General Discussions

[kingfish]

MD unveiled its new Radeon RX 5700 line of graphics cards with 7nm chips at E3 last month, and with just days to go before they launch on July 7th, the company has announced new pricing. In the "spirit" of competition that it says is "heating up" in the graphics market -- specifically NVIDIA's "Super" new RTX cards -- all three versions of the graphics card will be cheaper than we thought.

The standard Radeon RX 5700 with 36 compute units and speeds of up to 1.7GHz was originally announced at $379, but will instead hit shelves at $349 -- the same price as NVIDIA's RTX 2060. The 5700 XT card that brings 40 compute units and up to 1.9GHz speed will be $50 cheaper than expected, launching at $399. The same goes for the 50th Anniversary with a slightly higher boost speed and stylish gold trim that will cost $449 instead of $499.

That's enough to keep them both cheaper than the $499 RTX 2070 Super -- we'll have to wait for the performance reviews to find out if it's enough to make sure they're still relevant.

AMD fires back at 'Super' NVIDIA with Radeon RX 5700 price cuts 

[pokester]

Your explanation of what you went through to get the driver installed sounds like the same nightmare another OP in another thread is going through. 

I think I will cut and paste your comment in that thread and see if it helps them in any way. 

[colesdav]

OK no problem - I fixed the typos - I keep getting locked out from edit after posting.
I will file yet another bug report about the install issues I describe above.

Needless to say Nvidia drivers install fine on the same machine and build of Windows aftter DDU to remove all previous drivers, and swapping in an Nvidia GPU.

Bye.

[pokester]

A tip on the edits, if you click on the thread header at the top of the thread and then go to your post it will let you edit. I get the same thing and figured that out eventually. 

[colesdav]

Adrenalin 2020 20.8.1 is released:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-8-1 

Incremental install from running and working Adrenalin 2020 20.7.2 caused a blackscreened PC with no way out at all.
I could not get any video output.

I used 3 soft resets of Windows 10 64bit Pro (19.09) to boot into safe mode. 
DDUed the AMD Drivers and installed as described above.

I cant wait to see what  the "Halo product" experience will be like.

[pokester]

So are you saying the new driver installs just fine then?

[black_zion]

Thought I'd post this here. It seems as if nVidia has discontinued the entirety of the RTX product stack now with the 2070 Super getting the axe, which makes September 17th's for Ampere's rumored hard launch date much more realistic. This is extra bad news since by all indications AMD won't be releasing reference versions until December by which time nVidia will have soaked up enough early adopter upcharge to counter pretty much anything AMD has in mind as far as pricing goes...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/is-nvidia-already-discontinuing-the-rtx-2070-super

[pokester]

I think both companies got stuck with too much stock after the mining boom. I don't think any of them ever want that again. So they likely may be better off financially to potentially starve the market if need be, to not have them sitting around after the launch of 3xxx. Heck I still see 1080 and 1080 ti's they are trying to sell at retail stores and not much of a discount. 

[pokester]

Wow had I read the link I would have seen it said pretty much said what I did. Yay me for being spot on, and dumb me for waisting my time, LOL. 

[black_zion]

Plus don't forget nVidia had to buy back a boatload of GPUs from their AIBs because of the mining crash so they're no doubt extra cautious about repeating that mistake.

This time around I don't think it would be AS bad to have a lingering glut of Turing cards on the market since the RTX series supports ray tracing and DLSS 2.0, both things the GTX 1080 Ti is not capable of, and the 2060/70/80 Super cards are all very capable cards in their own right which perform the same as their AMD counterparts and could be priced directly against them until the glut is cleared, so there wouldn't be, like the last generation, the "Why the H would I buy a 1080Ti when I can get a much more capable 2070 Super for around $500?"

The real thing about Ampere is it's no doubt going to be priced even above where Turing is now due to lack of competition, so having extra Turing cards on the market fills a gap which will be maintained until RDNA2 lands...Everyone loses except nVidia's bank account.

[hardcoregames_]

I track digital coins and tend to buy video cards on the dips

I like it when ex-mining cards come with the original box with matching serial numbers, makes RMA trivial for cards still under warranty

RTX cards when they launched were very expensive, but I got a deal last year when a miner divested of 6 cards in favor of the new SUPER cards.

Lucky me to be a RTX 2080 for chump change. Been excellent for games. I have all the gimmicks but 2 games I own that can even scratch the surface of them. Metro Exodus and Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

[colesdav]

2070 Supers have been selling at he same price as Sapphire RX5700XT Nitro + and  PowerColor Red Dragon recently.  That's almost an RTX2080 for ~ 450.

[hardcoregames_]

The EVGA RTX 2080 Black Edition is a bit more powerful. It depends on the game obviously which are all over the dial.

RTX 2080 is TU104, the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070 including the SUPER variants are TU106. So I have more CU than the more affordable cards.

RTX 2 080 Ti is expensive as it is TU102.

[hardcoregames_]

The Turing Trio: TU102, TU104, & TU106 - The NVIDIA Turing GPU Architecture Deep Dive: Prelude to Ge... 

[colesdav]

RE: the RTX 2060 and RTX 2070 including the SUPER variants are TU106.

The RTX2070 Super is TU104, like the RTX2080.

The:
RTX2060
RTX2060 Super
RTX 2070

are TU106.

[hardcoregames_]

EVGA has some unusual board models so a user needs to look close

All I care is that my RTX 2080 works and play games at 3840x2160 easily

I installed a new BIOS so I am hoping the machine will be more stable looking forward

[black_zion]

I haven't seen any 2070 Super cards under the $500 mark, most are still north of $550, but with the market the way it is I would expect some retailers are putting them on sale to get rid of them as not to be either stuck with them or have to take a large bath on them come September. AMD's really up S creek until, at the very least, Navi Refresh lands, and especially not until RDNA3 which, if rumors come to be true, will be a chiplet based GPU...

[hardcoregames_]

chiplet designs are already being working on and most likely they will be common in the not so distant future

the reason is that yields for larger chunks of silicon thr TSMC N7 line go down hill fast as the device gets larger

I can see the TSMC line for N5 which Apple is making their A14 SoC which is not that complex as a video card but Apple needs north of 200 million of them for phones and ipads over the next 12 months.

[pokester]

I have not either, however I have the Zotac model which sells for 500, and it is no RGB but is rock solid. In fact it clocks much higher than any of the pricier cards pre-overclocks. I bought my right after launch and mine was either a demo or a return as I got it on an open box deal for 440. 

I really think the 2070 super is just flat out the best card for money if you are willing to purchase in the 500 range. I have no issues with any game not hitting 60fps at 4K that I own. I hope the next gen has it's equivalent priced card that performs at a similar level for its generation. 

[black_zion]

I just wish AMD would start providing competition again instead of price matching so the consumer would start winning again...

[hardcoregames_]

black_zion wrote:

I just wish AMD would start providing competition again instead of price matching so the consumer would start winning again...

AMD has done well with the CPU and chipset. I am patient, my current RTX 2080 is not stressed out just yet.

I agree that AMD could do better on the graphics but my old RX 480 never let me down. I played games galore on that card at 3840x2160 and it never overheated or thermal throttled.

Drivers and BIOS headaches have finally given way to stability. Far fewer complaints on the forum lately.

[pokester]

I agree but to compete you have to have parity and AMD still does not. Not in hardware features and at the top tier level has zero competition. Not trying to beat a dead horse by keep saying this but the drivers don't have parity either. Now I know many would point out the things that they only have or that both teams have, however so many of those features don't work right. Work on one card vs another or don't work at 140 hz but at 60 fps it works. FreeSync works perfect on the green team cards so does their live streaming. Other than HDR issues and that is all Microsoft issues, all my Green functions just work. 

So yes I would love to see real competition and at that point to win back what they have lost in the last 3 years in consumer faith will IMHO not only need parity but for them to truly have the better product. Here's to hoping Big Navi surprises us all with great hardware, better features and drivers that work. 

[black_zion]

Especially if these insane hardware prices are to be the new normal, it won't matter if "Big Navi" thrashes Ampere by 25%, if the software side is junk, they're not going to attract back the people they lost, and are going to continue to alienate users.

The software side is the easiest of the two to fix, yet AMD has only gone backwards in the last year, and not having an answer for nVidia's features, namely DLSS, is going to hurt them sooner rather than later, since if the job posting from Nintendo, who uses nVidia chips, leads where people think it's going to lead, DLSS is going to be an integral feature on the Switch's successor. If Nintendo is able to do, via DLSS, something Microsoft and Sony cannot, 60fps stable without dynamic resolution, then they're going to look at nVidia for their next model, possibly with a dedicated CPU and GPU instead of an APU, or even something ARM based if nVidia wins the bid for ARM...

[hardcoregames_]

NVIDIA spend a lot of pesos to develop DLSS which was done with high performance machines using the A100 logic

[colesdav]

RE: Especially if these insane hardware prices are to be the new normal.

Turing RTX2080 and 2080Ti prices are too high and have been since launch. No competition from AMD at all.

I was really lucky and got good game deals and discounts on the RTX2080s I purchased but even then they were expensive.

As for RX5700XT - well the prices on those have been far too high for an RX690, which is what it is especially since they didn't have working stable drivers for about 8 months on Windows 10, things are still not completely fixed after a year and some AIB cards were bad construction.

Even if AMD do manage to make "Big Navi" a "Halo" GPU, it has "Horn" Adrenalin 2020 GUI/UI and Drivers.
Seriously who was responsible for this mess which is using 7-14% of a Ryzen 2700X CPU (that's ~ 1 core 2 threads with all the preferences stuff turned off - shown on in this case):

None of the install issues are fixed.
Incremental update from working Adrenalin 2020 20.7.2 to Adrenalin 2020 20.8.1 blackscreened and froze my PC.
Microsoft update still installs ancient AMD Drivers.
I still need to use DDU.

For some reason I also need to use Factory Reset two pass install after DDU.
I also need to remove the GPU HDMI connection during install phase otherwise the PC is blackscreened and bricked.

Sick of it.

[colesdav]

I would just like to say that I am not the only person seeing very high CPU use for Adrenalin 2020 20.7.2 / 20.8.1.
Other users have reported seeing this problem on Reddit.

[black_zion]

Does say a lot when the GeForce Experience is much more involved...

[hardcoregames_]

I do not use the GeForce Experience. 

[colesdav]

You should try it if you need to record games or get optimized game settings or use Ansel or if you want to you can even use the "Radeon Image Sharpening" filter.

[pokester]

I second using GeForce Experience for the filters and game presets. I love the filters in some games. I only wish GE supported more older games. I however will still apply some extra sharpening and AA from the old NV control panel. I will also often apply some effects from re-shade. You can make some 6-10 year old games, look darn good. 

[hardcoregames_]

colesdav wrote:

You should try it if you need to record games or get optimized game settings or use Ansel or if you want to you can even use the "Radeon Image Sharpening" filter.

I have looker over everybody's offerings and nothing seems to be better than the game defaults.

Halo: MCC has a theater mode that plays back segments of gameplay. This makes it possible to record it and ignore the gameplay while recording. This was eye opening for debug purposes too.

[pokester]

Well that is a matter of personal preferences. I play the MCC too and even though the graphics have been improved for the PC version I find applying the extra sharpening absolutely looks better on my 4K 65" screen. I would likely not notice much of a difference though at 1440p on my 32" monitor. 

And obviously every game will respond to additional settings in different ways. So making a blanket statement that all offerings make no improvement over game defaults. Seems like an impossible statement as some older games didn't even offer anti-aliasing or the same levels of anistropic filtering for instance and those can be applied now from the driver software. Again though you are entitled to like and do as you please. I for one will enjoy having the option and appreciate having GE having presets and then adjusting from there to my own taste. 

[hardcoregames_]

I use a 4K monitor on my PC. While it is 27" it is still a good image when the game fully supports it.

Not many games out there that are designed for 4K, but Halo is intended for that resolution

[black_zion]

More confirmed information about nVidia's Ampere, this time it's VRAM and memory bus widths, and seems they took a certain AMD employee's spheal about VRAM size to heart.

AMD needs to start letting something about RDNA2 slip, something actually confirmed, because what's coming out now is along the lines of "RNDA2 may not be as powerful as expected"...

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-nvidia-ampere-graphics-cards-partial-specs-and-tentative-launch-schedule/

[colesdav]

I thought Nvidia were going to introduce their own version of "HBCC" and use DRAM like Vega 64/56 rather than going for very large amounts of VRAM > 16GB. 

[black_zion]

If AMD's little foray into using 4/8GB HBM/2 has shown us anything, it's that size that's paramount. Plus if Ampere's computational prowess is to be believed, those large frame buffers are going to be required no matter how intelligent the memory management techniques. Also this positions the 16GB and above cards as much better set for the future at a relatively minimal cost, since these insane GPU prices may become the "new normal", and nVidia may be looking for a much longer end user refresh cycle of 4-6 years because of this.

[pokester]

I think Nvidia being stingy on the ram has hopefully run it's course. It is about the only thing I have to complain about with my RTX 2060 is the 6gb. Even though it is a bottom tier card I still have not found a game it can not push beyond 60fps at 1440p. Doom Eternal was my first title that I felt how bad nvidias choice to not have 8gb impacted a game. While it still looks great I had to limit the textures to high as all other settings were on ultra. Just because I didn't have enough memory. So maybe they are learning this lesson and the fact that 2 more GB or memory is well worth the small increase in cost. I do wonder if games will really push us to the need in the next few years for 20-24 gb of ram. I guess it certainly will if 8k gaming gains more prevalence. I would guess  the extra memory could aid in RTX, DLLS 2.0 and other emerging AA techniques. 

[black_zion]

I'm thinking the 20-24GB VRAM has more to do with computational workloads, especially if Ampere's computational prowess is to be believed.

[hardcoregames_]

black_zion wrote:

I'm thinking the 20-24GB VRAM has more to do with computational workloads, especially if Ampere's computational prowess is to be believed.

I have seen designs for RTX Quadro 8000 with 32GB of VRAM on them

[pokester]

That is a good thought. In the past 2 years we have seen red and green teams letting their pro drivers on the red team and the studio drivers on the green team be loaded on non-pro products. So that is a good thought and natural progression. 

[hardcoregames_]

pokester wrote:

That is a good thought. In the past 2 years we have seen red and green teams letting their pro drivers on the red team and the studio drivers on the green team be loaded on non-pro products. So that is a good thought and natural progression. 

those drivers never were restricted

gamers want updates more as games tend to be more problematic

when you work with blender all day, updates are not as important