Here is the explanation apparently:
Ryzen 3 Launch — No Zen 3 on 300/400 — RTX 40 "Hopper" 5nm — Intel 12th Gen LGA 1700 — RTS 05-08-20 ... 

[pokester]

Notice that the guy from AMD they quote even said they could have supported some of the new processors and are just choosing not to. He asked that his name not be revealed.

[colesdav]

Yes I noticed that.

Glad you watched the video.

Tech Deals have been critical of some AMD GPUs in past reviews.

They seem to agree with the decision not to allow BIOS support for new AMD CPU on X470 motherboards just because of the confusion it would cause amongst consumers.

My Momma always said buying an AMD Motherboard or AMD GPU was like a box of chocolates. 
You never know what you gonna get.
Forrest Gump - "Life is like a box of chocolate" - YouTube 
 

[pokester]

Frankly it is still confusing. The fact that it is still on AM4 creates that confusion. If they were going to choose to not support boards that could support it, then they should make all current board owners buy new boards and call it AM4+.  They say they want to avoid confusion then go with a path that frankly will still be confusing to the base they believe would not understand. 

[black_zion]

The problem there is the X570/B550 which are Socket AM4 and have Zen 3 support which prevents that. One solution would be to limit Zen 3 to a new socket, AM4+, with a brand new chipset series, the X670/B650, which would handle two generations of chips, the Ryzen 4000 and Ryzen 5000 series, the way Intel is doing so when they come out with Zen 5 in 2022, DDR5, USB4, and PCIe 5 would be more mature, more devices on the market, and would also give time for them to be finalized if there was a delay.

The other solution, of course, is for AMD to stop being obtuse and release the required code to the OEMs so the blame could be shifted to the OEMs if they do not implement that support.

[hardcoregames_]

AMD could easily simplify things with backwards and forwards compatibility. It is not hard to do.

[pokester]

Several of the reputable hardware sites have now come out and said that AMD is blatantly choosing not to support Zen3 and that B450 and B470 boards absolutely could support it. 

[sol]

Yepp, serious tension is building up. It's only a beginning. AMD's putting Zen 3 sales at risk and i can't understand why. Permanent PR damage is a bad trade-off for a short-term money. 

[pokester]

I found an interesting take on why AMD really made this choice. This was brought up by "notanapplefan" on his youtube channel. 

x370 and x470 and their B variants are not made by AMD. AMD makes the x570 and upcoming b550. So they make make a cut of the money on all those boards sold. 

I have now seen 5 different reputable tech sites saying that this is crap. AMD most certainly could support Zen3 on B450 and X470 board, even at 16mb bios size. They just don't want to. 

[black_zion]

True AMD makes the 570 and 550 chipsets, but they're also pretty meh, having to be actively cooled which, while blamed on PCIe 4, is probably not the reason considering it doesn't draw that much power, which is why there have been reports since the end of last year that AMD would again turn to an outside company to design the 670/650 chipsets which would debut with the Ryzen 4000 series, so I feel the chipset manufacturer angle is pretty bunk.

https://wccftech.com/amd-x670-upcoming-am4-chipset-to-be-produced-by-third-party/

[black_zion]

I find Techspot's hypothesis much more realistic.

https://www.techspot.com/news/85180-amd-axes-zen-3-support-400-series-motherboards.html

[pokester]

I actually posted a link that for whatever reason was not approved and is now gone of the video on youtube from hardwareunboxed pretty much with the same opinion, but also with the opinion it most certainly could and should be done. 

[pokester]

Okay it finally got approved. 

https://community.amd.com/thread/252800 

[colesdav]

RE: This was brought up by "notanapplefan" on his youtube channel.

I wouldn't worry about that - he will change his mind in like 2 days for the next video.

[pokester]

He definitely goes off the deep end with his rants.

[colesdav]

I cannot even be bothered watching it.
Utter waste of time.

In BASIC:

10 PRINT "Rumour"
20 PRINT "Rant"
30 PRINT "Rethink"
40 PRINT "Change my mind"
50 PRINT "I Apologise"
60 GOTO 10

[black_zion]

Here's some interesting news. It seems, according to Matthew Unangst, director of AMD Commercial Client Business, that they are "aggressively incentivizing" channel partners to sell Ryzen Pro processors. If the incentives include heavy discounts, then I think we know the real reason behind AMD's really daft move of breaking Socket AM4 into two, they need the desktop income to offset the mobile losses. There's a transcript of the interview in the link at the bottom.

https://www.crn.com/slide-shows/components-peripherals/amd-is-aggressively-incentivizing-partners-to-sell-ryzen-pro/1

[colesdav]

I am looking for a new Laptop for first time in years.

I do not think the AMD 4000 series mobile notebooks will do that well because of bad previous history on quality, and switchable graphics failure.
Radeon Mobile GPU are weak.
No Thunderbolt 3 support.

I have already posted this: https://community.amd.com/message/2968674?commentID=2968674 
Which explains my thoughts on the situation.

[black_zion]

Price though. At B&H the lowest priced laptop with a Thunderbolt 3 port and an 8 core processor is $1800. Granted it's spec'd very nicely for $1800, it's still $1800...