16 Replies Latest reply on Nov 21, 2016 4:21 AM by sgtbilko

    What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?

    vegasecurea

      I was just wondering and intrigued. The world records set for highest overclocks from CPU-Z Validator World Records all use AMD chips (GO RED TEAM) and are reached only with liquid nitrogen. Even then its only lasts until the record is set. Afterwards the CPU is rendered unusable or destroyed.

       

      I was wondering if there was another cooling solution that is able to let the AMD CPU attain 9GHz and run stable 24/7 with the only requirements being able to fit in a 9x9 foot room and up to $10,000. So heat and power consumption would not be factors in such a solution.

       

      Like how much of an overclock would you get with something like this LD PC-V10 Phase Change - Black White - LD Cooling Computer Cases?

       

      I do not know the power draw of a 9GHz overclock but what about these... Koolance EX2-1055 (can handle 900W) or Koolance ERM-3K3UA (can handle 2700W)?

        • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
          adr_tech

          You also have to realize that the heat the CPU produces is not only on the heatspreader itself. The motherboard socket itself also gets very hot. Also, there is still a delay between cooling of the CPU to the actual heat produced as well. I'm sure that if someone where to push enough voltage through a CPU to run at a stable 9GHz, that the CPU would either burn out immediately, the metals inside the CPU die would melt, or the solder on the motherboard would melt. Its an interesting idea though, but its possible that the limitations of modern technology will stop this from being reality currently.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
              vegasecurea

              Delidding the CPU would be a must I would think, that way heat exchange is more direct and efficient. AMD CPUs have a maximum 90 degree Celsius limit of operational temps so that's a lot of headroom to work with. And I would think overclocking the FSB would yield better results albeit more fine tuning as opposed to multiplier overclocking. From what I have read multiplier overclocking is simpler but pulls more power and heat. While FSB OCing pulls less for the same overclock so you can achieve a higher overclock for the same amount of power and heat, but requires more... savvy.

               

              Does anyone out there have either...

              LD PC-V10 Phase Change - Black White - LD Cooling Computer Cases

              Koolance EX2-1055 or Koolance ERM-3K3UA?

               

              I'd like to find out how high of a stable overclock you have achieved. Thanks in advance.

               

                • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                  adr_tech

                  Adjusting the FSB too much would change many components on the motherboard, and isn't really recommended unless you REALLY know what you're doing. Also, I think even if the CPU was de-lidded, the rate that the die would be cooled would most likely be slower than the rate in which the CPU is heating up. Also, to push the required amount of voltage to a CPU to keep it stable would require possible a custom PSU, Motherboard, and maybe even CPU

                    • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                      vegasecurea

                      I'm running my FX-9590 stable at 4.9GHz with just my FX Series AIO Liquid Cooler. Its a 120mm AIO originally packaged with the FX-8150 WAY back when, 2011 if I remember correctly (has the FX logo in LED!). Its ancient by tech standards but rated to handle up to 4.7-4.8GHz.Yet it handles my 4.9GHz like a champ!  I couldn't get past 4.8GHz if using the multiplier due to the heat. But OCing through the FSB yields better results for the same heat output, hence 4.9. Would have been fantastic to run its advertised speed at 5GHz on a single 120mm AIO. So close and yet so far. I am waiting for my Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate 360mm AIO now. I could have just went with a 240mm AIO but opt for the overclocking headroom the extra 120mms would give when I have the time to see how far of a stable overclock I can achieve. How much higher of a stable overclock do you think can be had from the 360mm I bought?

                       

                      I am happy AMD sells factory overclocked versions of their processors. I was one of those people who wanted to run an overclocked cpu but didn't want to do the legwork due to budget constraints, laziness, inconvenience, no time to, afraid to, or a combination thereof, lol. But after practicing and trial and error I'm more comfortable with leaving the safety zone and doing it myself.

                        • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                          kxuping

                          I completely share your opinion. I love to have two factory overclocked AMD FX 9590. That is a big plus. I started with a 8120->8350->9370->9590.

                           

                          What motherboard are you using?

                            • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                              vegasecurea

                              For me it was 8150 then straight to the flagship when it came out, lol. Since my 9590 purchase I have been using an Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z with Quadfire R9 295X2s, 2.88TB of combined AMD SSDs, 32GB of AMD RAM, and the AX1500i PSU. I don't remember what mobo I used for the 8150 though. But I just bought a GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 for the ability to have 4 GPUs (yes I also bought 2 more 295X2s as well as a 2000W PSU to replace the 1500W). Its not for mining, but for gaming and BOINC jobs to run Seti@home projects, for SCIENCE! When gaming 4 cores and Quadfire would be utilized while the other 4 cores and 2 295X2s would be utilized by BOINC. And when I'm away or asleep BOINC can utilize all cores and all gpus.

                               

                              The way BOINC projects work is each core is tasked with distributing data downloaded from the server, and delegates it to a gpu. Each core is paired with a gpu, 8 for 8. The gpu in turn processes the data given to it. Once done the paired cpu compiles it and sends it to SSDs for storage as local backup, and from there uploads to the server, while at the same time giving the gpu new data to process. Here you will see RAID 0 shine in all its speedy glory which is what I have setup, 6 in RAID 0, and 2: 1 for OS and essential programs, the other for games. You don't see much of if any benefit from RAID 0 for gaming and everyday use so its nice to see its potential being utilized fully, lol.

                               

                              I could have built two systems: a workstation and a gaming rig but the case I use is Lian-Li's DK-01 a combination of computer and desk. That just made me want to also combine the two systems into one, lol. That and it would cost more to build two separate systems I'm a minimalist so consolidating things into one is best.

                                • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                  kxuping

                                  I have both motherboards, the UD7 is rev 3.0. On the UD7 I could never make 4 dimms to work above 1333. 1, 2 or 3 can run 1866/2133 without problems (2133 max BIOS setting using XMP). I add the 4th dimm and it gives boot error unless ram clocked at 1333. Tried with a lot of ram Corsair Vengeance 1866, two sets of Gskill Trident X 2400 and even bought a another used UD7 rev 3.0, but the problem is the same. That is my main PC motherboard so I can have Quadfire (4x R9 290X).

                                  On the other side the Asus CHVFZ can run 4 dimms at 1866/2400 no problem at all. It can run Trifire (3 cards) at x8 PCIe. Some people at overclockers.net used a PCIe riser to run Quadfire of 7970 with crossfire bridge using the x4 PCIe from the southbridge. I couldnt find someone running a Quadfire (4 cards) setup on the CHVFZ with newer GPUS that didnt use crossfire bridge. Depending on the use of the 4th GPU you could use this route if you dont need x8 PCIe speed and a bit more latency. I dont know if you can still use Crossfire with more than 4 GPU on the same system, have you tested that?

                                  I know I could use two dual GPU card on the CHVFZ, but I already had the WC blocks and backplates for two cards when the  295x2 was released.

                                   

                                  Please share your experience with the UD7

                                    • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                      vegasecurea

                                      Well thanks for the heads up. I will be trying the UD7 soon. Just realized I didn't have anymore thermal paste so waiting on that, lol. Currently I am running Quadfire 295X2s on the CVFZ It works great and has only gotten better with each driver update. The CVFZ can't handle more than 4 gpus though. That's why I bought the UD7. I've seen someone who validated using 5 gpus (Fury Nanos) on the UD7 as well as another using 8 gpus (4 295X2s) on the UD7. But yes for gaming when you activate crossfire, at max 2 295X2s (4 gpus) will be used. Regardless of how many successfully installed gpus you have. I'm happy about that. Because that means I can use the others for more scientific endeavors. Killing two birds with one stone if you will

                                       

                                      One could try 5 pci-e risers for 5 295X2s (for a total of 10 gpus) but until AMD comes out with 10 or 12+ cores that extra 295X2 will go under utilized. Because gpus process data given to it by a core almost as fast as the core can store and delegate the data. So having extra gpus with no extra cores would have to share a core thus bottlenecking 2 gpus' performance.

                        • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                          benman2785

                          no way u can run it with 9GHz 24/7 with current chips -> maybe 6,5GHz with unlimited LN2 and selfmade headspreader for backside of MoBo AND a perfect air-flow // but wont be cost-efficient and pretty dangerous

                           

                          dont forget that you also stress every part of your pc with that kind of oc

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                          • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                            kxuping

                            I would make a medal of that CPU and put it on a golden chain around my neck.

                             

                            In extreme OC videos they use flame throwers while using LN2 to avoid killing the CPU before its time and put a lot of stuff on the motherboard to avoid condensation. Currently I think its harder than putting a closed loop liquid cooling system and brake records.

                            • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                              savagebeastzero

                              Hey vegasecurea,

                               

                              This is a great question not asked by many here in the forums. So here's the answer, although not exactly the one you're probably searching for considering your interest and readiness to invest to make this a reality.

                               

                              Regardless of the cooling situation provided by the end user this is always the end result. Once the end user begins to overclock past a certain frequency regardless of optimal conditions, stability degrades and multi-core functionality begins to break down (Usually anywhere above the 5.4Ghz threshold at a maximum). That being said, this is why overclockers competing to attain such high frequencies generally work on a single core of a multi-core FX chip that has prime silicon (a "lottery chip"), then using the LN2, they then generally apply voltages of 2.0+ Volts. They then need to operate the CPU at their attained frequency for a short duration selected prior to the event that they deem acceptable to be considered "qualifying".

                               

                              With that being said, in short, these extreme overclocks are attained for incredibly short durations and under "controlled" situations as mentioned above. That's not including the fact that these overclocks are generally attained by teams of highly experienced overclocking enthusiasts who have a combined hundred or so years of experience in handling situations that may present themselves. To even fathom reproducing such an overclock on a single core of an FX-CPU, solo is nearly impossible, it can be done, but by only a handful of talented individuals and most assuredly never as a daily driver. This is currently impossible and always will be on any currently available central processing units coupled with any cooling situation or regulators on the market today, whether consumer or industrial/server grade.

                               

                              Also, one must keep in mind that these world record overclocks are performed on motherboards that (although modified) are available to the general public, which means they are the highest quality available. These motherboards simply aren't capable of maintaining their integrity under these conditions and their circuitry would degrade shortly after attempting to operate the central processing unit and system in general at such power levels, in short it would fry, just as they do during overclocking competitions for short durations, let alone operating 24/7..Sadly, once again, it's juts not feasible.

                               

                              Then there's the factor of consistent data corruption which would reproduce itself in new and interesting ways you've never seen before, never allowing you to grasp what the issue was to begin with, because if, somehow you were successful in not destroying the chip, system and possibly your home in a whole the first go around, you'd be welcomed with the fact that you now need to reinstall your operating system due to data corruption (oh happy days ).

                               

                              This data corruption anomaly is likely even at more feasible multi-core overclocking frequencies such as 5.4Ghz, as the chip wasn't designed to operate as such. So, although a 5.4Ghz multi-core overclocking frequency is likely pending you receive the highest quality silicon and ensured the optimal conditions throughout your system, any higher would likely fail and fail quickly. So, overall not only is such a desired 9.0Ghz+ frequency not possible as a daily driver, but it is incredibly dangerous, not only to your system, but to your well being. This simply isn't something that should be attempted, unless in a controlled professional environment, with fire extinguishers at the ready and someone at the breaker to cut off power in the case something goes wrong.

                               

                              Anyways, I hope this answers your question and if there's anything else you'd like me to touch on, feel free to ask away and I or another experienced overclocker from the AMD community would be happy to reply. Have a nice day.

                              3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                  vegasecurea

                                  Thank you savagebeastzero.

                                   

                                  I guess then the follow up question would be what are the highest stable overclock that people are getting running 24/7. 5.4GHz seems low but if that's all current technology can handle 24/7 then so be it, lol.

                                   

                                  Have you tried either of these products...

                                  LD PC-V10 Phase Change - Black White - LD Cooling Computer Cases

                                  Koolance EX2-1055 or Koolance ERM-3K3UA?

                                   

                                  I'm more about highest stable overclock rather than the highest overclock achievable is why I ask. No point in buying the LD Cooling Computer Case if 5.4GHz is the highest stable by current standards. Which I am thinking a 360mm in push/pull can achieve. I would invest in the LD Cooling if only it can achieve a higher stable overclock than the 360mm (or a 420mm and 480mm for that matter).

                                    • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                      kxuping

                                      If you want to know about those fancy pants coolers you must go to Overclock.net forums

                                      They helped me with my custom WC loop and they use sub zero phase coolers, some of them control with Aquaero 6 and some custom PCB.

                                      • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                        sgtbilko

                                        I wasn't going to respond to this but I feel as though I need to.

                                         

                                        What you're linking is a Phase Change unit (essentially the compressor taken off a fridge), it will reach temperatures of -30c and obviously taking the temperature below the dew point will introduce condensation and this means you will need to take measures to prevent damage to your CPU and Motherboard (Insulation around the front + back of socket, memory slots and vrms to an extent) now at these temperatures a "decent" FX would be able to run between 5.4-5.7Ghz stable on 24/7 usage and of course that is fully dependent on your motherboard, memory and how much vcore you want to pump into the CPU.

                                         

                                        To be perfectly honest 24/7 Phase Change systems are a headache, you are MUCH better off investing in a nice custom water loop and be happy with 5.0-5.3Ghz stable.
                                        And a 360mm AIO will not get a 5.4Ghz stable overclock (I have experiance here), anything above 5.0Ghz is simply a hit or miss scenario, now you can push alot of that aside and barrel through with pure voltage but that will only get you so far, for a 5.4Ghz Stable overclock on water cooling you would need around 1.6-1.7v and that is not healthy.

                                         

                                        tl;dr No, you can't get 9Ghz, 8Ghz, 7Ghz or 6Ghz stable with any 24/7 system.

                                        2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                          • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                            vegasecurea

                                            Thanks sgtbilko,

                                             

                                            After my main computer/desk/gaming/workstation is up and running my next project will be the LD Cooling case. Phase changing the cpu, having the northbridge, ram, and soutbridges watercooled and overclock FSB instead of multiplier (better OCing results to heat output).

                                              • Re: What cooling solution for a 9GHz overclock?
                                                sgtbilko

                                                FSB (BCLK) overclocking will yield a less effective result over and combination of BCLK and Multi, If you're going for BCLK simply because of Heat and you're getting a SS system then Heat output is almost irrelevant so you really should just focus on whatever works for you.

                                                 

                                                I personally don't think hooking a SS system up to an FX chip is a good investment but by all means give it a crack (and don't forget to insulate!)