23 Replies Latest reply on Jun 16, 2017 4:56 PM by jakethedog

    ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle

    jakethedog

      Hi guys, I've recently purchased my ryzen 1600 with an asrcok ab350m pro4. The cpu runs fine at 3.5GHz with 1.12v, the problem is that vcore and clock don't drop in idle, on the contrary keeping the cpu on auto settings everything works perfectly.

      AMD cool 'n quiet is enabled, i tried to edit the pstate but it was useless, it looks like the cpu remains always in pstate 0.

      Talking with some friends of mine, it looks like a common problem on b350, is it a confirmed bug? Is there any hope for a solution in new BIOS?

      Thanks for the help!

        • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
          jigzaw

          What power plan are you in. If it is at High performance, it will hardly clock down as you have set as your default clock and overrides any power saving features on the chip. If you set it at Balance Ryzen it will clock down but the monitoring software hardly catches the process as the Balance Ryzen is optimize to quickly respond to any load that needs to be addressed. Lowering the minimum CPU speed to 70% on Balanced Ryzen power plan will address your concerns.

           

          I am also using the same board with a R7 1700. There were articles on youtube on PC states from TechCity. P0 at the clock you have set 3500 and P1 at a lower clk for idle, P2 at a much lower clock level for power saving. Leave the rest untouched.

           

          Just not that if you set the multiplier /clock speed, the turbo max or boost will be disabled.

            • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
              jakethedog

              Hi jigzaw, thanks for the reply. I'm using the normal windows balanced profile, because the ryzen balanced one isn't there even though I've already installed chipset driver 17.10. I edited the first three state as you mentioned:

              - p0 --> 3500MHz, 1.1875v

              - p1 --> 1550MHz, 0.9000v

              - p2 --> 400MHz, 0.0000v

              the others are disbled, but unfortunately nothing has changed.

              Anyway, is your cpu idling correctly with the b350m pro4?

                • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                  jigzaw

                  I just left my system at auto as I only tried once to set the clock manually and tried to figure is I can tweak the boost clock as what I did with the previous FX cpus. Well it can't be done with ryzen though as Admatt stated in one of the treads that I inquired about it. I left my system as simple as it gets as I use my system for work. Experimentation is fun and exciting at first but I have to move on as it is working excellent for my needs.

                   

                  The P1 and P2 setting is way to low and it will stall the cpu. The reason why it not working is it is beyond specs. See how it works on auto and from there you can see the range it operates with cool and quiet.

                  R7 1700CPUID HWmon.png

                  I did a custom power plan from the high performance setting and some features from the balanced so my system can sleep after an hour left unused or un attended.

                  Custom Workstation HP power option.png

                    • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                      jakethedog

                      So you are saying that even your cpu doesn't drop vcore and clock in idle if you set manual clocks and voltages, am i right? However i don't understand how possibly it can't be done on ryzen, when I know for sure that with x370 boards all works perfectly, it seems to me more like a b350 issue.

                      Moreover the p1 state is exactly the state reached by the cpu left on auto settings when idling, thus I don't think it is a matter of working beyond specs.

                      The point is not having fun tweaking, all right in some part it is, but rather optimizing the voltage needed by the cpu, and consider the case I wanted to overclock the cpu up to 4GHz. I will probably need 1.3+v, but it is absurd having the cpu forced constantly at 1.3v when you are doing nothing.

                      I would like to know if it is officially not possible on b350 boards, or if it will be possible in future, I've already wrote to asrock but they aren't answering .

                      However thanks for the suggestion jigzaw, I will try to edit the powerplan.

                    • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                      jigzaw

                      This values for PStates from TechCity, it uses hex values:

                      @How to Overclock Ryzen - R7-1800x, 1700x & 1700 | Bios Overclocking Guide - YouTube

                       

                      *Also note you may have to up the SoC voltage to level of up to - 1.2v (my R7-1700 retail needed 1.065ish volts to get to 4ghz with memory OCs) depending on your CPU if you are heavily overclocking the memory too.

                       

                      Values for P State Overclocking -

                      FID (Clock Speed) 90 - 3600mhz, 91 = 3625, 92 = 3650, 93 = 3675, 94 = 3700, 95 = 3725, 96 = 3750, 97 = 3775, 98 = 3800, 99 = 3825,

                      9a = 3850, 9b = 3875, 9c = 3900, 9d = 3925, 9e = 3950, 9f = 3975

                      a0 = 4000, a1 = 4025 (my max sweetspot OC), a2 = 4050, a3 = 4075, a4 = 4100, a5 = 4125, a6 = 4150, a7 = 4175, a8 = 4200 = a9 = 4225, aa = 4250, ab = 4275, ac = 4300, ad = ugh you win the lottery.

                       

                      Values for DID (Increment adjustment adjuster and or bclk adjustments, not too sure what it does TBH, as I found an overclock that I was already comfortable with and have not spent much time with this yet, though looking at it more closely, here are the values) - 8 = 25 mhz increments, 9 =22.2196, a = 20 b = 18.18, c = 16.667, d (final recommendation) = 15.384mhz - 3943mhz cap).

                       

                      Values for VID Voltage Control = 30 = 1.25v, 2f = 1.256v, 2e, 1.2562v, 2d = 1.268, 2c = 1.275v, 2b = 1.2812v, 2a = 1.287v, 29 = 1.293v, 28 = 1.3v, 27 = 1.3062v, 26 = 1.3125v, 25 = 1.318v, 24 = 1.325v, 23 = 1.3312v, 22 = 1.3375v, 21 = 1.343v, 20 = 1.35v, 1f = 1.356v, 1e = 1.3625v, 1d = 1.368v, 1c = 1.375v, 1b = 1.3812v, 1a = 1.3875v, 19 = 1.3937v, 18 = 1.4v, 17 = 1.406v, 16 = 1.4125v, 15 = 1.418v, 14 = 1.425v, 13 = 1.4321v, 12 = 1.4375v, 11 = 1.443v, 10 = 1.45v, *next set is from f - a, 9 - 9 (1.45 - 1.55v), though be very careful overclocking in this voltage range*.

                  • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                    technostyle

                    Honestly I didn't read all comments above.
                    Choose power plan "Balanced" (not Ryzen balanced, Windows standard balanced plan)

                    Set settings like this:
                    Max CPU freq: 0 Mhz
                    Lowest CPU : %0
                    Highest CPU : %100

                    System cooling: active.
                    balanced.jpg

                    CPUID HW Monitor sometimes shows false values. (You saw 1.9 V for CPU core voltage in idle)
                    For example, when idle, my CPU draws 12-13 Watts but it can show 80 Watts. Problem can solve with restarting the PC.

                    • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                      gigabytes

                      FYI, if you are using a manual overclock your cpu will never down clock or down volt. If you want a overclock to downclock you need to use P-States, either through BIOS or a utility like AsusZenStates. I have also found (at least on my rig) that the interaction between P-States and windows power plan is flaky to say the least. My advice is in windows power plan, set your max frequency, then set your minimum freq to 64% or below.

                       

                      ZS.jpg

                      Power.jpg

                      HW.jpg

                      19.5X is when the core is asleep, 22.0X is the core at rest and 39.0X is the core active. I also on occasion see 35.0X for brief instances with minor load on core.

                       

                      AsusZenStates only works on a Asus motherboard FYI.

                        • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                          ozozuz

                          Sorry but what are you saying is not correct at all.

                          The cpu is supposed to drop both the freq and voltage thanks to AMD Cool'n quiet and C6 State, you don't need p-state in order to achieve this.

                           

                          Btw, after many weeks MSI admitted that they forced the cstate+C&Q to partially disable "only freq will work" once you set a custom v-core in order to gain stability "clearly a bull**it".
                          I swapped motherboard with an AB350M Gaming 3 and now my v-core will fluctuate from 1.15v "thanks to offset" < - > 0.3v while moving from 3300mhz <->1500mhz "and this is a sub100€ motherboard."

                           

                           

                          MSI "but also many other B350 of other brand, even if they have p-state like the AB350 Pro4 from asrock" won't drop their voltage on idle, probably just to justify the difference in price from the X370 board

                            • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                              gigabytes

                              If you are manually overclocking the core frequency WILL NOT DOWNCLOCK (at least at this point in time), for downclocking your CPU MUST be set to AUTO. With a P-State overclock and proper power plan settings it will down clock.

                               

                              Furthermore, all the P-State bios I have ever seen you have to set the voltage to be used for the different P-States, when one of the P-State are used it will use the voltage configured for that P-State. I think you need to reevaluate your statement.

                                • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                  ozozuz

                                  The frequency WILL downclock at this point in time both at default and in overclock if you leave the C-State and the C&Q enabled, this happened both in the AB350 Gigabyte and in the B350M Mortar, this is not even the topic of this discussion since this work correctly even in b350 board that doesn't have p-state at all, if it doesn't work in your board doesn't mean that's this is how it's supposed to work.

                                  b191f0eae3eacc407deea4c9e081ae8a.png

                                  The problem is related to the voltage since the processor will not downvolt itself but as i discovered, this is "in our case" MSI fault.

                            • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                              gigabytes

                              Every board has P-States. If some manufacturers have enabled this for manual overclock yet voltages remain the same the question is probably best put to the manufacturer. Personally if I use a manual overclock in bios I would prefer it to stay at that frequency because of the response time getting the core back to frequency. But that is just me.

                               

                              I would check your core voltages with the new version of HWinfo. Some monitoring software was buggy and showing a constant Vcore not even picking up Vdroop changes. But if your mobo manufacturer is admitting they have issues, obviously you will need to wait for new bios.

                               

                              My system is working perfectly fine, I control my overclock and core voltages from desktop and can switch or disable on the fly, the way it should be.

                               

                              Something else you can try is using offset voltage instead of manual voltage.

                                • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                  ozozuz

                                  Again, no, not every board let you control p-state "we are NOT talking about having p-state or not, and leaving everything at auto", we al talking about tuning or overclock.
                                  Again, using a "manual overclock" have no relation with the problem we are talking about, the problem occurs once you set a custom value for the v-core, both at stock freq or during oc, and yes, as i told before many times it's a choince of the manyfactuers "msi, asork in this case" do disable half of the feature of cstate and c&q since, again, what i say came from an OFFICIAL statement from MSI "and i assume same things for asrock", nothing to argue about.

                                   

                                  I'm not saying that your sistem is not working fine, i don't even know what board are you using, but if you have a b350 and BOTH voltage and freq are not dropping in idle, you are missing half of a very important feature, just because it's not important for someone doesn't mean it's not a key feature.

                                    • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                      gigabytes

                                      Every motherboard uses P-States to control the CPU Frequency.  Do you think it pure magic that downclocks a CPU? For your education not every board has that functionality available to the user. My X370 PRO does not show P-States in bios but I use P-States via software. No idea why you are so argumentative but you have been wrong in every case except when you specifically speak of the fail that is your board what was it a MSI or Gigabyte. The two worse mobo manufacturers on the planet.

                                        • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                          ozozuz

                                          From your first statement i can see that you didn't understand a single word.
                                          By p-state overclock we CLEARLY are referring to the possibility that some motherboard give to the user to EDIT p-state, dropping freq and voltage is OBVIOUSLY due to the p-state, we are not even talking about such a basic fact.
                                          You probably didn't wrote a single correct thing, starting from the "the cpu freq is not supposed to drop"  but hey, internet is accessible for everyone but at least do not act like you know anything about what we are saying.

                                            • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                              gigabytes

                                              You state not every motherboard has P- States when in fact every motherboard has P-States just some do not make it available to the user cause it is considered a "feature" for high end motherboards. You were wrong.

                                               

                                              The VID voltage has reported by the CPU is used by the motherboard so it knows what voltages are required by the CPU for the different P-States in auto mode. In Ryzens case this is based on its XFR frequencies.

                                               

                                              Here is a hint regarding your downclock voltage issues. Think about the VID voltages and the fact you probably have your Vcore set manually to supply enough voltage to overclock all cores (not just one core with XFR). When you finally figure it out come back here and lick my boots.

                                                • Re: ryzen 1600, vcore and clock don't drop in idle
                                                  ozozuz

                                                  P-State is not something that you cannot have, then the logic consequence of this is that we are talkig about the possibility to set custom value for the p-state "like on the Pro4" that instead IS a feature, you were wrong again but hey, my fault, i was sure that you would be able to undestand such a simple point.

                                                   

                                                  The fact that you started talking about the VID clearly show that you are missing the point of the problem we are talking about and i mean, missing by a lot.
                                                  The funny fact is that this is a very very basic fact to undersand, i still can't figure how you can't undestand it.

                                                   

                                                  Edit:
                                                  Since at this point i'd like to see how stupid you can be i'd like to "like your boots" and try to explain you the point with some pictures, if it's still hard i'll add a few animals and sparkles.
                                                  This is a picture of an overclocked Ryzen 5 1600 at 3.75ghz "approx" on the MORTAR that don't have p-state oc with C&Q + C6State enabled.
                                                  While the freq went down in idle, the voltage il stuck at the value you set, can you see it ?
                                                  3003515f4af84fcda67be086d61eeeab.png

                                                  Now, this is a AB350M Gaming 3 wich use the offset regulation, no p-state oc.

                                                  m0ycPTw0QP2IgVaRdo9cbw.png