Gaming Discussions

[os2wiz]

The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts.

[korinogaro]

So reviewers would not tear them apart? Because their GPUs are trash, with real MSRP of $750+, in comparison to 3080... No DLSS, generation behind in RT, no other RT features like voice etc.

[Anonymous]

I spent a lot of time rambling alone about in this forum, you can check my thread named, AMD Marketing VS Reality.

Also don't forget the $150 Walmart Bike rebranded and sold for the double of the price, $350 shipped from the AMD fan shop.

This was for me a huge red signal, along with AMD selling horribly binned cpu not reaching specs clocks at each major Ryzen launch.

AMD decided once again to sacrifice its brand, prestige, technological advances for the sake of its market shares.

[os2wiz]

  I am not concerned with DLSS and ray tracing since the vast majority of games still do not support them in any meaningful way. That is not the issue I raised . Nvidia did the same anti-consumer behavior. This expl

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@Anonymous wrote:

I spent a lot of time here rambling alone about in this form, you can check my thread named, AMD Marketing VS Reality.

Also don't forget the $150 Walmart Bike rebranded and sold for the double of the price, $350 shipped from the AMD fan shop.

This was for me a huge red signal, along with AMD selling horribly binned cpu not reaching specs clocks at each major Ryzen launch.

AMD decided once again to sacrifice its brand and prestige.

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oitation of people wo are struggling to survive in the pandemic world has to stop. 

[Packit]

Surprisingly (sic) AMD is keeping quiet about the whole debacle of this paper launch, both on the CPU and GPU aspect.  It did not take an augur to envision a high demand for these parts.  Playing the "surprise" demand card is an insult to our intelligence.

[os2wiz]

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@Packit wrote:

Surprisingly (sic) AMD is keeping quiet about the whole debacle of this paper launch, both on the CPU and GPU aspect.  It did not take an augur to envision a high demand for these parts.  Playing the "surprise" demand card is an insult to our intelligence.

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 What is also bad is that they did not get access to enough 7nm wafers from TSMC . Now they are stopping production of all reference cards sometime in January when they never attempted to provide a serious number of reference cards. The AIB partners are taking advantage of this malfeasance and incompetence by jacking up prices to $799 for almost all their offerings. They should have been from just over $650 to $750 for all but the most exotic cards. This was AMD's collusion with its partners to practice bait and switch tactics that were anti-competitive in nature. 

[korinogaro]

You attack AIBs but a lot points to AMD selling GPU kits for really high price to them. Powercolor's MSRP for red devil is $800 with 10% profit margin (lowest in years), Sapphire Nitro+ is $760, MSRP, also with 10% profit. It means AMD is selling kits for high price to AIBs.

[os2wiz]

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@korinogaro wrote:

You attack AIBs but a lot points to AMD selling GPU kits for really high price to them. Powercolor's MSRP for red devil is $800 with 10% profit margin (lowest in years), Sapphire Nitro+ is $760, MSRP, also with 10% profit. It means AMD is selling kits for high price to AIBs.

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You certainly are correct there but there is industry wide collusion on this matter as well as AMD turning their lion share of wafers to console production for SONY and Microsoft. That leaves inadequate wafers for cpu and gpu production. Lisa Su dropped the ball on this. If I was a fanboy for AMD . I am no longer one. Nvidia and AMD are just typically greedy and myopic capitalist corporations. I will be so glad after the revolution when the means of production nd the engineers and workers will be employed by the working class and not some capitalist enterprise. See plp.org

[pmc251]

"The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts."

I'm sorry but the amount of cognitive dissonance in this post is mind boggling.

The situation isn't great, but you're living in a complete fantasy world.

1) There is nothing illegal.

2) What class-action lawsuit?  Good god ... 

3) What you're suggesting is illegal - price fixing.

4) AMD and AIBs do not set the retail price of either reference or AIB model cards.  Again, if they did, that would be price fixing.  Retailers set the price.  

5) If AMD didn't provide chips to the AIBs, and just distributed cards themselves for the SRP, the AIBs would abandon them, and it'd be catastrophic.

6) It's largely up to AIBs what they decide to do with their chip allocation.  Whether to order a load of ref PCBs and coolers with them, or not very many at all and do everything non-ref.

[Anonymous]

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@pmc251 wrote:

"The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts."

I'm sorry but the amount of cognitive dissonance in this post is mind boggling.

The situation isn't great, but you're living in a complete fantasy world.

1) There is nothing illegal.

2) What class-action lawsuit?  Good god ... 

3) What you're suggesting is illegal - price fixing.

4) AMD and AIBs do not set the retail price of either reference or AIB model cards.  Again, if they did, that would be price fixing.  Retailers set the price.  

5) If AMD didn't provide chips to the AIBs, and just distributed cards themselves for the SRP, the AIBs would abandon them, and it'd be catastrophic.

6) It's largely up to AIBs what they decide to do with their chip allocation.  Whether to order a load of ref PCBs and coolers with them, or not very many at all and do everything non-ref.

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Reddit is your place, uneducated potato. 🙂

[pmc251]

You really have no idea how thick you or the OP are, do you?

His post, and your response are the absolute epitome of bottom feeding redditors.

You hear some words, they get jumbled around in the tiny gelid mass between your ears, and confusion and verbal diarrhoea come out of your mouths.

The 6 points I wrote are categorically true.  I'd love to see someone link to precedent where an OEM, in any industry, has successfully been prosecuted for *failing* to engage in illegal price fixing ... 

[os2wiz]

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@pmc251 wrote:

You really have no idea how thick you or the OP are, do you?

His post, and your response are the absolute epitome of bottom feeding redditors.

You hear some words, they get jumbled around in the tiny gelid mass between your ears, and confusion and verbal diarrhoea come out of your mouths.

The 6 points I wrote are categorically true.  I'd love to see someone link to precedent where an OEM, in any industry, has successfully been prosecuted for *failing* to engage in illegal price fixing ... 

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You are a very long winded and boring liar. You have yet to prove AMD and Nvidia have not engaged  in anti-competitive activity. Nowhere did I mention or imply that I proposed price fixing. Rather you are the one saying it ok to to engage in activity that leads to anti-competitive pricing by AMD and Nvidia. You have zero knowledge of  anti-trust law. I studied it in both history and economics classes at the university level. MY brother had a distinguished career as an economic consultant on international trade. I often picked his brains. 

[thelvyn]

None of these conspiracy theories are helpful, or logical.  Not having enough supply makes way more sense than any of these arguments.  Holding back to push up price makes no sense because of the stiff competition and the giant upside to having stock when the competition does not.  ie if AMD had rolled out with a ton of stock, a ton of people waiting for Nvidia would have jumped ship because they would be unwilling to wait and frustrated.

Restricted stock always messes with price, but restricting stock to get a few extra points of profit per card when you could sell double the cards doesn't make sense.

[os2wiz]

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@thelvyn wrote:

None of these conspiracy theories are helpful, or logical.  Not having enough supply makes way more sense than any of these arguments.  Holding back to push up price makes no sense because of the stiff competition and the giant upside to having stock when the competition does not.  ie if AMD had rolled out with a ton of stock, a ton of people waiting for Nvidia would have jumped ship because they would be unwilling to wait and frustrated.

Restricted stock always messes with price, but restricting stock to get a few extra points of profit per card when you could sell double the cards doesn't make sense.

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Another gross distortion. This is NOT a conspiracy theory merely a very common anti-consumer practice that is not prosecuted vigorously by the corrupt capitalist state.

[thelvyn]

1.  How is limiting quantity illegal?

2. What is the upside?

[Anonymous]

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@thelvyn wrote:

1.  How is limiting quantity illegal?

2. What is the upside?

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Google is your friend!
It's not like information and knowledge are hidden from you!

[hideouspenguinboy]

OMG he went full Flat Earther. Won't show you proof of his argument, but instead tells you the truth is out there. Yikes.

[banis]

Why do 10 years ago I just searched for best hardware and bought it, now it  is Yay  amd and nvidia both released superb hardware what we cant buy because MOHNEY reasons to pump AMD and Nvidia shares up for few Billions  and they will earn 100 much more $  than actual gpu sales...

[thelvyn]

It's hard to argue against nonsense.  Everyone lives in their own realities nowadays and it really seems like very few apply common sense to the reality before believing it.

[pmc251]

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@os2wiz wrote:

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@pmc251 wrote:

You really have no idea how thick you or the OP are, do you?

His post, and your response are the absolute epitome of bottom feeding redditors.

You hear some words, they get jumbled around in the tiny gelid mass between your ears, and confusion and verbal diarrhoea come out of your mouths.

The 6 points I wrote are categorically true.  I'd love to see someone link to precedent where an OEM, in any industry, has successfully been prosecuted for *failing* to engage in illegal price fixing ... 

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You are a very long winded and boring liar. You have yet to prove AMD and Nvidia have not engaged  in anti-competitive activity. Nowhere did I mention or imply that I proposed price fixing. Rather you are the one saying it ok to to engage in activity that leads to anti-competitive pricing by AMD and Nvidia. You have zero knowledge of  anti-trust law. I studied it in both history and economics classes at the university level. MY brother had a distinguished career as an economic consultant on international trade. I often picked his brains. 

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This is like trying to engage with a David Icke or Alex Jones juicer.

NO.  **YOU** have to prove what you're alleging.  1)   Explain what is illegal.  2)  What statute it falls under.  3)  How you're going to prosecute them ... because you're starting a class action lawsuit, right?  Right ...?

If you want to make someone laugh, go and pay for an hour of a competition lawyer's time, and run your theories and potential suit by them.  If they're honest, they won't be able to stop laughing.  If they're not honest, they'll string you along for every cent you have, then laugh.

[os2wiz]

Not only are you long winded and with twisted logic , but you are a falsifier. Nothing I suggested remotely resembles price fixing. And yes it is illegal for corporations too engage in anti-competitive practices. Please crawl up

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@pmc251 wrote:

"The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts."

I'm sorry but the amount of cognitive dissonance in this post is mind boggling.

The situation isn't great, but you're living in a complete fantasy world.

1) There is nothing illegal.

2) What class-action lawsuit?  Good god ... 

3) What you're suggesting is illegal - price fixing.

4) AMD and AIBs do not set the retail price of either reference or AIB model cards.  Again, if they did, that would be price fixing.  Retailers set the price.  

5) If AMD didn't provide chips to the AIBs, and just distributed cards themselves for the SRP, the AIBs would abandon them, and it'd be catastrophic.

6) It's largely up to AIBs what they decide to do with their chip allocation.  Whether to order a load of ref PCBs and coolers with them, or not very many at all and do everything non-ref.

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Reddit is your place, uneducated potato. 🙂

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another hole.

[pmc251]

You don't even understand your own words.  You also sound like a proselytizing baptist preacher. 

[deksman2]

[quote]The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts. [/quote]

First off, expecting any kind of availability at launch is not something that I would call 'thought through'.

Why?

Because launch dates will always be fraught with massive pre-orders and inability to satisfy demand in the existing system (which is not thought out well to begin with). I learned this a LONG time ago and therefore end up tempering my expectations with new technology and just wait a few months after the initial 'craze' is over and supplies stabilize - this is also usually when prices tend to go down to their MSRP levels or lower.

If you're impatient to get new technology ASAP, then you're basically setting yourself up for a downfall in the existing system.

Is AMD doing this intentionally? I don't think so. Same with NV. Its just that people end up too impatient at release dates and then get expectations crushed when too many people order the same thing.

Its the same for when thousands of people end up applying for the same job. There's only 1 job (of that specificity) and thousands of people. The system is essentially broken.

Orders should be done on-demand... select number of people apply to get new technology (such as say GPU's), this data is then fed back into the company and they know they have a set number of GPU's to produce... with molecular manufacturing which we had since 2015 and AI controlled atomic scale manufacturing (since 2018), this would be relatively easy to do - but current production methodologies don't allow for such flexibility or necessarily technology to be implemented because production is done through cost efficiency, not technical efficiency and use of best possible methods with minimal impact to the environment.

As for AIB partners not selling GPU's at their MSRP price level... take it up with the AIB partners... I don't think AMD has much say in this matter. Its the same with NV. AIB's essentially put on their own things onto the GPU and then charge a premium well BEYOND the MSRP for what they did (in this sense, if you want an MSRP priced GPU, you need to get the base version).

AMD and NV should probably be able to offer their own original versions of GPU's at MSRP levels... AIB partners produce 'sprouced up' card for which you end up paying more money. 

Similarly, AMD should probably produce its own laptops... as they are bound to create far better models than what majority of OEM's come up with when it comes to  cutting corners and overcharging for it.

[os2wiz]

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@deksman2 wrote:

[quote]The 6800 series reference cards have NOT been produced in quantity by AMD . They are universally unavailable. Not a demand issue but a conscious policy of AMD to force consumers to pay $800  to AIB partners for cards that should sell for only $650 to $750. They are playing the same illegal game as Nvidia. If you feel that I am correct contact me at imwechs@verizon.net so that we launch a class action law suit in federal courts. [/quote]

First off, expecting any kind of availability at launch is not something that I would call 'thought through'.

Why?

Because launch dates will always be fraught with massive pre-orders and inability to satisfy demand in the existing system (which is not thought out well to begin with). I learned this a LONG time ago and therefore end up tempering my expectations with new technology and just wait a few months after the initial 'craze' is over and supplies stabilize - this is also usually when prices tend to go down to their MSRP levels or lower.

If you're impatient to get new technology ASAP, then you're basically setting yourself up for a downfall in the existing system.

Is AMD doing this intentionally? I don't think so. Same with NV. Its just that people end up too impatient at release dates and then get expectations crushed when too many people order the same thing.

Its the same for when thousands of people end up applying for the same job. There's only 1 job (of that specificity) and thousands of people. The system is essentially broken.

Orders should be done on-demand... select number of people apply to get new technology (such as say GPU's), this data is then fed back into the company and they know they have a set number of GPU's to produce... with molecular manufacturing which we had since 2015 and AI controlled atomic scale manufacturing (since 2018), this would be relatively easy to do - but current production methodologies don't allow for such flexibility or necessarily technology to be implemented because production is done through cost efficiency, not technical efficiency and use of best possible methods with minimal impact to the environment.

As for AIB partners not selling GPU's at their MSRP price level... take it up with the AIB partners... I don't think AMD has much say in this matter. Its the same with NV. AIB's essentially put on their own things onto the GPU and then charge a premium well BEYOND the MSRP for what they did (in this sense, if you want an MSRP priced GPU, you need to get the base version).

AMD and NV should probably be able to offer their own original versions of GPU's at MSRP levels... AIB partners produce 'sprouced up' card for which you end up paying more money. 

Similarly, AMD should probably produce its own laptops... as they are bound to create far better models than what majority of OEM's come up with when it comes to  cutting corners and overcharging for it.

Yes production is merely designed to maximize profit and margins and not for customer needs. My idea is that launches should by regulation not be done prematurely. The supply channel shoud be satrated at launch day. Production should be at an efficient level not just eaking out a few product until kinks are worked out. The kinks should be worked out before launch. I know most people won't het their card on launch day , but due to greed and malfeasance at best most retail have none to just a few of the RX 6800 series.

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[thelvyn]

In short he is saying he doesn't like something so it should be regulated.  That is a horrible idea.  It also would not change whether he had one of these cards in his hands, and would hurt industries across the board.

Just deal with the fact that these cards released at the same time as two major consoles released, in the middle of a pandemic that has screwed with supply chains all over the world, and a glut of horrible people online hoarding and reselling things.

The only part of the situation that should be regulated is the ability for people to use bots to hoard cards.  Support the stopping Grinch bots act.  Democrats have been trying to bring it up for the past few years.  It basically says it is illegal to circumvent a captcha or to use bots to buy products online without the consent of the site.  It's a simple and good bill that makes sense.

Here is a one sheet describing it.

https://tonko.house.gov/uploadedfiles/grinch_bots_fact_sheet.pdf

[os2wiz]

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@thelvyn wrote:

In short he is saying he doesn't like something so it should be regulated.  That is a horrible idea.  It also would not change whether he had one of these cards in his hands, and would hurt industries across the board.

Just deal with the fact that these cards released at the same time as two major consoles released, in the middle of a pandemic that has screwed with supply chains all over the world, and a glut of horrible people online hoarding and reselling things.

The only part of the situation that should be regulated is the ability for people to use bots to hoard cards.  Support the stopping Grinch bots act.  Democrats have been trying to bring it up for the past few years.  It basically says it is illegal to circumvent a captcha or to use bots to buy products online without the consent of the site.  It's a simple and good bill that makes sense.

Here is a one sheet describing it.

https://tonko.house.gov/uploadedfiles/grinch_bots_fact_sheet.pdf

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Yes I believe unbridled capitalism is a dangerously broken system. Regulate it? No, I would like to destroy it and build an egalitarian world. That can only be done by organizing the masses of workers to act collectively in our own interest to smash the capitalist state and construct a new global community. It is a daunting task, but one I know through a life of organizing class struggle as a member of the Progressive Labor Party is entirely possible.  See plp.org

[dadyal]

I highly doubt AMD is selling them chip so expansive they can't build a board  and cooler for it in $650 range this is clearly supply issue of both chips as well other stuff that populates pcb for gpu and AIB's want to make most of out of it by only selling high end gpus with more margins as they leard from nvidia launch and not base price versions and at price of their own choosing as they can do it right now AMD is competing with nvidia on this while AIB's knows that demand is high so they will sell what ever they make  if anyone thinks that RX 6800 and RX 6800XR chips cost more than RTX 3080 chip that goes into $700 Asus card is brain dead 

[noko]

Thread is laughable, cards sold at MSRP, if retailers and others sell higher -> not AMD issue.

PowerColor Red Devil something has 14 phase power circuit to the GPU while reference has 10, has very expensive 16 phase digital controller, higher cost capacitors etc. No cost cutting there and PowerColor put a premium value on it, not AMD. The PowerColor board, cooler etc. is fricking awesome yet some use that to show MSRP is a lie. Other AIB cards also have expensive additions

Anyways AMD already stated that their pricing do allow MSRP AIB cards, once the AIBs bin more of their chips we should see more variety in the cards from MSRP and up.

Nothing new with AMD having a limited run with reference cards, better to have a stable base for drivers and to show AIBs in how to do it vice a large initial release of variations of board designs.

Now that being said, all MSRPs, not just GPUs may take a hit since the dollar value keeps on declining. From March to now it is over 10% less in value per dollar and still appears to be dropping.

Nothing here in this thread as far as I can tell.