25 Replies Latest reply on Oct 23, 2017 12:41 PM by kahless_uk

    RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL

    mirlo2hu

      I've been regretting more and more purchasing the RX480 because of how baffling the performance of this card is for relatively old and less demanding titles.

      I used to have a GTX960 and all of my older titles ran at the very least 100+fps on max settings.

      Titles such as Dragon's Dogma, A Hat in Time and Skyrim all struggle to maintain even 60fps on my RX480 at ANY setting, in fact, they struggle to even hit 30fps at times.

      And emulating is also a struggle compared to the GTX960.

       

      Here are my current system specs:

      Windows 10 (64-bit)

      ASUS AMD RX480 8GB Model (latest drivers)

      12GB RAM

      i5 2405S @2.5ghz (3ghz turbo boost)

      1tb HDD

      128 GB SSD

       

      I've done several driver wipes to see if it was a driver problem and it wasn't.

      New AAA games run absolutely fine with my RX480.

       

      I cannot believe the RX480 is performing so poorly with older titles.

      If this is what I get for purchasing an AMD card, I'll rethink my future purchases from now on.

        • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
          ray_m

          This is to be expected.

          Current graphics cards will be optimized for AAA titles.


          Additionally, even though an older game may use DX9, DX9 components are frequently updated which may cause issues unless the legacy title is updated as well.

          4 of 8 people found this helpful
            • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
              mirlo2hu

              I cannot accept that answer.

              If a recently released graphics card is incapable of running games from 2011 at an acceptable framerate, then it's not worth it.

              Please, give us better support for these titles.

              Skyrim is still being played to this day, yet my RX480 struggles to run it.

              I've revised the issue and I know exactly why dx9 and opengl games struggle on the RX480.

              I checked the GPU usage while playing on older APIs, and more often than not, the GPU usage is at 0%.

              Please fix this.

               

              Here's my gpu usage while playing A Hat in Time.

              https://i.imgur.com/7Buy3o2.png

              1 of 1 people found this helpful
              • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                supervargen

                "This is to be expected."  Really?? Good one Ray.

                 

                Old games either works or not. Granted, some games get some graphical glitches if they are really really old and still starts.

                But what TS is talking about is not compatibility issues.

                Care to explain why so many newer graphics cards AMD/nvidia don't have the same problem as TS?

                It's the first time i hear that one should expect lower performance in Skyrim.

                 

                If you are right Ray, then it should say on the graphic cards box something like this: Beware, your older games will run slower.

                1 of 2 people found this helpful
              • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                kahless_uk

                Can't speak for the other games as I don't own them but Skyrim (original not SE) should have no problem at all running at 1080p60 on max settings with a RX 480, however, Skyrim has a ton of CPU overhead, I used to play it on a FX 4170, then an FX 8350 and they both got me 60fps 98% of the time and neither of those CPUs beat the single thread performance of yours on paper, so something else must be going wrong somewhere. Have you tried using an overlay like MSI afterburner to monitor CPU and GPU use during play?

                  • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                    kahless_uk

                    Ok, I went and rolled back SkyrimSE to Oldrim and gave it a go with afterburner and rtss running and I got a solid 60fps on max settings at 1080p no problem, CPU use never exceeded 10% and my RX 480's core clock never went over 800mhtz (unlike SkyrimSE which regularly pushes it upto 1266 but still keeps up 60fps) although I did regularly see GPU use at 0% it spent most of it's time at 99%.

                     

                    I also went and installed some old IDTech 3 based OpenGL games (only OpenGL games I have) and they all hit max res 60fps no problem except Return to Castle Wolfenstein which needed GLDirect (an OpenGL to D3D wrapper) to run properly.

                     

                    Just for context I'm running a Ryzen 7 1700 at stock clocks and a Powercolor Rx 480 8GB also at stock with 16GB of DDR4 and Windows 10 x64 and driver 17.9.3.

                     

                    Do you have Radeon Chill enabled? It does support Oldrim and it will cut your framerate hard to keep temps down (although I didn't test this as I don't use it).

                     

                    Also what emulators are you trying to use? I use PCSX2 and Dolphin both without problems in D3D11 mode but they both struggle in OpenGL.

                      • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                        mirlo2hu

                        I've used MSI and Rivatuner to monitor usage.

                        CPU usage almost never goes above 50% but GPU usage fluctuates a lot during gameplay on DX9/OpenGL games.

                        I wanted to play A Hat in Time, which is a Unreal Engine 3 game, using DX9, not a very demanding game, but at any setting it struggles to get good performance.

                        From what I've seen on the steam forums, I'm not the only one having this issue, and this issue recurs on any last-gen game.

                        https://i.imgur.com/axbVtn5.png

                        As for Skyrim, my frames drop below 60 quite often.

                        It doesn't matter if I'm on vanilla Skyrim or have mods on it.

                        Here's a video of someone playing Skyrim on an RX480:

                        RX 480 | FX-8320 Skyrim w/ ENB - Realvision FULL (+ Other Mods) (1080p60FPS) - YouTube

                        To be clear, older graphics cards are able to perform better even with ENB or other graphics enhancers.

                        And this performance is typical on my unmodded Skyrim as well.

                          • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                            kahless_uk

                            50% on a quadcore typically means that two threads are maxed out, even if all four cores are being used (windows 10 uses windows 8's thread scheduler and will bounce threads around) If you're seeing 50% usage at the same time as a framerate drop then that's your problem right there, render threads stalling on the CPU and holding back the GPU (classic CPU bottlenecking).

                             

                            I've also noticed that the power efficiency toggle in Crimson drivers can stifle framerates when vsync is enabled in some games particularly those that don't tax the GPU much as it simply doesn't realise it's being asked to do lots of 3D work and doesn't ramp up it's P-States (the giveaway here is that GPU clocks stay well below the 1266 boost clock, maybe even below 500 even though GPU use reads at 99-100%) the solution is to either run without vsync or toggle off power efficiency when running that game

                      • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                        dreamager

                        Both versions of Skyrim run great on mine, although I don't use SE because the original +mods looks/functions better

                        • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                          kashona

                          yea, im so disappointed how bad rx480 runs on older games. worse than gtx 960 which is pathetic...

                            • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                              ivonik

                              The Witcher 2 is the same case .
                              The game NEVER goes above 30 FPS (for some weird reason it locks itself up to the lowest refresh rate reported by the monitor)

                              NoVideo (that is how I call the green team) have
                              GeForce experience to fix this - we ...

                              We have broken drivers for over 6 months .....    

                               

                              And I was thinking to get a Ryzen CPU - now , chances of this happening  - less than 0% - I prefer resurrecting The Old Master (X58 with a 2010 6-core Xeon)
                              than buying whatever is currently available from both camps - one does not know how to solder IHS to the CPU , the other camp - still can't figure out why clock-speed matters , and on top of that has completely tanked in the GPU department ( apart from selling cards to miners) .

                               

                              It is a disgrace how terrible the current state of affairs regarding GPU drivers is

                            • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                              mirlo2hu

                              Untitled.jpg

                              This is a fairly undemanding game.

                              Can't even get 60fps on even Standard settings.

                              This is just sad.

                              • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                daggerfall

                                A Hat in Time and Skyrim all struggle to maintain even 60fps on my RX480 at ANY setting, in fact, they struggle to even hit 30fps at times.

                                About Skyrim, I already reported that, it does not depend on card (lags on 7950 and 7770/7750), I have 60 fps(maximum for skyrim, if that count higher than 60 fps physic model will start to lag) in most cases on Athlon 840, it running not so bad but, I have lags in some interiors even with AMD-FX 8350. I must said with core i3 2120 and 7750 I have less lags in interiors. I does not have interiors (caves,houses,forts,selfbuilded houses) lags with geforce 730 gt gddr5 and on all my nvidia cards too. Performance seems degraded much, but for skyrim you can try 16.11.5.

                                I'm gonna bring up this video again:

                                RX 480 | FX-8320 Skyrim w/ ENB - Realvision FULL (+ Other Mods) (1080p60FPS) - YouTube

                                This guy is using an rx480 with an FX-8320, a largely better CPU than what I'm currently using.

                                Look at those framerates and tell me if it's reasonable to say that it's a GPU driver problem than a CPU problem.

                                With mods? I do not recommend to use that video for any benchmarking.

                                • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                  enormouschunks

                                  I am not certain what kind of Candyland world you guys live in here.

                                  Direct X9 is now 4 versions behind and utilize old technology. Graphics are optimized for future games and AAA titles because as a serious gamer I want the best fps in AAA games.

                                    I don't care about Skyrim or Candyland XXL with emulators and most people here don't either. That is why new graphic cards are not created to play those.

                                   


                                  You can refuse the answers and call them not acceptable but wanting a driver to be made for a 6 year old game is ridiculous.

                                  • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                    kingfish

                                    Just a wild idea...but have you tried running the game in compatibility mode?

                                    • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                      mirlo2hu

                                      I rolled back to 16.11.5

                                      Got marginally better FPS.

                                      20171015151524_1.jpg

                                      Anyone knows what are the earliest drivers I can roll back to?

                                      • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                        dreamager

                                        Are you guys sure you haven't got Radeon Chill turned on?  My Skyrim runs at a constant 60fps with it off, and with it turned on drops down to 30-40fps in non-action areas. This is with all visual settings and anti-aliasing on max, and with an old i5-760 at stock speeds (using steams fps counter, not fraps)

                                        1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                        • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                          kahless_uk

                                          I've tried a few Unreal Engine 3 DX9 games now as well (and even a DX7 Unreal Engine one!) and I simply can't reproduce your problem, everything runs just fine with the ONLY problems being a result of WIndows 10 x64 (mostly 16bit installer issues) and the aforementioned Return to Castle Wolfenstein needing a wrapper to work.

                                           

                                          The closest I can get to framerates as bad as yours is with power efficiency and Radeon Chill both enabled while using vsync, and even then it's not struggling as much as yours. I just don't know what could be causing it for you except those two settings and or residual Nvidia driver junk causing issues.

                                          • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                            mirlo2hu

                                            An update.

                                            I did a clean install of Windows 10 and used the drivers found on my disk.

                                            Performance is better than before, but I still cannot hit 60 fps on a lot of DX9 titles.

                                            If it really is my CPU bottlenecking on older titles, I will post an update.

                                            This problem is not seen on newer titles with my current build.

                                            I will be upgrading to an i5 6600k later this year from my i5 2405S.

                                              • Re: RX480 poor support for Dx9 and OpenGL
                                                kahless_uk

                                                I had a go at A Hat In Time, it ran mostly at 60fps with everything set to ultra, it only started dropping frames when lots of transparent particles were present (like when you discover a time piece) and on the "wide shots" in some cutscenes (when the camera pans out to show you more of the level ahead). It barely tickled the Ryzen CPU and only pressured the RX 480 in the aforementioned moments.

                                                 

                                                I did discover with some google-fu that the beta versions of this game were terrible and that the full release version, while much better, still has a lot of problems, shadows and depth of field appear to be the culprits