cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Drivers & Software

Schmelge
Adept II

21.3.1 made VR even worse

I didn't think it was possible but VR is now even more broken than it was before the update. Before the update it was possible to solve "most" problems by turning off all monitors. But now doing that absolutely wrecks the fps and it goes down to 4 fps. Turning on monitors again does not solve the issue, you have to restart SteamVR for it to work again.

Does AMD have a QA department that actually check the new drivers before they are released?

0 Likes
5 Replies
CaTaPulT
Adept II

Re: 21.3.1 made VR even worse

Yes, both March released drivers break VR pretty bad, use the 21.2.3 drivers, for myself, these work well for VR. Using a Valve Index with a 6900xt.

Regards: Jack

0 Likes
Schmelge
Adept II

Re: 21.3.1 made VR even worse

Thank you very much for acknowledging this. Everytime I "complain" about it on forums I always get downvoted and taken for a lier.

Thank you alot  

CaTaPulT
Adept II

Re: 21.3.1 made VR even worse

Hello.

Unfortunately, us VR enthusiasts are not taken very seriously by most people and unfortunately, AMD or nVidia.

But in time things may change as VR gets more and more popular, as much as people like bashing the Oculus Quest-2, it's a great little HMD for it's price point and can work rather well for PCVR with Link cable, this little headset is selling like hotcakes right now and might be bringing VR closer to the mainstream. One day, PC hardware manufacturers, will have to take VR more seriously.

I hope by rolling back to the 21.2.3 drivers your problems get dealt with since both March drivers are pathetic for VR.

Regards: Jack

0 Likes
leyvin
Miniboss

Re: 21.3.1 made VR even worse

The bigger issue at play is both in terms of Hardware (VR HMD) and VR API., as even after almost 4 years of "Mainstream" VR... the situation remains a complete mess.

While I'm sure you've been having issues with your particular VR System., conversely speaking my own (Windows Mixed Reality) has been working on all of the mentioned drivers just fine without any performance or stability issues.

But then WMR added (native) Support for Open XR back in 2019., and that more or less solved all previous issues with Compatibility. Where-as Valve, HTC and Oculus over the same period have begun to double-down on their Proprietary Driver approaches; which I think has been leading to the rising issues in Compatibility and Stability.

It also doesn't help that Valve keep "Updating" in the same vein as Windows 10 Updates., where they "Fix" Problems without any proper QA; push it out as a Beta... don't get much feedback and assume that means it's "Working As Intended" rather than the reality that MOST people don't / can't be bothered to report any issues and instead just assume the Developers know of them and will fix it later.

Now why bring up this point., well it's because AMD also support Open XR... remember that like Vulkan is based upon Mantle., Open XR is based upon Liquid VR. You'd be surprised how many of the "Open" Standards are now essentially rebranded AMD APIs. This is likely what has led to the substantially improved Compatibility with AMD Products over the past 5 years.

Still in any case., this also means that when it comes to Proprietary / 3rd Party Approaches., especially as most seem to want to Black Box Solutions (which is stupid, esp. if you're TRYING to ensure Widespread Adoption); well it means Support is going to be lacking and slower.
I mean I'd argue it's unfair to expect AMD (or NVIDIA) to have to keep reverse engineering other people' technology JUST to make sure they can have their Drivers support it properly.

 •

With all this said., I think that the Honeymoon Period for VR is more-or-less over now. 
Don't get me wrong, it's a more popular technology that I'd originally estimated and frankly it's professional application is likely what's going to keep it relevant / continue development going forward... but as far as Consumer Products go, like Microsoft Kinect., it's more or less done outside of Enthusiasts. 

And I'd say a major factor is STILL that it remains too expensive as a Consumer Device. 
I mean you're looking at $200+ for a Graphics Card Capable of handling VR., plus $250 - $900 for an actual VR Kit (HMD + Controllers)... sure there are things like Quest, which at "Reasonable" being a $350-400 "All-in-One" Solution; but the Quality of the Output is on-par with the Oculus Prototypes from 5-6 years ago... which is great from a Proof-of-Concept standpoint but simply not good enough for an Everyday Device.

Beyond this., there NEEDs to be a consensus in regards to a Standardised Approach.
HDR *ALSO* needs this... it's why HDR remains an absolute mess on PC right now., because no one can agree on HDR10 / HLG / Dolby Vision; or which of the 4-6 Output Approaches to use... add into that the current situation where GPU Manufacturers want to stick with DisplayPort; while Display Manufacturers want to stick with HDMI... and NEITHER want to give any ground meaning even IF your Display Supports HDR; good luck ACTUALLY connecting it with enough bandwidth to support it outside of YUV 4:2:2 (which is Limited) or having the correct Metadata sent.

As it stands in MOST situations on Windows 10, you can either have HDR or WCG; you can't have the full HDR10 Experience., which does make a massive difference in Visual Quality. 

And like VR., until the major players all agree to clear standards that everyone will support going forward; well what you'll have are Consumers, Drivers and Support that will mean buying such devices is going to remain a Lottery on the Experience. 

While sure I started this by saying Windows Mixed Reality is one of the few that has no issues today... keep in mind that essentially Microsoft has retired the WMR Program (in favour of Hololens; which is still what 2 years minimum from a viable Consumer Version) and the OEMs that were supporting it have almost all simply ceased to continue producing said Devices. 
(The Standard still exists., OEMs are just no longer making them; likely due to poor sales)

And this is obviously an issue, as well because Sales drop; this either drives prices up and / or results in fewer competing products.

Personally I'd like to see a WMR 2.0., with Higher Resolution, HDR Support, and Improved Motion Controllers.... but then until the current "Situation" in the world is resolved., could we actually see such at a better price point; eh, who knows but I doubt it.
And that's the thing... I think "Next Gen" VR Units realistically need to have built-in GPUs., Polaris 20 is more than enough for "Current Gen" VR needs; and switched onto a Navi Architecture and 7nm Node; could be produced very small and low power enough.

Same is true for Wireless (rechargable) Units., which again that's another improvement that is somewhat needed but isn't exactly a "Base" Feature for most HMD right now.

Improvements need to be made., but look at where such are coming from at present. 

Valve with their excessively expensive solution.... I mean I like VR., but not enough to spend essentially the same as what I spent on my entire Rig; which hardly a performance slouch. It's just not worth it, especially with VR Games slowing to a crawl; let alone a continued lack of AAA VR Game Experiences. 

We've literally seen ZERO improvements made over the past 5 years., or even attempts to... really R&D solutions to where a VR Headset could replace a Traditional Display; again this goes into the cost somewhat., because IF it was a choice between Traditional Display or VR Display; well more could justify the price more., but it isn't. 

Anything outside of purpose designed VR Experiences., such-as just using your Desktop remains awkward and uncomfortable with a VR Display. 

0 Likes
CaTaPulT
Adept II

Re: 21.3.1 made VR even worse

Hi Leyvin and thank you for the reply.

I'm a 62 year old retired person, I got into VR 4 years ago (after retirement), I started out with a cheap Chinese HMD, the Pimax 4k, as far as HMDs go, it was a terrible headset BUT gave me a taste of what VR was all about, 3 weeks later, I ordered a HTC Vive. I've had many various HMDs over the 4 years just because I very much enjoy it, I can't say I'm in VR all the time, but when I do I enjoy it immensely. For something like Sim Racing, I compare it to being in the car, driving the car as compared to triple screen where I was just driving the car.

I know what you mean regarding all the subjects you spoke of with all the software involved, it reminded me of a Murphy's Law..... "It's the wonderful thing about standards, there are so many to choose from" LOL

I do hope one day, OpenXR becomes THE standard for VR, but all current software would have to be modified to use OpenXR if I read correctly.

As for HDR standards, as far as I know, HDR10 seems to be the one HDR standard that all HDR capable TVs can do, so why don't they just do HDR-10, not that I understand why the world has to be so complicated when it could be a lot simpler.

As for the March release drivers breaking VR, I just don't understand why it was working well with the February drivers just to be broken with the March ones, they changed something in the drivers that really messed up VR. My point was to tell people who might not suspect the March drivers with their VR problems to just roll back to the last Feb driver to fix things.

As for VR ever getting mainstream enough to get proper attention and ONE standard (OpenXR), time will tell. I also agree with you as far as general computing (web browsing, videos, flat screen games, emails), for me, it's a lot easier doing all these things in the 2D space with a monitor. But when I want a escape and want to do something different, I put on the VR headset, to give a small example..... VR Chat, one of the things I like doing is going into VR Chat and going from world to world and looking around, since these are user created worlds, it's often like taking a trip into someone's imagination, and to play games like Half Life Alyx, it's just mind blowing and the immersion in that game with it's amazing spacial audio just cannot be reproduced on flat screen.

Again, thank you for the reply, you've brought up points I never would have thought of.

Regards: Jack

0 Likes