Drivers & Software

[fahdriyami]

Currently, graphics drivers for the Ryzen Z1 Extreme come from OEMs (Asus, for now).

I would much rather these drivers were provided by AMD so that we get all the latest game optimizations. The same applies to chipset drivers.

We shouldn't have to rely on OEMs for this.

[fahdriyami]

Just saw that the drivers for the 7840U were released, but sadly they don't support the Z1 Extreme. I really hope we'll see an official driver for this chip too.

[elstaci]

I doubt that AMD will supply graphics driver for the Z1 Extreme since it is considered to be a OEM Processor (Asus).

Only Asus can provide drivers for your Z1 Extreme since your processor was specifically made to be used in Asus only hardware.

[fahdriyami]

The Ryzen Z1 series are not OEM processors though, they are a timed exclusive to Asus but they will be available for any vendor once that exclusivity ends, and be no different to the 7840U and other chips that OEMs put in their devices now.

So I think the driver will come eventually, I just hope its sooner rather than later.

[elstaci]

I stand corrected. You are right.

The Z1 Series is a new APU processor from AMD but as I mentioned it is used for the time being on Asus Handheld gaming device so Asus will be the one providing the drivers to make it compatible with their Handheld gaming device.

From AMD concerning the new Z1 Series APUs it mentions that for the time being Asus is only one utilizing this APU : https://www.amd.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-4-25-amd-introduces-ryzen-z1-series-processors-e...

SANTA CLARA, Calif., April 25, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Today, AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) introduced the new Ryzen Z1 Series processors, the ultimate high-performance processor for handheld PC gaming consoles¹. The Ryzen Z1 Series features two high performance processors, the Ryzen Z1 and Ryzen Z1 Extreme, both offering industry-leading gaming experiences, uncompromising battery life, and featuring AMD RDNA™ 3 architecture-based graphics. AMD is partnering with Asus to launch the first Ryzen Z1 Series device with the Asus ROG Ally, a premium handheld PC console, featuring up to a Ryzen Z1 Extreme processor

But since the Z1 series, by the article above, will be only for HandHeld Gaming consoles it would seem to still be an OEM processor unless AMD comes out with a generic driver that will work on all various OEM Handheld gaming consoles.

So I guess as you mentioned you will need to see if AMD does come out with a generic AMD driver that will work on different gaming consoles otherwise the OEM will be the ones supplying the drivers since it will be compatible with their own consoles. But if it is going to be used in the XBOX Console then AMD with MS might come out with AMD drivers and maybe in the future for the Asus Gaming console also.

[fahdriyami]

Even if they were OEM processors, that hasn't stopped AMD in the past from releasing drivers for them directly.

The Ryzen Microsoft Surface Edition processors are strictly OEM processors, only available on Microsoft Surface PCs, but you will find the latest graphics drivers available from AMD directly.

The Z1 series don't even have the Asus brand in their name, yet are not officially supported? Makes little sense.

That's why my guess is that we will get these drivers from AMD, I'm just wondering when.

[elstaci]

That is why I mentioned that the Z1 looks like will be part of the XBOX console in the future, so AMD might have drivers for those since AMD is cooperating in providing drivers for MS Surface PCs.

But AMD may not have the same type of deal with other OEM Handheld consoles. Still since that processor is still very new AMD probably hasn't yet come out with drivers.

According to another current thread here at AMD Forums, concerning the Ryzen 7840U, which the Z1 is identical to the 7840U except with the A.I. processor disabled, AMD will finally come out with drivers for that Mobile processor 7840U and others at the end of July according to an article a User linked in his reply.

So check next month and see if AMD has nay drivers for the Z1 series APU or not and if they do see which devices it is compatible with.

NOTE: Try opening a AMD Service Request and ask them directly and see if AMD will support the Z1 with drivers in the future from here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form

[fahdriyami]

@elstaci wrote:

AMD will finally come out with drivers for that Mobile processor 7840U and others at the end of July according to an article a User linked in his reply.

---

That driver was released today. I mentioned that in the first comment you replied to. XD

Unfortunately, its not compatible with the Z1 Extreme, even though the chip is basically identical to the 7840U.

[elstaci]

Yea, I forgot you did mention that but I also mentioned to check next month to see if AMD has come out with any Z1 drivers since it is so new. 

Thanks for sarcastically bringing it to my attention though. (-: .

The way I look at it the Z1 series seems to be a specialized APU processor for gaming consoles. Maybe later on it will expand to other devices.

So that means that for AMD to create a driver it must be generic enough to work on all OEM gaming consoles. Unless AMD decides to create specific drivers for specific OEM gaming consoles which I don't see happening.

I can see AMD making drivers for Microsoft XBOX gaming consoles since they are already are cooperating with Microsoft in creating drivers for MS Surface PCs.

Now, unless all OEM Gaming consoles operates basically the same, I can't see AMD creating a generic driver that would be compatible with all OEM gaming consoles. Since each OEM Gaming consoles would have it own specific use of how the APU would be used and to be able to use all of the OEM gaming console's features.

Just my opinion but then again I might be completely wrong.

You can either wait to see if AMD will support the Z1 series APU with drivers or contact AMD Support and just ask them directly.

[LordRahl72]

@elstaci wrote: The way I look at it the Z1 series seems to be a specialized APU processor for gaming consoles.

Why do you keep bringing up game consoles? The Ally is just a Windows 11 PC with a controller attached to it. You bring up the word "Game Console" as if it is some custom software running it. 

The Ally is no different than the various other Windows 11 based handhelds that have recently come out. 

[elstaci]

If you read my previous reply with the quote from the article (Today, AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) introduced the new Ryzen Z1 Series processors, the ultimate high-performance processor for handheld PC gaming consoles¹) That I posted is the reason why I mentioned it is for game consoles only for the time being. Maybe later it might be incorporated in other devices other than game consoles.

@LordRahl72  quoted: "Game Console" as if it is some custom software running it.

You do realize that Game Console is both software and hardware right?  Each OEM Game Console probably has it own propriety software and hardware which is different from other OEM Game Consoles. So to make AMD driver it has to be generic enough to be compatible with both Software and hardware of each OEM Gaming Console. I am just using my logic here so I could be completely wrong.

[LordRahl72]

But like I said, the Ally IS NOT A GAME CONSOLE. It is a Windows 11 PC. 

By your reasoning, any Windows PC that is used to play games is a console? 

[elstaci]

First, you are quite in error.

Okay you keep bringing up the Ally so I googled it. According to AMD, the ALLY is a gaming console according to AMD: https://www.amd.com/en/gaming/handhelds/rog-ally.html

Which is why it is using the Z1 processor since it is a handheld console with Windows 11.

Maybe you should google Asus ALLY before replying in the future.

NOTE: @LordRahl72 "By your reasoning, any Windows PC that is used to play games is a console? " 

Again you are completely wrong. It is really inane for you to say that I believe all Windows PC are game consoles when the Ally is not a Windows PC but a gaming console.

I suggest you google the difference between a Handheld gaming Console and a Windows PC before replying in the future again.

[LordRahl72]

I own the Ally, along with serval other Windows 11 handhelds with built in controllers. They are no different than any other Window PC you have ever used. They don't use any custom operating system or hardware. The word "console" is a marketing term only. 

Regardless, just as with any Windows PC, and since there is no hardware difference from any other AMD APU, there really is no excuse for AMD to not include their own Windows hardware with their unified driver packages. 

But looking at how AMD has bungled up the drivers for all the current 7k series APU's, I guess they have a lot of work cut out for them. 

[johnnyenglish]

I've been watching closely because this remembers me some of my own topics. 

The definition of things is a fine line, first and foremost, if its classified by the vendor as such, then it is what it is. A gaming console. 

Which remember a topic of mine where I stated the maximum curve optimizer available, that was not me saying, its me quoting. The same here. 

The fine line then:

Is XBOX a PC too? Its PC hardware. And what about the Macbook, they left x86 for ARM, are they phones or tablets? And a phone? I mean.. its just small computer. And what about a server?

And this goes on, is a Hayabusa a car? It does have a big 1.3cc 4inline engine like a car. Same hardware. 

Super simple. 

[elstaci]

Man, you just won't accept when you are wrong will you.

A Windows PC is very different from a Handheld Console.

Since you are afraid go google the difference between a HandHeld Console and a Windows PC I did that for you and found this article that actually compare the two: https://learn.g2.com/pc-vs-console

PC vs console gaming

Before diving into the differences, we need to define the purpose of each device. Popular consoles today like Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are used mostly for gaming, but can also stream multimedia content from cloud applications. If you have a cable or satellite subscription, you can also route these services through a console.PCs, on the other hand, can be used for a variety of purposes like graphic design, blogging, programming, streaming, web surfing, and much more. With the right hardware, PCs can also be used for gaming.

The article then goes into detail the actual difference between the two.

[fahdriyami]

The Ally is not a game console lol. Despite what Asus and AMD marketing decided to call it.

It runs full standard Windows 11. Making it a PC. Not a console. Everything you can run on a Windows laptop, you can run on the Ally. You cant say the same for actual game consoles. That's not to say that it doesn't blur the lines because it has controllers.

The Xbox has PC hardware, yes, and Xbox OS is based on Windows, but it's not standard Windows, its a specialized OS specifically made for the Xbox. The same for the Playstation, the same for the Switch. The Ally doesnt fall into this category.

This isn't difficult to understand. Not that it even matters in the context of this thread.

[johnnyenglish]

Well then.. I'm sorry to break it to you....

That is not how the world works, you don't get to categorize at your will just because you think its better that way. 

Calling a handheld console a "regular" PC is a bit like calling a Thin Client a "regular" PC. Its not, It has its own category.

PC is a general definition that includes a wide variety of devices, if you follow the rule of what a PC is, then...

... every piece of tech that falls under that general rule will be a PC, even a Tablet, that of course is not known in any way as a PC.

Software, like the OS, is not how things get to be categorized. For that matter a Spectrum 128K would hardly be called a PC these days and yet, the spectrum is more like a PC than the ALLY.

So what is a gaming console? Well, everything that falls under this. Please note the last paragraph.

Conclusion.
I don't really need you to be convinced and I believe even after all this, you won't change your mind. But you should. Why?

When I'm wrong, I'll just back off, but if I do say something wrong (and I said so many wrong things) then I'll say exactly what @elstaci said in this thread before. That takes character, this is why He is one of the best users on this forum.

---

@elstaci wrote:

I stand corrected. You are right.

---

[fahdriyami]

Like I said in my last reply, in the context of this discussion, it doesn't matter whether we agree on this or not.

Going back to the topic in hand - before this epic derailment - we need official graphics drivers for the Z1 Extreme, just as we now have for the 7840U. At least according to Reddit, users are absolutely loving the new drivers on their 7840U GPD, Ayaneo, Aokzoe handhelds. Meanwhile Ally users are still stuck on outdated drivers.

This is the last I'm going to reply to this comment thread, as clearly it has degraded to pointless bickering on both parts. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it there.

[ramihaidafy]

Having read through this entire thread, I agree. Agreeing to disagree is the most sensible conclusion.

As someone who also owns an Ally and is struggling with unoptimized drivers for the latest games, I would love to see AMD properly support the Z1 Extreme with official drivers.

AMD, please make it happen.

[johnnyenglish]

Well, I don't really see any serious derailment and/or bickering. I see an unnecessary off topic debate which I had to intervein to correct an error. 

"We not agreeing", won't change what things are.

Keep in mind that you are not disagreeing with me but with almost everyone, like I said before, this is not me stating, its me quoting. 

Thank You for your participation none the less. 

; - ) 

[Blackharold420]

You're unfortunately wrong even by your own definitions. A Hayabusa is not a car but can used like one, a pc is not a game console but can be used like one, therefore the ally is still a full fledged windows 11 pc but can be used like a gaming handheld console but doesn't make it a console. Someone's personal prefered use of an item doesn't change what it is. That's like saying because I use my phone for Spotify its now an mp3 player lol 

[johnnyenglish]

Am I? 

I Suggest you go back and read better, after it, bring facts to the table, not your conclusions. 

So I guess I'm right untill proven wrong.

And to back up my own conclusions with facts, which you have not done. Hayabusa is indeed a motorcycle with an engine design of a car. But it doesnt make it a car by any means. (this is what I meant, in case you have not understood it)

By extension, the fact that it runs windows is irrelevant to make it get PC designation, or else a spectrum wouldnt be a PC as it does not run windows.

And if you are not yet confused, is a mobile phone running windows a PC? Of course not. Even if it can do the same as a PC.

But thank you for your participation none the less. 

[ramihaidafy]

Yes, a mobile phone running Windows makes it a PC.

PC is a very generic term: "A personal computer (PC) is a multi-purpose microcomputer whose size, capabilities, and price make it feasible for individual use."

A Windows desktop is a PC, a Windows laptop is a PC, a Windows tablet is a PC, a Windows mobile phone is a PC, a Windows handheld is a PC. What is common among all of them is that they run the same version of Windows (x86 vs ARM aside). In every single example, you have keyboard input, you have mouse input, you have a desktop, you have apps, you can connect a USB printer and print documents etc etc.

Just because they have different form factors doesn't make one a PC and the other not a PC.

[johnnyenglish]

Are you even reading my replies? Are you really describing what a PC is after I made a post about it with a image from Wikipédia as well? 

It looks like you are changing things to fit your conclusions. You need to be coherent or no one will take you seriously. 

I have to ask, for how long are you in tech? Looks like you just received a computer last xmas and now everything revolves around you. 

Go back and read carefully what I said about PC. 

Then understand that PC is a general description that serves every piece of tech used by individuals today.

However, sub categorizations exist to better serve specific designs.

The OS is NOT, let me be clear, NOT a factor while categorization goes. There are several PC that don't run Windows at all! Or even have the capability to do so.

You CANNOT say that a specific embedded system widely used in IT Industrial applications is a PC even if you connect a keyboard to it and run Windows. That is just.. I'm sorry to say.. A Dumb affirmation. But hey, its on you if you like to call it a PC.

We are not going to start calling Linux Handheld just because someone wanted open source on the Ally....

To sum it up, call it what you want. The Ally is just a console, but hey, Like I said before, its not me saying. Its me quoting.

 

[ramihaidafy]

I'm going to ignore your subtle insults because I'd like to think people who actually have an argument are above that.

Lets break down what you said, sub-categories do indeed exist, and what i was specifically referring to is Windows-based devices. Of course a Mac is still a PC because it runs it MacOS, a consumer operating system. The OS is absolutely a factor into what is considered a PERSONAL computer.

An embedded system is not a PERSONAL computer. People don't use embedded computers used to run billboards as a PERSONAL device. But the Ally, that is a PERSONAL device.

I love how you keep bringing up what Asus marketing calls the device, as if you are oblivious to how companies market their products.

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter how you define it, because people use it as a PERSONAL computer. Some to play games, some to edit videos, some docked as a full fledged desktop alternative.

To sum it up, call it what you want. The Ally is a PC, but hey, like I said before, its not me saying. Its a fact.

[fahdriyami]

Buddy, you're wasting your time trying to talk to sense to people like him. They thrive on the attention because they have nothing better to do.

It's not worth it.

BTW, I managed to install the 23.8.1 drivers on the Ally, and they work incredibly well, with some huge boosts in performance on some games.

[johnnyenglish]

Do you know me by a chance? Do you know what I do for a living?

Yeah, that's what I though. You are fabricating excuses and spiting them into the forum.
See? I have a problem with that. Don't ever expect me just to stop replying because you think I don't have anything better to do.

But one thing I do have, lots of patience.

[johnnyenglish]

We are way past that, they are not subtle at all and it looks like you are the one without an argument.

You don't seem to be coherent or understand the fact that, I already said before in this topic.. I'm not here to convince you of anything.

I am here to keep misinformation at a minimum.

You are outright ignoring what ASUS established what the device IS.

Calling it something else just because you see fit, is considered misinformation to everyone else who reads it. Specially in a public forum.

I told you countless arguments and examples, not really to convince, but to keep this post straight. You on the other hand are just diverting, ignoring and by the look of your last post, you even fail to understand the most basic concepts of IT Industry or figures of speech.
BTW, in a reverse irony, now that I think really well, an embedded computer can actually be used as personal, but You didn't knew that, right? Have you ever worked with ZETA Display Digital Signage. I though you wouldn't.

in the meantime...

I'll do you a good analogy, real life solid argument.

But before that, let me help you understand, I'm using figures of speech here.

"I don't like to call a door, its just wrong marketing from Ford to call the open/close devices on my car door's. Really! Let me just ignore that and said everyone else who calls that a door they are wrong."

There, I think it fits.

Written from my Linux Based Handheld Computer

[ramihaidafy]

Yeah, I'm going to do what others have suggested and stop engaging with you.

Have a nice day.

[johnnyenglish]

This is a community forum, not an Airport. You do not need to announce that.

Lots of people do confuse the forum with bridges and airports lately. So weird... must be the categorization that went wrong.

[fahdriyami]

The best way to deal with these people. Trust me, they can't stand being ignored. It infuriates them lol.

[johnnyenglish]

Yeah sure, as always, you know nothing. But yeah.. you should start ignoring. 

You know what they say, ignorance is a bliss.

Go find your bliss and stop posting from under the bridge. 

[elstaci]

LoL, I was about to say the same thing about "Ignorance is bliss".

Sometimes it isn't worth trying to convince certain people no matter how much evidence you post.

They are the ones that are going to look foolish in other forums by stating their "facts" about a gaming console is he same thing as a PC Desktop.

[ramihaidafy]

Agreed.

BTW, there are new drivers released for the Ally with support for Starfield. I'm not 100% certain, but they are most likely based on the latest official driver from AMD with support for the game.

Worth giving it a try.

[holli146]

AMD please don't be so foolish and Support the Ryzen Z1 series with your own drivers! It's the same gpu as in the APU for the Laptops, which you are supporting with the new driver.

The Asus rog ally is a great device, but without the support of AMD it will fail in long term. 

Some games are still not running on the device due to driver issues and that could already be fixed, if the new driver would support the Ryzen Z1.

[elstaci]

This is a new processor line up that just came out recently. So it may take a while for AMD to create drivers for if it does as it did for the equivalent 7840U APU processor.

I suggest you open a AMD Service Request and ask them directly since they probably would have more information concerning this new processor from here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/contact-email-form

[ramihaidafy]

The Ally is a flagship handheld with a flagship handheld APU, I'm surprised that there isn't more official support for it.

Hopefully we will get an official driver soon.

[ramihaidafy]

It appears that AMD quietly dropped support for the Radeon 780M in the Ryzen 7840U driver because of a bug that locks GPU clocks to 800Mhz, resulting in poor performance. I can confirm that the same happens when forcing the driver on the ROG Ally with the Z1 Extreme.

So the wait continues. 

[Draxis]

Unfortunate. The window to return my 7840U device is closing and I really don't want it if the driver support isn't going to be there. It's currently pretty dang unstable with the manufacturer's drivers, with periodic crashes in practically every game I've tried.