Likely these are for the R3 3100 and R3 3300 processors.
I'm taking a much firmer stance on x370 support for Zen3. When the platform was introduced, it was advertised as something compatible with all future AM4 based CPU's through 2020. On the other hand, I get it, if the motherboard doesn't have the power delivery capability required of the processor, then of course I'd give AMD and the motherboard manufacturer a pass. If the processor will technically work and the board manufacturer simply doesn't want to do the certification and BIOS update, then shame on them; I see it as a broken promise. I'll also concede that they can't support adding features to a product forever, but 3 years after a product has been replaced (X470) seems reasonable.
Interesting story, I owned an original AM2 based board (Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe), that was promised to be compatible with future processors. When Phenom 2 came out, many of the processors had power requirements outside of the power delivery of the motherboard, but not all of them, the Phenom 2 x4 945 as an example. Asus took the position that they weren't going to make updates to older boards. 6 months to a year later, some enterprising BIOS Modder added the firmware necessary to make it work. I downloaded that firmware and installed an x4 945, and it worked great. Another 6 months or so later, that exact firmware ended up on Asus's site as an official BIOS version.
So, if manufacturers don't add support for x370 motherboards, maybe some Modder will for your flavor of x370.
The same kind of discussion took place towards the end of last year when AMD as releasing AGESA code for the Ryzen 3000 series and some motherboards, specifically A320 chipset boards, weren't receiving it, though most actually ended up getting it, as to what AMD actually meant. AMD's commitment to Socket AM4 only went as far as to mean they would continue to use Socket AM4 through 2020, and it was up to the motherboard manufacturers to update their motherboards with the AGESA code to use those processors.
If AMD is going to have such long lived sockets, which they have since Socket 939 (except for TR4, but that was understandable), they need to start having a mandatory minimum set of standards AIBs must adhere to, and if it means only having one chipset, then so be it, so that every motherboard with a certain socket supports all processors which will be made fo rthat socket. In addition to a processor-less BIOS flashing ability, which they needed so badly for so long, power delivery systems and BIOS chip sizes, among other things, needs to all be the same as they are on the highest end models. Yes it may increase costs a little, but compared to the prices of Intel boards and the fact they'll be used for several generations makes it make sense. Heck, a quick look at Newegg shows the only A320 motherboard sold by them costs $95, mITX form factor, yet a X470 ATX board costs as little as $125...
Also if I had my way this AIB fragmentation garbage would be disallowed as well...Who the heck thought nine models of X570 motherboard from the same manufacturer, six of which are supposedly top tier (Aorus, as far as Gigabyte is concerned) was a good idea? That's just more models to do deep QC on every time a new AGESA is released, and all of the AIBs are just as guilty.
This has long been an issue with AMD, the lack of oversight and standards for board partners. If you allow them to cheap out they will. Then it seams as if AMD broke the promise not the board maker. The bios should have been at a minimum, made to have the capacity to support all generations since the claim was to support the socket. Now I can see the VRMs not supporting higher core counts. It is very possibles at the time they made the first gen they had no idea how many cores would be in 3rd or 4th gen chips. So I can see power not being adequate for future chips. They should however have no issues supporting the same core counts on all generations. In addition IMHO dual bios and the ability to flash a new bios from a USB drive should be standard too. Luckily for instance MSI had good vrms and those bios flash abilities standard but many board partners did not, thus the need for the painful step of loaner processors for many from AMD.
One thing I noticed at Micro Center the other day was that in store they only had a couple B450 boards and a few X570 boards. 6 weeks ago they had about 15 to 20 models each. I am guessing this covid-19 stuff is really stopping the supply chain.
With Ryzen 4000 series due out relatively soon though, given they need a few months lead time to get the boards out in supply, it's more likely they're making fewer of them as well.
The B450 boards had still been available in big numbers though as they really were still the current boards as they never released a 550 board. I just hope I get mine back soon. 22 days now and MSi has only acknowledged the recieved the RMA but not started a repair or replace process.
B550 comes in June, though the question is, will anyone buy them with the Ryzen 4000 series so close?
I suppose if it is the replacement for the cheaper route they will. Just seems silly nearly a year late. They should have come out near the same time as the 570. I did get message late yesterday that my 450 board was shipped back. Hope that means it is fixed.
Apparently this code was to fix a few bugs.
I finally got around to installing the 126.96.36.199 beta from MSI for my X570.
Fixes audio with Polaris and RAM for MIcron was all I could detect.
ASUS Crosshair VI Hero Wi-Fi
188.8.131.52 patch B
Fast Boot disabled. It's a couple of seconds longer than my 1800X, which was 13.9, but my board never advanced past 184.108.40.206B
Side thought: I really hope AMD, starting with the next socket, doesn't reset the AGESA versions with every new series...
Yes that will get very confusing. Unless they add some addition prefix that indicates what generation it is, or something like that. Don't count on it making sense though, life is rarely that easy. LOL
True, but with a 4 digit version number it could translate as: w.x.y.q
W: AGESA generation - 1 (Socket AM4), 2 (Socket AM5), etc...
X: Major revision number - 0 (Initial release), 1 (Second revision for second series processor), etc...
Y: Minor revision number - 0 (Initial release), 1 (Bug/performance improvement patch 1), etc...
Z: Very minor revision number - Replacing AMD's A/B/ABB/ABBA nonsense
So Socket AM5's first AGESA would be 220.127.116.11, then 18.104.22.168 when a performance improvement is introduced, then 22.214.171.124 when the Ryzen 6000 series is released, etc...
I notice that audio problems have been resolved with my RX 480 and the intermittent drop outs seem to be fixed. There are still problems but that seems to be more related to the driver stability issues.
I rest Windows yesterday after installing the new BIOS so that I would have a fresh baseline for analysis.
Hey I already said it wouldn't make sense. LOL
Just need to make USB BIOS Flashback a mandatory inclusion on every motherboard. No boot kit needed, easy BIOS recovery in the event of a failed flash, and ability to flash any BIOS version you desire since it's all offline.
only my x570 has that, the older boards do not
Uh, wrong, it's been a standard feature on top end motherboards for years. ASUS, for example, has had it since the 990FX days, 2012, and it was carried forward in their Crosshair series fir X370, X470, and X570 motherboards.
I have been using MSI boards since AM3 as the low cost Asus boards were dying left and right
Hope this fixes some POST issues I've been having with my Asus Strix X470-F. Randomly during POST (not all the time) my PC would not boot and RAM debug LED would stay on. I've already tried replacing RAM with a kit off the QVL list and I just recently upgraded my CPU so something with the motherboard I assume. Even when it boots sometimes it take a unusually long time during the DRAM check where the DRAM LED stays on for about 5 seconds and then it moves on. Hope this BIOS update solves this, it's been happening for a while, was thinking of upgrading my board but maybe this update will push that off for a little bit longer, I would appreciate that! Lol
On my MSI X570-A PRO I noticed the XMP was back to supporting A or B where the previous version had just one automatic setting.
At least there is no discernable problems other than tweaking the memory capabilities and some bug fixes.
I remember it well too, a defective 1800X cost me motherboard RMA (because I thought it was the motherboard), CPU RMA, and a new Windows 10 license, so about $200 extra expense...
One wonders how AMD would be doing if the sort of "perfect storm" of Intel issues didn't set them back so far.
And I wonder how tenacious they're going to be once Intel regoups and comes out with all guns blazing on both the CPU and GPU fronts next year. AMD's going to have to be prepared to adjust to a volatile marketplace on two fronts very quickly, and that's not something AMD has yet faced. Intel has been stuck in a rut and is not been a factor, and they've ceded all segments of the GPU market to nVidia...
I had read yesterday that Ryzen 5000 will not be out until 2022. So realistically that means that Intel could have 2 new generations in that time frame and Intel has done 2 generations in one year before. I did hear that the next 2 chip generations for Intel will work on the upcoming boards. So guessing it won't be a huge improvement but whatever they come out with in 2022 could be.
I guess the move to 5 nanometer, DDR 5 and USB 4 are going to delay things for AMD. Hopefully in that time frame they get their GPU issues in check.
The delay isn't such a bad thing. Ryzen first debuted when DDR4 was in its infancy which resulted in a RAM kit which was a fairly large part of a budget, a 16GB kit ran around the $200 mark. Now 16GB kits can be found for around the $100 mark. If DDR5 starts production at the end of this year or beginning of 2021, by the time the Ryzen 5000 series release the market should have both the stocks to ensure that supply meets demand, and that there is sufficient variety to ensure prices aren't sky high, especially since outside the HEDT and server markets DDR5 isn't going to increase performance.
Also in the rush for PCIe 4.0 AMD boards have to have an actively cooled chipset, whereas PCIe 5.0, if I read the specs correctly, is much more efficient and will remove the need for an active cooler, and will also result in reduced prices as a result. It's also still debatable, again outside of the HEDT and server markets, how useful PCIe 4.0 is for the home user and gamer since if you look at TechPowerUp's overall performance summary of 21 games with the 5700XT, there just isn't any. PCIe 4.0 SSDs with massive transfer rates may look good on paper, but those transfer rates just aren't found outside the HEDT and server markets where the queue depths actually get above 4, or even 1.
Delaying for USB 4 may be a good idea as well. I saw an article last week where it said USB 4.0 is going to include DisplayPort 2.0 Alt Mode, which will allow for power delivery as well as the bandwidth to drive up to a 16K display. Can you imagine in a few years where GPUs ship only with USB-C 4.0 connectors to drive, and power, all monitors? It may take an extra PCIe-8 connector to provide that power, but it sure would simplify cable management and replace large HDMI and DP cables and power bricks with a single cable.
All of this on top of the fact that it's going to give AMD a chance to come out with products to target every market segment at launch. And, of course, focus on the GPU designs since by 2022 Intel will no doubt be a firm third player in the market.
Very good points.
pokester wrote: Very good points.
A while ago somebody with a R9 Fury tried it on a range of PCIe slot speeds and lanes and it showed that even an x1 is not as bad as some would have you believe.
Looks like there will be no more updates for X300 and X400 chipset motherboards. AMD officially announced today Zen 3 based Ryzen 4000 series will be exclusive to the 500 series and newer chipset motherboards instead of removing obsolete 1000 and 2000 series CPU support to make space in the code.
The Exciting Future of AMD Socket AM4
That sucks so they LIED then and are not going offer support through 2020 until DDR5 boards arrive. Many boards should have no issues supporting the new processor. They should leave it up to the OEMs to decide to add support to whatever models they believe can support it. How intel of them. It is really frankly ridiculous, nobody upgrading is going to care if they can regress to an older processor! Honestly I have had 2 AMD Ryzen motherboards die now and am not impressed. I think the processor performs admirably but like with the GPU issues, these board failures are now going to really weigh heavily on future purchases for me. Not living up to promises they made does not instill much faith in purchases either.
So funny they act like them supporting it on B550 is full-filling the commitment. It isn't even released yet!
I can see many of the first gen boards not being a good idea. i can see limiting support to those new processors with equal core counts that wont overheat VRM's. But it is just stupid to think you are not going to alienate your customer base that knows darn well you could support at least some of the line and only have to give up support for moving backwards which frankly as long as this is disclosed is a non issue.
One more note of displeasure. Had i known this last August I would have spent the extra 60 bucks and gone to a 570 board. Their commitment affected my buying decision, and ultimately will cost me more money. Well I did just get my check from the last class action lawsuit from AMD's miss-information. We will see how this turns out. I hope they do a 180 and do the right thing here.
I'm hoping TomsHardware and the other partner review sites pose the question: "Why aren't you removing support for Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series chips in order to provide Ryzen 4000 series support on 300 and 400 series motherboards" to all of the AIBs so we can know if this is truly an explicit order from AMD to terminate support, or if it is just an excuse for the AIBs to sell more motherboards.
As for me, I just spent $300 on a 3700X 2 months ago after spending $465 on an 1800X 3 years ago. I have no plans whatsoever to upgrade my processor again anytime soon, but there are still a large number of people with Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series chips, especially 2000 series chips as they are still great sellers, and to block them an upgrade path arbitrarily is just...wrong.
I know you can make an argument for the new bios has to have the old support to flash the new one for many boards. You could easily however have a bios that only has 1xxx, 2xxx, or 3xxxx support plus the new gen and still fit it on the bios no issues. This is lazy at best.
Even their chart is wrong. It claims not ryzen 3xxx support exists for x350 and x370 boards. they sure don't get much right.
rhallock you have any comments to make before this blows up into a PR nightmare/
billy72 wrote: I remember the disastrous beginning with Ryzen 1000 and my X370, now I watch and enjoy the evolution ... that's the way aha aha ... I like it !!
I remember the disastrous beginning with Ryzen 1000 and my X370, now I watch and enjoy the evolution ... that's the way aha aha ... I like it !!
I had lots of trouble with my older RAM but I was more focused on the X570 now for the last 9 months or so with 32GB of RAM and a Ryzen 3000 series processor which seems to have become more stable than the X470 could achieve.
I have to use a GeForce card on the X470 as Radeon cards do not not seen to work right.
Some key points showing that AMD did in fact commit to supporting 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen AM4 boards and has now backtracked.
This one from this forum in May of 2019 for instance:
This is Erin Maiorino stating it would be supported THROUGH 2020 in May of 2019
"With the launch of the AM4 platform in 2016, we at AMD made a commitment to maintain and support socket AM4 through 2020."
Remember that that Ryzen 3XXX is not 3rd gen it is second. Ryzen 2XXX was zen+ and 3xxx is Zen 2, the first chips to use the upcoming third gen also are 7nm+ Zen 3 still not released.
This is AMD's roadmap slide from years ago and statement, also definitively, answering your question of the CPU's being claimed to be supported.
This discussion form 2017 discussion with James Prior AMD Senior Product Manager who claims that AM4 would be compatible with future processors along with an AMD furnished roadmap picture supplied by AMD, showing Zen 3 being supported back in 2017
"AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020
AMD Socket AM4 represents the company’s future-proof platform targeting the fastest DDR4 memory, PCIe® 3.0, and NVMe technologies available, as well as the first native USB 3.1 Gen2 support on a chipset. With processor-direct SATA and USB connectivity, configurable for real-world flexibility, the AM4 platform takes advantage of the leading-edge features of today, and tomorrow."
They made this commitment in 2016 speaking about the boards being released then.
To AMD's credit, AMD has a long history of supporting multiple generations of CPUs on the same socket.
In recent years AM2, AM2+, AM3 and AM3+ all supported multiple generations. Many AM2 boards even work with up to Phenom II (albeit not officially) processors, Heck AM3+ supported 6 generations not counting refreshes, of CPU's.
So why this stance at this time. Especially when so many would benefit from not having to spend another $100 bucks or more, when the whole world is hurting is beyond my comprehension.
As already said, maybe they really can't support every new processor in the Zen3 lineup on all boards, but they sure could do some on, some of the boards. If that wasn't possible then X570 support would not be possible either!
It is a choice not a fact.
A new motherboard makes prospective customers look at the competition, since they'd have to buy a new one anyway, as well as strongly dissuades owners of OEM license software from upgrading as the OEM license key is tied to the motherboard. Over this Covid-19 time period many of the reputable key seller websites, which sell OEM keys, have had great deals on Microsoft Office 2016/2019 and other products. Having to replace an Office key obtained from that medium may run $35 or more which, added to the total cost of upgrading after selling your old CPU and motherboard, may push the total cost of upgrading over $200, which weighs heavily against upgrading for anything less than a monumental increase in performance for most people.
Frankly one of the fundamental rules of sales is never give your customer a reason to look elsewhere. Not only do you lose one sale but maybe that guy like me is an IT manager and it influences decisions at corporate level too. This is such a bad decision made worse by the way they have presented, like they didn't backtrack and make it look like they didn't.
You know I think too that even on the Intel side I believe the upcoming board will be DDR 4 meaning you could even use your existing ram, for two more gens of CPUs. With AMD you will have to get a board and will only be good for one gen. Then the next board will be DDR5 with Zen4 and require new ram. On top of that if they do what the did with x570 it will be expensive and cheaper boards won't even be available for a whole year. So yah, they are making Intel look pretty good again.
Plus in the age of social media, all you have to be is an "influencer" and you could influence as many people as an IT manager, perhaps even more strongly because businesses don't often order the higher profit margin higher end components. This is compounded by the articles the reputable review sites do every time this situation comes around where a new motherboard is required for both teams they can do value calculations based solely on the CPU itself since motherboards from both companies generally have the same price ranges, and if they come out to the conclusion that Intel has the 1-4 core performance advantage and the advantage in gaming performance while AMD has the 5-16 core performance advantage, enthusiasts are again going to look at Intel because software still hasn't caught up to the core counts.
Honestly not to keep picking on AMD here and plenty of this reason has nothing to do with AMD's ability just the fact that their minimal market impact means more software is optimized for Intel, that also spells that generally the MB's have also been better. Frankly OEM's invest more in the bigger sellers.
AMD has dropped support for so many laptops and chipsets at times when Intel has not with their products of the same generation. In fact most of those from years ago are still trucking along on Intel while the AMD stuff has long been antiquated. Intel already has such a perceived preference in the corporate world and in most cases for good reason.
AMD just doesn't seem to know how to stop giving itself black eyes. For every great thing they do, and Ryzen really is a gem, they negate it with stupid decisions and poor support.
Even with all the Intel specific vulnerabilities, from Meltdown and its variants to IntelME, but Intel gives sweetheart deals to the OEMs to keep them using their CPUs, likely still gives away their mobile CPUs for free, and with all the OEMs advertising "Intel Inside" for all these years if you asked the average person if they'd choose an Intel or AMD laptop, they'd likely say Intel even if it were slower based on pure name recognition.
Also if you look at the offerings for Intel and AMD laptops, AMD holds the low end garbage models with their E series, and you can say some of the higher end models with the Ryzen 4000 series, but it seems like all of the models in between are compromised in a way that Intel models aren't.
Remember at the end of last year when Microsoft released their Surface Laptop 3 with both AMD and Intel offerings? Perfect example. To get at the same price as the Intel i7 model you had to choose a Ryzen 5 and Windows 10 Home, which meant you had much lower performance and lower battery life. To get equal performance you'd have to pay $300 more, and that's just insane.
I refuse to even entertain buying an AMD laptops do to AMD's history of horrid support of their graphics on them. Most I have had loses support before the hardware is really obsolete. Only one laptop an old Turion with discrete graphics can run Windows 10. I have 7 of them in a stack at work that can't run Windows 10, yet have many other Intel laptops that are older still run with no issue. My only saving grace with a few of those old laptops is that since they are locked into old versions of OS's they can be useful if I need to use an old OS. Luckily I had bought very few AMD machines as a whole. Had I bought them in the numbers I did Intel machines and then had to replace them before projections, it could have cost me my job. The shame is that this tradition seems to be continuing as you read complaint after complaint of the AMD laptops not working right with switchable graphics still. You can bet that do to that, support will drop quick on them too.
Could always turn them into hardware firewalls
Those reading this thread may also want to read this thread: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards
I have been on twitter discussing B550 and CPU compatibility. Somebody posted an R3 1200 running on a Crosshair VIII X570.
Exactly, many boards have run processors they don't officially support. If a 570 can support a Zen 1 chip that it supposedly doesn't support, and support the upcoming Zen 3, then older boards should be able to support chips of the same core counts and wattage on Zen 3 too, period.
This situation could be the saved with a use at your own risk bios even. Or even a rebate for buying a new board to make up for the support promise not being kept.
More so just an honest admission that we are not keeping our commitment and here is why, could have been palatable. Instead of trying to spin it like they are doing what they said, and this was always the plan. Worst using a board as an example of compatibilty, the B550 that isn't even released yet. I'd sure hope it will support Zen 3, if not who is it for!
You can find so many examples of what they really said over and over out on the net and in the archives or their own site.
pokester wrote: Exactly, many boards have run processors they don't officially support. If a 570 can support a Zen 1 chip that it supposedly doesn't support, and support the upcoming Zen 3, then older boards should be able to support chips of the same core counts and wattage on Zen 3 too, period.This situation could be the saved with a use at your own risk bios even. Or even a rebate for buying a new board to make up for the support promise not being kept. More so just an honest admission that we are not keeping our commitment and here is why, could have been palatable. Instead of trying to spin it like they are doing what they said, and this was always the plan. Worst using a board as an example of compatibilty, the B550 that isn't even released yet. I'd sure hope it will support Zen 3, if not who is it for!You can find so many examples of what they really said over and over out on the net and in the archives or their own site.
This why I shared this off my site, how much is a r3 1200 vs the motherboard
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