67 Replies Latest reply on Nov 8, 2018 1:07 PM by idontget-it

    Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?

    dan6erbond

      This is both a rant and a cry for help as I recently bought an HP EliteBook 755 G5 with the Ryzen 7 PRO 2700U and have been dealing with endless issues that couldn't be fixed (yet) even after contacting AMD and HP. HP claims that they will be able to fix the issue by replacing some hardware components but I've been convinced that these are driver-related issues after a ridiculous amount of time wasted on driver installing and testing...

      I don't really know how one could do this, but it's clear that letting OEMs distribute the drivers for Ryzen Mobile was a terrible idea as my testing has shown that AMD's drivers are significantly better (even though unstable) compared to those from HP, which are several months old and have terrible performance.

      I also want to thank /u/brokemyacct for all his help over the past posts I've made and ultimately inspiring me to make this post which I will crosspost, post on different platforms and show AMD to hopefully grab their attention and get this issue sorted out one way or another. If you guys have issues as well (even if you're using a system from a different manufacturer) feel free to use this post and contact whoever you can so AMD can finally come back to their senses and give us the drivers directly instead of forcing the OEMs (who frankly have no idea) to "optimize" and distribute the drivers.

      As I've only had this laptop for about 5 weeks and counting, I was only able to test 3 driver versions and here were my results:

      17.7 (from HP):

      • VLC crashes
      • occassionally Windows Movies/Photos crashes
      • Adobe programes don't properly detect HW
      • GTA's resolution can't be changed to 1600x900 on both a 4K monitor and the laptop's monitor
      • lackluster performance compared to 18.10.2
      • reported clock speed is 201MHz
      • GPU is reported as Radeon(TM) RX Vega 10 in both the Task Manager and AMD Radeon Settings

      18.5.1 (from AMD):

      • non-stop screen flickering
      • couldn't test performance or check/change settings because the flickering was that bad
      • GTA's resolution can't be changed to 1600x900 on both a 4K monitor and the laptop's monitor

      18.10.2 (from AMD):

      • occassional screen flickering
      • random system freezing requiring a reboot and resulting in possible data loss
      • GTA's resolution can't be changed to 1600x900 on both a 4K monitor and the laptop's monitor
      • GPU is reported as RadeonT RX Vega 10
      • reported clock speed is 1300MHz
      • exceptional performance in games and regular workloads
      • GPU is recognized correctly by all tested programs

      If I think of anything more, I'll be sure to add it. Currently I'm using the 17.7 drivers because those seem to be most stable, but I really hate not being able to use VLC and lackluster performance I'm getting from a system with so much potential. I really would've loved to stick to the 18.10.2 drivers which except for the crashing are amazing... I hope this post, or someone else's post gets recognized by one of the companies and brings them to their senses, hopefully resulting in AMD distributing the drivers for Vega Mobile directly on their website instead of us getting outdated drivers from the OEMs.

      This post will definetly land on AMD's support forums, LTT forums and anywhere else I can think of. Feel free to link this anywhere, it's not about the credits but us consumers actually getting decently stable systems and not this crap.

       

      Link to original post on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9ug1f5/hpamd_driver_support_for_ryzen_mobile_is_terrible/

        • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
          goodplay

          Instead of spamming the web, shouldn't you be encouraging people to push the laptop manufacturer/s to do something.

          Perhaps ask them what their policy is on driver updating for their product.

          Are they requesting updated drivers from amd/intel/nv ..

          • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
            bryannitro

            screw it one sec I need to turn off and flip over. just do this. you will be so happy with your laptop...

            • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
              bryannitro

              I used aluminum foil tape thicker the better, if you can find some with a high grade thermal adhesive also a plus.

               

              up to 25% more power vs prior untouched hardware config and 100% stability at factory spec settings... all day every day inside and outside.

              15% more overclock ability.

               

              my findings are based off physical experience.

               

              before: throttle to .9 ghz during pubg at 20-25fps at 95c inside room after only 20min of 1080p play.

               

              after: no throttle 3.2Ghz 50-60fps float at 720p, 40-50fps at 1080p, you can play until you rear end hurts...

              only throttle that occurs is when the 130watt power supply is starting to squeal then I get AC power supply error reports. I just need to get a xps 230watt powersupply.

               

              thermal mapping I was able to find the hottest spots on the motherboard pcb and its hottest components.

               

              must shim GPU/CPU die pad surface, and washer to the spring screws to add tension force to insure complete die pad heatsink contact, hot pockets add instability and to my spare tire...

               

              Add heat spreaders and shields. helps prevent washout of your mosfets, MOs box, load line diodes, rectifiers.

               

              IMG_20181107_084442.jpg

              Put heat spreaders on your ram and PCB southbridge.

              IMG_20181107_084507.jpg

              Make sure every heat source has a heat spreader, also put a foil heat pipe on the wifi card 12mbs

              IMG_20181107_084400.jpg

               

               

              give it a shot.

                • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                  idontget-it

                  very clever solution may work, however not the ideal solution for our situation.  the thermal barrier being hit is software based.  i replaced the thermal paste and my temps are 75C-80C under full load, its not allowed to get any hotter and OEM systems have very poor power management and balancing, improperly throttling CPU and GPU in my opinion which does not directly help with thermals as much as they thing as these APUs will continue to try their darndest to boost even while being power starved which still generates heat..

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                      • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                        idontget-it

                        i replaced my thermal compound already with Kryonaut. the issue is the thermal balance and tuning sucks, AMD needs to come out with something to manage the SMU better and more balanced as well hopefully built into drivers or as a ryzen master mobile feature because 99% of the laptops have no SMU management program they usually use "OEM profile" in drivers, and the only 1 i found that does offer SMU tuning (HP) does a real bad job at it.

                         

                        here is what i have noticed on 2 of the machines i played with, matebook D (limited time with) and X360.. as thermals rise, around 75 the GPU is then throttled a bit.  doesn't matter where that 75C was read at, CPU or GPU DIode anywhere on the package.  but even so, the GPU will be power throttled to try to clock it down, but the CPU will continue to recieve full power and hold clocks or actually continue to boost.   in fact, SOCKET0 VDDC rail power is still measured around 30-32 watts real power until the STAPM limit is hit then socket0 VDDC rail holds at STAPM limit.. this proves really poor management of power and thermal design limits. all this on stock paste makes sense, but these APUs are supposed to be able to self manage.. but they arent properly doing so and being as SMU is exposed port that software can tap into and tune, AMD should release a utility to better auto manage this with better balance..  the few thermal tuning tools that do exist, primarily HP's thermal profiles are horribly unbalanced.

                         

                         

                        overall sustained workload performance was very similar between all of these, even though huge thermal differences! this is clearly poor management going on here, specially once hitting Kryonaut and liquid metal compounds, i have a ton more thermal headroom compared to OEM, and still stuck at an artificial limit. when i contact OEMs they point fingers at AMD or offer a replacement.

                         

                        these all done using power virus test of Prime95 small FFT + GPU Burner of Furmark to get absolute peaks

                         

                        stock paste:  peak 95C

                         

                        MX-4 paste: peak 92C

                         

                        Kryonaut compound: peak 84C

                         

                        conductonaut (liquid metal): peak 80C

                         

                        if i use a short burst test, like Cinebench R15 multi core, Conductonaut barely touched mid 60C range about 65C give or take where as stock pastes are actually hammering into low 80C range.

                      • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                        bryannitro

                        after these mods, you will see an instant boost, because the system is tuning itself , similar to a car's OBDII tryin and failin and recording the successes and using them accordingly, our computers do the same, I just found out that by cooling the power system it overclocked itself, almost 10% with super smooth transitioning.

                        • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                          bryannitro

                          that was another thing I found out, when we undervolt we actually make it run hotter on the inside, so its better to leave it alone maybe give it a .5+v for stability,

                           

                          but I'm pretty sure you need to put the head spreaders on your ram, and setup a custom fan that actually works...

                           

                           

                          so the laptops go 100% until 95c of 105c is reached then it throttles down,  by doing all the cooling mods, you are combating its tuned system to stay ramped up because if you can cool it enough it will stay in lvl 3 powephase, before any mods you might get 60Fps for maybe 10 to 20 min then it will drop to 30 - 40 fps, so after the mods you will get full 60FPS maybe even more, just make sure you watch your new cooling system for if it fails it will melt your laptop. lol whoops.

                            • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                              idontget-it

                              do you even have a Raven Ridge mobile APU?  to me doesn't appear you got one because no offense, you seem a bit clueless on the matter that is specific to this, what you are saying is mostly correct with other devices but these APUs are not the same there is something inherently wrong here and i feel like the OEMs are to blame.  ..  this issue is very complicated and surprisingly different i believe the OEMs are not allowing these APUs to automatically manage themselves. the tuning on these laptops is very specific to what appears to be, stock setup, even if i manage my thermals correctly, if anywhere on the die touches 75C the GPU suffers doesn't matter what part of the package that was if it was on other side of the die or not.. doesn't even matter if the CPU was primary cause of the thermal runaway or the GPU..either case the GPU targeted for power throttling. example.. say i i do a 4K video..barely uses my GPU only clocking up to like 500mhz then i run prime95 small FFT on the CPU while watching that video, the CPU nails 75C the GPU will be forced down to 350 mhz but the cpu will continue to hold clocks or even increase its boost.

                               

                              my thermals appear to be properly managed, my memory according to my flir thermal camera set to low emissivity setting (since the memory is black and not reflective) shows peaks temps around 70C, totally fine, not even unhappy with that.  measuring around power rails with medium low emissivity settings of the flir camera im setting SOC VDDCR rail is barely even warmer than the ground plans on the motherboard not even mosfets are hot, tells me barely in use.   the SOCKET0 VDDC rail specifically the mosfets is around 80C peak, again totally fine, they its rated to handle many more amps at up to 125C and with the back of the case on the machine, the fan is pulling air past them, so they are getting cool air blown over them, so im not worried in the least.

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                        • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                          bryannitro

                          ALL -=REDTEAM=- HERE

                          <BE GREATER THAN>

                          don't want to be less then.

                           

                          we have the capability.

                          stop fighting.

                            • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                              ray_m

                              This is a discussion in the Drivers & Software forum regarding drivers for a laptop.

                               

                              It has nothing to do with modding the hardware. If you wish to discuss hard mods, you can open your own topic in the General Discussions forum.

                               

                              All further off topic posts will be rejected.

                                • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                                  idontget-it

                                  can we have a constructive convo with AMD on these issues please than?  because these issues are killing AMD's brand image, guys at best buy pointing to MX130 laptops over Vega 10 and Vega 8 options because of driver and thermal management issues and completely lack of care form AMD, multiple best buys i been to and not a single person even with AMD lanyards recommending these laptops, they were saying "driver situation and power/thermal management situation levs a lot to be desired"   ya know what, sadly, i agree...

                                  • Re: Why do Raven Ridge Mobile APUs not get any love?
                                    dan6erbond

                                    As the author of this post I'm going to agree with you and have to confess that I got pretty confused when those two started mumbling about hardware modifications when my question was clearly about AMD releasing drivers directly on their website to help consumers get over those god-awful, old drivers the OEM offers.