PC Processors

[sur6e]

When I turn the computer on since a few days there is a slight rattle sound coming from the AIO but it goes away within a second or so. It seems to be operating fine otherwise. One tube is warm, the other isn't. Fans are running, rpm's are all good. After getting a CPU temp warning from my BIOS I started checking some stuff and noticed that while in the BIOS it runs at a solid 90C. Everything else seems to have normal temps. In Windows I run hwinfo64 and see the CPU, CPU Die, and CPU CCD1 hit 90C as well but it's not constant. Just typing this the current temp sits around 75-85C. I'm pretty current on everything, BIOS, drivers, Windows updates, etc. I don't have background tasks that would put a load on it and all that would seem irrelevant anyway since in the BIOS it goes to 90C. Task manager shows the CPU at 3% or less utilization. I think this is a recent change/issue and I'm not sure where to look. Of course the slight rattle I mentioned makes my AIO suspect but it seems to be working well. This AIO has the pump in the radiator. Big difference between the tubes temps, so it seems it's taking the heat away pretty well. I would go and reseat and repaste the block etc but I installed it well and temps were great with some Arctic Cooling MX-4 paste. Supposed to be good for 8 years I think. I built the PC about 4-5mo ago. It was boosting all cores to 4.8 no problem. Hwinfo64 shows me that a number of cores don't boost that high even before the temps ramp up, and once they do (which it does quickly) it seems to stay around 3.7.

Any help is welcome. I guess I will have to check that it's mounted and pasted well but it just feels unlikely. I know I took care to do it well when I built it.

Specs:

Mobo: MSI MPG B550 GAMING CARBON WIFI

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X

AIO: MSI MAG Series CORELIQUID 240R

Memory: G.SKILL Trident Z Neo 32GB (2x16) DDR4 3600

GPU: Aorus 5700XT

PSU: Seassonic FOCUS GX-850 80+ Gold

Case: LIAN LI LANCOOL II MESH PERFORMANCE BLACK Tempered Glass

Fans: Replaced all the fans with 120 and 140mm be quiet! SILENTWINGS 3 fans

NVME: Sabrent 2TB Rocket with heatsink

[ryzen_type_r]

Yeah if it's at 90C sitting at the BIOS screen, the problem is either going to be with your cooling setup, or with a bad BIOS setting (or possibly just bad BIOS if you've updated it since you built it, updates sometimes break things).  Were you playing around with OC'ing?

Try another cooling setup if you have one just to eliminate that, and if that doesn't help, try resetting BIOS settings back to stock.  Or even try flashing back to the version of BIOS you had when you first built the system.

[elstaci]

Sound like your AIO is going bad or is defective or it isn't installed correctly.

The Input to the pump at the processor should be warm not cold and the output from the pump should be slightly warmer than the input.

If one side is warm and the other side is fairly cold indicates that fluid is not flowing either through a blockage or the pump is broken.

An air bubble can cause a blockage prevent fluid from flowing through the circuit.

Does it feel like liquid is flowing through hoses when the AIO is running? You should feel a little bit of vibration as the liquid flows through the hoses.

Check for any leakages where the hoses connect to the Radiator and pump.

At boot up the Processor shouldn't be at Maximum Operating temperature of 90c for your processor. The processor is not running at 100% load at boot up so the processor shouldn't be overheating.

I would  thoroughly check your AIO and make sure fluid is flowing and is cooling and is installed correctly on the processor.

I would open a Support ticket with the AIO manufacturer and see if it is defective or not.

EDIT: I downloaded the PDF for Quick Installation Guide. You are correct that the pump is installed on the Radiator as shown in the picture below.

By any chance you did remove the clear plastic film from the bottom of the pump before installing correct?

Also make sure you are not using the special fan Down Slow Speed Controller cable that prevents the fan from running at full speed as shown in the diagram. That special cable is only for the 360MM Radiator unit:

[Gwillakers]

Sounds like you have a problem somewhere.

However, in the meantime, why not use one of Ryzen's protective features to save wear and tear on your hardware while you shoot this problem?  Ryzen is very good at keeping within Thermal limits that you set, and can do so without you losing much performance at all.

I suggest you set PBO to Advanced.

Set Limits to Manual.

Set Thermal Limit to Manual, and then set the new field "Thermal Limit" to 70C

This will give you time to shoot the problem, and any worsening of the problem will manifest itself in a performance drop-off, and not so much likely damage to your parts.

[sur6e]

This is the AIO installed which says that it's in the radiator

https://www.newegg.com/msi-liquid-cooling-system/p/N82E16835846008?Item=N82E16835846008

If you look at the last of the pictures you see a square on the radiator where the pump sits.

I would expect one hose to be warm and the other not if it's working properly. I can feel the slight vibration in the hoses as if the fluid is running through. There are no leaks. I also re-applied paste anyway and used the spreader to evenly spread it before remounting the block. A bubble is possible I guess but it seemed like it was flowing considering everything else. The film was removed when I first built it. I had seen someone in the Newegg reviews make that mistake so I made sure I didn't. That slow fan cable isn't in either.

Since I first posted I have flashed the BIOS and updated a few drivers. I tried the beta BIOS, then went back to an older one than what I was on, and then forward to the beta again. Somewhere along the way of doing all that (may have just been the paste, or the moving around of the block/hoses if it was a bubble?) it is back to more reasonable temps. Low 40-50s when idle and up to high 80s when busy.

I still feel like the idle temp is a little too high. I haven't looked at it much since I finished the build and all seemed good. I would expect idle to be in the 30-40s but maybe I'm thinking of my old CPU.

I was not messing with overclocking or anything. Just about everything in the BIOS is on auto/default aside from the XMP profile.

Thanks a lot for the responses and your time. If you have any thoughts about what a 5800X idle temp should be with an AIO I'd like to hear that. If this ramps up again I may still contact MSI. Might do it regardless.

[elstaci]

I stand corrected. You are right. I edited my previous reply when I saw that the Pump cable was connected to the Radiator.

Well it seems like you fixed the problem yourself. Possibly you have corrected something that wasn't installed properly. 

That pump came with a monitoring software did it not?

There you can check the status of the pump and fan to make sure it is working correctly. I believe it should show the RPM of the pump (4200 RPM) and Radiator fans.

The idle or low loads temperatures seems to be fairly average but reaching in the high 80's under heavy load for a AIO is high in my opinion. 

The 5800x is rated at 105 watts TDP. This means you need a CPU Cooler should be rated at least 125 Watt TDP to maintain it cool.

Also according to MSI your AIO is compatible with your Processor.

NOTE: If you have poor air circulation around the Radiator that could cause the higher temperatures under heavy loads.

Also make sure the water-block on the Processor is making good contact and it is tightly screwed on. Some Users in the past were afraid to tighten down the Water-Block or CPU Cooler heatsink causing very high running temperatures because it wasn't making good tight contact on the surface of the processor.

Normally the input hose to the water-block will be slight cooler than the output hose from the Water-block. If the input or output hose is cold that means no liquid is flowing. Both should be warm to the touch but the output should be slightly warmer than the input to the Water-block.

[sur6e]

Thanks for the tip about PBO and how to limit the temp. 

I just played some games and it did peak into the 90s again. Definitely higher than it used to go. I think in the beginning when I watched it I would get into the high 70s, maybe 80. I think I'll contact MSI and see what they can do. I wondered if there was some firmware update for the CPU that came with the BIOS update (I think that's how that works?) that may allow this to go into the low 90s? Flashing the BIOS to an older version I figured may not downgrade the CPU? 

I never installed the MSI Dragon Center? software but it's now called MSI Center I saw and I downloaded it. I'll check it out and see if it tells me more than hwinfo about the pump. Pump fan in hwinfo does show over 4k rpm. And CPU fan must be the radiator fans which go between 1333 and 2247 rpm.

The radiator is mounted in the top and has lots of clearance and airflow. No obstructions aside from its own hoses. Screws on the water block are all the way tight to where they stop and that seemed fine. Considering the temps drop quick after exiting a game I think fluid is flowing okay. But then why the peaks into the 90s..

[cyberloner]

for full performance boost with pbo2 ..... 90'C limit hit is normal and i just ignore the temp after playing around.........

if want cool disable pbo2 or limit the temp to lower temp..........

[elstaci]

Thanks for the update.

Either the AIO is not strong enough for that processor or it isn't working correctly or needs to be configured better using it own MSI program.

I believe it is a good idea to contact MSI Support to see if that is normal temps for your AIO for that specific model.

In my opinion the processor temperature shouldn't reach Maximum Operating Temperature (90c) under heavy loads using a AIO CPU Cooler.

Your MSI AIO does have good reviews for being used with the 5000 series processors.

You can disable PBO in BIOS which is AMD way of basically safely overclocking the processor which should help keep the processor running cooler or follow @Gwillakers  suggestion of changing the setting in BIOS to make the processor run cooler.

For instance I just recently upgraded to a Ryzen Processor, 3700x with a TDP of 65 Watts yet using a 150 Watt TDP  Hyper212 EVO air CPU Cooler with a Push-Pull fan configuration, my idle to heavy loads fluctuates constantly between 45C and 60C all the time. When I stress the CPU the temperatures with OCCT it maxes out at 74C for a few seconds then drops to 72-73c. But I haven't clean the inside of the computer in a while or the CPU Cooler which could explain the slightly higher temps.

As an example here is my results while using OCCT to stress test the processor using the most extreme settings:

In my case , I just ignore the processor's temperature unless I see it reaching 85C or higher, then I would start troubleshooting the CPU Cooler. The 3700x has a slightly higher Maximum Operating Temperature of 95C. So as long as temperatures stays below 80c I have no issues to be concerned about.

I do use a Windows 7 Gadget on my desktop that monitors my processor's temperature constantly and the percentage of load on the processor which is quite useful.

In my BIOS, I have PBO enabled and everything except a couple of settings set on factory defaults.

Anyway if you do decide to contact MSI Support can you post back their answer.

[sur6e]

I'll report back what happens. An update though. I was just registering my products with MSI and had to take a picture of the side of the 24 pin connector inside the case.. I happened to have a game running while doing that and noticed that the heat from my 5700XT is blowing directly onto the hoses of the AIO. I think has always been that way (but I didn't know it), and I'm not sure that this is the issue, but it sure is a lot of heat blowing right over the hoses. I'm wondering if I should front mount it instead, or some other orientation to get the hoses out of the path of gpu heat. Any thoughts? I have never had it front mounted before. Should I do push pull and add two fans in the top, or just push in from the front and leave the two that are on the radiator now in the top? Without a filter on the front I guess push pull will increase the dust intake.

I'm not really sure I should pursue this change though. It was fine before.

[ryzen_type_r]

My 5800X sitting at Windows desktop idles around 10-12C above ambient.  So seeing 40C isn't unusual in summertime if I don't have the AC running.

Yeah a top mount rad like that can reduce cooling efficiency somewhat because you're drawing GPU heated air thru the radiator.  If you make it a front mount, you get cool air thru the radiator from outside, but then that heated air goes towards the GPU.  So it's always gonna be a compromise, but you can try both ways to see which compromise you like the best.

But if you do keep the top mount, one thing I would do is turning that rear exhaust fan around and making it an intake instead.  This way, you're pulling cool air from outside and throwing it almost directly into the radiator fans.  At the very least, you're mitigating the GPU-heated air thru the radiator somewhat.  Takes only a coupla secs to try, anyway.

The rear exhaust fan is meant for CPU air coolers, to pull the heated air off the heatsink out of the case.  Not necessary for AiO's, and can be counterproductive with a top mount radiator.

[sur6e]

I flipped the rear exhaust fan around and first impression is that it helps idle temps a little bit. Need more time/testing to be sure but I can see that helping to keep the CPU area right beside it cooler. Thanks for the tip.

MSI's response was short and just pointed me to the RMA request info. No troubleshooting whatsoever. Their website is a mess but I'll to get that going tomorrow. If/when a new one comes in I'll update the thread as to whether that fixed it.

The PBO setting to limit the temp wasn't exactly in the mentioned location but close. When I set it to Manual it shows three 3-letter settings that all didn't seem to be what I needed but a little lower was something that let me set a thermal limit. It seems to mostly keep it at 70C with spikes up to about 5C over. Pretty much what is was doing with the setting on auto around 90C.

Appreciate all the comments from everyone. 

[sur6e]

Oof, MSI customer service is bad. What is a durable AIO that I can switch to? Any recommendations? I can't be without my computer as I use it for work etc and their only response is to RMA it. No option to have one shipped to me and let me return the faulty one. The tech I just chatted with said to RMA it and then promptly left the chat before I could ask any question. I'm starting to regret switching to MSI. 

[sur6e]

Another update. I recently moved my desk around and thus moved the case. I figured maybe I caused an air bubble to sit wrong while doing that. So I figured I'd mount the AIO in the front, push pull, added two fans in the top (got a little more rgb now and it actually looks nice lol) and turned the rear fan around so it's an exhaust again. So far temps are far better. I have the hoses at the top of the radiator and the pump near the bottom. It's the only way I could do it or the hoses would push on the GPU pretty hard. I'm going to monitor this and see how it does but so far it seems to be pretty good. Haven't reached 70C yet in Windows. I'll try a game later tonight and see what max temps I get.

[sur6e]

When tightening the two screws that hold the block down I remember the top one hitting a point where I couldn't tighten it more. I don't know what that was, rough thread or something else, but I never checked back. When I checked it today it turned out I could tighten it more with my fingers. Used a screwdriver to tighten it all down real good and temps are back to normal. Idle in the 30s, maxing at 80. My bad, sorry, and thanks for the comments.

[elstaci]

That would cause the issues you were having.

One side of the block was tight while the other side was slightly loose not making the water block have a close tight contact on the processor.

Take care.

[sur6e]

Well, one last update... the issue returned after a day. I finally installed my old Corsair H115i PRO and can say for sure now that the MSI AIO is just bad. The Corsair in quick testing didn't even reach 70C in games that were immediately spiking to 80-90C+. I'll see about RMAing it. Guess that's the final answer.

[cyberloner]

all 5800x with pbo2 will hit 90'C