24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2015 10:56 AM by techguy

    AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling

    cocoman

      EDIT:

      Here are 15W FX-8800P benchmarks and very interesting discussions with lots of info

       

       

      ---

       

      Hi

       

      I've recently purchused a laptop with the AMD Carrizo FX-8800P (Envy 15Z) and I have a clear issue with it.

      As soon as I run any 3D program, the CPU downclocks to 1.3GHZ and the GPU downclock to some low clocks level too. I've tried Furmark and Bioshock. What gives?

       

      Overdrive doesn't work for this APU and Catalyst doesn't do anything.

      What can I do?

       

      Thanks

       

      Message was edited by: Julie Jerby Edited relevant info threads/articles for those who are interested

        • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
          logiotek

          Every Carrizo laptop out there available right now seems to be power-limited to 12-20W. Power-limiting APU is convenient for OEMs because it allows them to invest less into designing heat-sinking and cooling solution, as well as results in a quieter system. Now with that said, 1.3GHz you are describing is too low, it should be at least 2.1GHz, which is the base clock of FX-8800P. Peak GPU clocks of 600MHz sound about right for 12-20W configuration. Carrizo in your laptop might be thermally throttling. Chances are BIOS update in the future will enable more aggressive fan cooling profile to reduce throttling. Best thing you can do for now is wait. I am personally waiting to get a Carrizo system for myself later this year.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
              cocoman

              1. So, they are limiting the TDP just in order to make it easier for them!

              The performance is way way lower than it should be. Maybe I wasn't clear - the GPU is only *sometimes* set on 600MHZ and usually around 350-400MHZ. It's so stupid, as I guess even with 2.1GHZ for the CPU and full GPU power, you could match the GT 840M/940M or come very close.

               

              2. I'm talking about the new HP Envy 15Z

               

              3. Again, the performance was simply murdered. You don't really get a Carrizo APU.

                • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                  logiotek

                  AMD is at the mercy of OEMs. By giving them a configurable TDP and pin-compatibility with Carrizo-L (repackaged Beema with TDP of 12-25W and a single memory channel), they kind of gave way for this to happen. The current crop of Carrizo laptops is a waste of Carrizo silicon. In my opinion 14-inch+ form factors would have been better served with 25W+ TDP limit.

                   

                  Try looking at the clocks while your laptop is plugged into power outlet and then compare them with clocks when your laptop is battery-powered, see if there are any discernible differences. Also pay attention to audible fan speeds while you are at it. Also try to read out temperatures using some tools like HWMONITOR | Softwares | CPUID from creators of CPU-Z. Try a few different monitoring software tools because the system might just be too new to read out temperatures correctly. 1.3GHz CPU and 350-400MHz GPU clocks are not right even under 12-15W TDP limit. It might be designed to be this bad on purpose by exploiting flexibility of Carrizo, as I am sure most OEMs wouldn't want to get on Intel's bad side by releasing something excellent based on AMD's Carrizo. AMD should consider sponsoring a couple of laptop designs themselves, perhaps a 15.6-inch and 13.3-inch model, that demonstrate what Carrizo can offer. It might be a while before we see some decent designs from OEMs. I would be really surprised if HP does not put Carrizo into their AMD-based EliteBook line by early next year's time - then something really wrong is going on.

                    • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                      cocoman

                      do you think it might be related to the fact I've upgraded to Windows 10?

                       

                      About clocks - the same more or less.

                        • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                          logiotek

                          More like it's related to the BIOS. Keep checking for new BIOS versions from HP.

                           

                          You can check your Power Options in Windows 10: Control Panel -> All Control Panel Items -> Power Options. Check what power plans are available. Try changing between them and retesting. Also try looking at advanced settings for each power plan by clicking on "Change plan settings" and "Change advanced power settings", specifically "Processor power management" section: "Minimum processor state", "Maximum processor state" (should be 100% for Maximum processor state) and "System cooling policy" (setting Active might make a difference). If nothing there makes a difference or already optimal then it's the design/BIOS.

                            • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                              cocoman

                              I'm doing some chat sessions with HP now. They say that they got reports about systems with Windows 10 from many people

                              I might go and try windows 8.1 with some other drive and see if at least the clocks are good - I'll report back and tell you what happened!

                              Thanks!

                                • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                  logiotek

                                  Check out this review from Notebookcheck:

                                   

                                  Carrizo in Review: How does AMD's A10-8700P Perform? - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

                                   

                                  Specifically scroll down to sections where Dota 2 and Diablo III are tested and look at the graphs of CPU and GPU clocks:

                                   

                                  CPU + GPU clocks Dota 2: http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Sonstiges/Prozessoren/Carrizo/dota2.png

                                   

                                  CPU + GPU clocks Diablo III: http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Sonstiges/Prozessoren/Carrizo/d3.png

                                   

                                  The same things you are describing are observed on HP Pavillion 17-g054ng laptop with A10-8700P.

                                    • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                      cocoman

                                      0. I've tried Windows 8.1 now (back from Windows 10). Same results with fully updated Windows 8.1

                                       

                                      1. Yea, saw that one. You are lucky to get half the gaming performance..

                                      We could get some consolation in the fact that the GPU performance is probably limited by the DDR3 memory bandwidth.

                                      Carrizo at full 35W seem to be a nice CPU, esepcially for the price point (I got the 15Z for $450 more or less, with the 8800P), but it also seem that it requires much software optimization (like utilizing HSA) and ofcourse, the TDP thing

                                       

                                      2. BTW, it doesn't throttle when running Prime95 and it keeps it on 2.6GHZ

                                       

                                      3. It is not clear to me what their power consumption mean.. is it 40W for the CPU only? (did they really measured it?) or do they have some software?

                                      I'm usually using HWInfo, but it seems that it doesn't read the sensors in the Envy 15z/AMD System

                                        • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                          logiotek

                                          Your 2.6GHz for Prime95 is in line with Notebookcheck results. You have a better binned part (FX-8800P vs Notebookcheck's A10-8700P).

                                           

                                          Prime95 is a CPU-only workload so the most of 15W is allocated just to CPU and CPU is able keep the clocks higher. For mixed workloads CPU is going to throttle to give way to GPU.

                                           

                                          I am not sure how they measured the power but it's got to be for the whole laptop topping out at 41W for Prime95. I would guess on laptop's DC input because it's easy to to do so. Such test reflects on the power efficiency of the whole system, including DC-DC power supply, screen, and other components... AMD-based systems usually serve as sinkholes for remaining stock of phased out parts for OEMs (crappy TN screen panels, 10/100 Ethernet, and who knows what else).

                                            • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                              cocoman

                                              Yea :\

                                              I'll contact support again.

                                               

                                              Even if it has configured TDP of 15W/20W/25W - they should have someone marked it. I know they NEVER do that and it's all marketing, but still, it's some kind of fraud.

                                                • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                                  techguy

                                                  It looks like HP is off the laptop option list for me if they can't do better than this. I'm glad I found out before I spent hundreds of dollars on a crippled Carrizo APU.

                                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                                    • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                                      patniced

                                                      This how I feel about my resent purchase of a Toshiba E45WD-C4210. I got stiffed with a cripple Fx 8800p I paid over $700 US at Best Buy for it. What a disappointment. Over the last five years I have purchase 4 laptops with AMD(A6-5200, A8 4500m, FX 8800p, N930)  one desktop with A10 5800k and four graphics care R7 250, R7 260x, 8770m(intel laptop) and a Firepro V4900(intel desktop). Anything computing I always try to get all AMD or at least one component that is AMD. I am also for responsible others buying another four laptops with amd APU or processor over the last 5 years.

                                                      I made these purchases in favor of AMD because my first personal build of a PC was with AMD parts and their price performance was out of this world.  I have always held the believe that AMD was about giving users the best of technology(before intel) for a fair price. But lately OEM have been destroying my perception of their products with this $H!t they have done with the FX 8800p and over all cheap build of every laptop I have purchase in the last five years with their APU and CPU. What makes me even more angry is AMD seem to be allowing this mess to continue. They don't seem proactive in dealing with it.

                                                      I am tired of waiting on them to deliver on their promises, tired of them delivering product that I wanted and when I get it is its castrate and AMD seems to be fine with that. They should counter this attempt by OEM to undervalue their band with hardware of their own and in this case were the Fx 8800p is being stuck with only 1600 Mhz because of 15 watt TDP they should have had an AMD overdrive solution.

                                                      If I am unable to use 2133 MHZ in my laptop because some OEM sees it fit to lock me out of the BIOS and AMD allows it and do not provide a solute to allow there hardware to shine. Then the question is why should I continue to support a business that does care about how customers of their products are being deprived of feature of their product because an OME wants to be cheap or make Intel feel good. I can not stand up for you if you do not stand up for yourself.

                                                        • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                                          techguy

                                                          It is not AMD's fault that the laptop makers are castrating the Carrizo APUs. AMD made the total TDP adjustable on Carrizo chips so that for example a laptop maker creating an 11" notebook or similar small form factor device could use a low TDP due to the limited cooling capacity of the smaller chassis. Cooling of Carrizo APUs however should not be an issue on any properly designed 13" and larger laptop, IME. It is believed that the castration of the Carrizo APUs by HP and other suppliers is because they want the maximum battery life at the expense of maximum performance.

                                                           

                                                          The customer should be the one to decide if they want maximum performance or battery life - as has been the case with prior laptop models where the user could adjust the laptop performance. In addition ALL laptop makers should be clearly DIVULGING ANY THROTTLING of the laptop/APU so that consumers know before they spend the better part of $1000 on a laptop only to find the performance has been castrated. I expect any state and federal consumer protection agencies would be willing to force a laptop maker to repurchase any castrated laptop where this throttling is not clearly disclosed in large BOLD type in numerous marketing materials prior to purchase as it's essentially consumer fraud to not tell consumers that the performance has been compromised for longer battery life.

                                                           

                                                          It's worth noting that AMD has no control over how a manufacturer uses the products they purchase from AMD. The laptop manufacturer is the one who is responsible for castrating these Carrizo laptops, not AMD.

                                                            • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                                              patniced

                                                              I get what you are saying. Then I believe this may be the last time I am buying a Laptops with APUs or AMD CPU, because if they are so helpless it seems that I will always be getting junkware for my money whenever I support products with their APU/CPU.

                                                              I believe if AMD wanted their hardware in products that showed how well their hardware work they could do it. I paid $700. US for my laptop and I paid that much because of the APU(FX 8800p) and the potential of this APU to preform. I did not expect it to be the best.  But in my option when compared to the competition it was just as good for everyday use and better at graphics usage than anything Intel.  Graphics wise I believe it would have been able to stand its ground against any intel and dedicated graphics(Nvidia or AMD) in this price range and be more power efficient. at 35 watt.

                                                              I would be willing to pay $1000. US easily for a dual graphic config with an FX 8800p inside I do not need a SSD. Just make it with a 1080p display 2 RAM slots and decent build materials. and I am willing to bet I am not the only one. 10,000 units @ $1000 us a pop that is a cool 10,000,000. That product would sell right off of their website.

                                                              AMD needs to cut out the middle man. Make and sell their own PC(Laptop) to the retailers(Best Buy, Staple, New egg etc) . Only then would they have a product that the sales guy and the door keepers(People who give computer buying advice to family and friends) would recommend over or just has much as intel/NVidia. This is what they need to do to fix their financials and stop cutting jobs. The problem is not with the people who are working hard to see the company succeed but with their partners who are just trying to keep Intel and Nvidia  out of trouble with the anti-trust laws.

                                                              The only partners they should be worried about is their loyal fan base and our numbers are great enough make sure amd turns a profit. Focus on us and they will make money, focus on the OEM relationship(there is non because of disloyalty) and they will died.

                                                              They can continue to sell the business products to OEM through sole distributorship. This strategy should only be applied to their mobile products

                                                                • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                                                  warpfact0r10

                                                                  I feel your pain. I really want to buy and AMD laptop, but IMO there really isn't one that does the hardware justice.

                                                                   

                                                                  AMD can continue to let OEMs do what they want with the chips, but AMD needs to at least put out a halo AMD-branded model to truly show off the hardware's potential.

                                                                   

                                                                  This is something I've been saying for a long time and I truly hope it isn't falling on deaf ears with management.

                                      • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                        n00b_the_builder

                                        I have the exact same issue but I noticed when I installed my ssd in my envy, I reach at least the base clock speeds.

                                        • Re: AMD Carrizo FX-8800P heavy throttling
                                          waytarn

                                          I also have similar problem with AMD FX8800P carrizo.

                                          My Laptop is Acer E5-452G-F3WH running on W10 64bit

                                          I upgrade memory to 16GB@1600mhz dual channel.

                                          For games like DOTA2, my CPU is running fine at 2.1Ghz or more with around 60% CPU usage.

                                          But integrated GPU R7 is running at 400Mhz (95% plus GPU usage), but never reach its default clock (720Mhz).

                                          Framerate is 25-40 @ 1366X768 on "best looking graphic setting"

                                           

                                          My laptop also has R5 335m, but It just won't work with DOTA2.

                                          Switchable graphic setting is set as "high performance" but it always use my integrated GPU

                                          I have tried all drivers and google for all information.

                                           

                                          Nothing works