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Drivers & Software

deksman2
Adept II

GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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The GL702ZC laptop has a desktop grade RX 580 inside with 4GB VRAM and a desktop Ryzen 1700.

I was wondering, why isn't Wattman showing up in any of the Adrenaline drivers under Global settings and does AMD plan to do something about this?

I have supplied a picture of what my Adrenaline drivers look like (I'm running the latest ones).

This laptop seems to be a real success, but we need Wattman to undervolt the GPU on the VRAM as well as a core.

Latest MSI Afterburner can only be used to undervolt the core clocks (I was able to get a stable -93mV across all workloads, and even -100mV works sometimes), however, MSI Afterburner does not offer VRAM undervolting (which I think is needed, because running 2000 MhZ at 1V seems a bit high... we might be able to get away with a lower voltage on the memory and further decrease temperatures and power draw (not to mention allowing us to reduce voltages on other P states as well).

Maximum temperatures with -93mV are in the area of 73 - 75 degrees Celsius - which is of course a lot better than 85-88 degrees C without undervolting... and of course, it helps keep the laptop fans in check too.

Also, having Wattman in drivers for this GPU would remove the need from constantly fiddling with MSI Afterburner, as Wattman is also a program specifically designed to work with AMD hardware (giving us better control over it).

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elstaci
MVP

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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I imagine because Wattman can be used to Overclock GPUs which is pretty much prohibited by Laptop manufacturers. Laptops are not engineered to be Overclocked in any way, otherwise it could end up damaging the Laptop.

Wattman is meant to be used on a Desktop that has no restrictions while Laptop do have restrictions. Need to remember, your RX-580 is a Laptop GPU not a Desktop GPU. It was made to run in a laptop under the laptop's specs.

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17 Replies
elstaci
MVP

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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deksman2
Adept II

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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There was a reply in that thread saying that Wattman is not for laptops...

but, that doesn't make particular sense considering that the GL702ZC has

desktop grade hardware... also, why prohibit use of Wattman on mobile in

the first place?

the GPU would still benefit from undervolting.

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elstaci
MVP

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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I imagine because Wattman can be used to Overclock GPUs which is pretty much prohibited by Laptop manufacturers. Laptops are not engineered to be Overclocked in any way, otherwise it could end up damaging the Laptop.

Wattman is meant to be used on a Desktop that has no restrictions while Laptop do have restrictions. Need to remember, your RX-580 is a Laptop GPU not a Desktop GPU. It was made to run in a laptop under the laptop's specs.

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deksman2
Adept II

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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Except that Wattman is not only used for overclocking.

It's also meant for undervolting - which is what I'm primarily interested

in.

Laptop manufacturers often mess up the cooling, resulting in thermal

throttling at STOCK settings, and AMD admitted themselves they increased

the voltages to all of their GPU's from factory to improve yields.

Undervolting the GPU would result in much lower power expenditure and lower

temperatures.

Take my Ryzen 1700 CPU in the laptop for example.

It's original voltage was set to too high... 1.1875V at 3GhZ across all

cores.

I can easily undervolt the CPU to 1.05V and overclock it to 3.3 GhZ

(increasing performance by 10% and radically dropping power consumption and

heat emissions - my CPU is actually cooler by 10 degrees Celsius as a

result and 10% FASTER).

Point being, laptops can easily run overclocked and undervolted without

damaging anyhing... but it depends on the individual system.

For the GPU, I'm not interested in overclocking it as it has plenty of

juice and that would only bring minimal improvements even if it were done.

I want to undervolt the RX 580 on the core and VRAM to radically drop power

consumption.

I was already able to use MSI Afterburner to drop the core voltage by -93mV

stable across all workloads and it dropped my temperatures from 88 degrees

Celsius to 75 degrees Celsius at maximum load - and it also resulted in

much quieter fans.

I want wattman so I can undervolt the GPU VRAM in addition to the core

undervolt and see if I can drop power consumption further.

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elstaci
MVP

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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I understand what you are saying. But if other users with Laptops see that Wattman is available, they may try to OVERCLOCK or change some other parameters on the GPUs causing unknown consequences with the laptop. In my opinion, I believe this is the reason why AMD doesn't make Wattman available for Laptops.

One of the Moderators here in AMD Forum could probably give the actual reason why Wattman is not included in Mobile Driver sets.

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ray_m
Community Manager
Community Manager

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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Due to thermal issues, most laptops are not designed to support overclocking. Enabling Wattman on a laptop would enable BOTH under and overclocking, so it's disabled.

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deksman2
Adept II

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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If people don't understand how to use Wattman, they shouldn't use it on

laptops or on desktops. Plain and simple.

Actually, most people interested in laptop modifications would try to

undervolt their GPU's to increase efficiency and then see if they can

overclock within a given margin to observe how much performance they can

extract at same or lower power levels without over-stressing the hardware

and cooling... majority of the time, they usually settle on an undervolt.

Also, the argument that laptops would run hot is not especially valid,

considering that even desktops run at a high risk of overheating if

overclocked incorrectly - which has been done before.

If anything, desktops have a much higher failure rate in comparison to

laptops when it comes to such modifications.

Laptop users who do such modifications tend to be a lot more careful.

But again, we're talking about a laptop with desktop grade hardware and

drivers written for desktop (not laptop).

These are desktop RX 580 drivers... so I fail to see why Wattman is STILL

not showing up in drivers.

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ray_m
Community Manager
Community Manager

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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Because the device ID of the GPU probably indicates that it's a laptop device ? Unfortunately, there is nothing more than can be done.

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deksman2
Adept II

Re: GL702ZC - Wattman doesn't exist in drivers?

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Except that many laptops have a tendency to experience thermal throttling and hardware failures more often than not because OEM's don't design adequate cooling in the first place for STOCK clocks.

Wattman is needed in laptops to UNDERVOLT the GPU (without touching the clocks) on both core and memory.

Assuming that most people would just overclock the GPU in laptops without 0 regard for temperatures or power consumption is misguided at best.

Laptop users are far more cautious with such modifications and usually opt for undervolting.

Besides, if a GPU is over-stressed because someone ended up overclocking it, other issues would crop up long before hardware failure... too high temperatures which would easily shut down the OS, artifacting, and a myriad of other issues.

Besides, this is a desktop grade RX 580 using desktop drivers... not mobile drivers.

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