PC Drivers & Software

[tako33]

Hi,

MB: MSI X470 Gaming PRO, CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700x, GPU: RX 560
OS: Win 10 1809 + Win 10 1903

sometimes (about 5 x a week), the GPU fan spins up like crazy on different occasions for 2 - 5 seconds. Speed 111% - 3,100 rpm! It can be on waking from standby or on system boot during the user logon or just in the middle of any action. It happens with installed Radeon-Software, but also with the Windows Basic Display Adapter. It's not reproducible, I can not create a situation where it is guaranteed to happen. After this 5-second-rampage it goes back to 0 rpm for the rest of the day. Any ideas about this?

[qwixt]

When it spins up, open task manager, have it sorted by GPU usage column, and look and see what process is causing the issue.

[tako33]

Not possible because it happens during the login to the user account. When the desktop appears, it stops after 2 seconds. Only once it was during a copy process, but 2 - 5 seconds are too short for such investigations. 

There are no tasks in startup, no snake oil, only Windows.

3100 rpm sounds like a starting jet plane. I've never had anything like this with a PC before. ;-)

[elstaci]

I believe that is normal for the GPU fan to be running at full speed during booting up to Windows since the GPU Driver hasn't started yet.

Once the GPU Driver becomes active when Windows starts, then it start controlling the GPU fan.

The RX 5xx series has a similar feature as Zero RPM where the GPU fan doesn't start until it reaches a certain temperature.

If the fan starts running full speed for a few seconds, you need to check the temperature of the GPU card. If it is showing  a very high temperature then that is the reason for the fan to run so high. If the temperature is, like below 60C, then it could be a driver issue or a faulty GPU temperature sensor.

[tako33]

If it were normal, it would appear all the time but it happens very rarely, last time on reboot after Windows Update. Perhaps it doesn't like system changes. The last three days it has not occurred so far. GPU-Temp cannot be the reason on a freshly started cold system.
Well, if "Speed 111% - 3100 rpm" (sounds really terrible) is not harmful I let it rumble in the jungle from time to time and perhaps next time buy a passive cooled card without fan. ;-)

[pokester]

Just checked my 4 generations of  cards and none of them do that at boot. Certainly different card makers could do it different?

[elstaci]

My Asus Zero RPM GPU card (Nvidia) the fans always start as soon as I power up my computer. Once it logs in to Windows the fans stop and won't start until it reaches a certain temperature.

If you read other Users, most of them mentions that all fans are running when first booting up including the GPU Fans.

But as you say, maybe it depends on the programming of the specific GPU card by the manufacturers.

How do you know your GPU fans even works if they don't start up during boot and once it reaches Windows won't start up til it reaches the proper temperature?  Unless you have a monitoring software that boots up with Windows showing the GPU card is overheating.

[pokester]

On AMD cards it is pretty easy they are loud in games. On my NVIDIA  cards they are hard to hear they only run when gaming and not at hight RPM then. My RTX 2060 does not run the fans through boot neither does my 1050ti. My kid is on his 1060 and didn't want to check. 

[pokester]

I would add that the AMD cards are much louder through the boot process than they used to be if you use a manual curve as they can't run at zero rpm due to AMD messing up that feature but it sounds like the OP is complaining of much higher RPM than the 35% I think the drivers run at minimum on manual settings.

[elstaci]

From what I understood by the OP Post, is that GPU fan works normally. But occasionally it will go from zero rpm to maximum for about 4-5 seconds then go back to zero rpm.

This could be the GPU Fan controller or temperature sensors are failing. Could also be driver related but since the OP is the first one, that I know of, that has this particular action with his GPU it doesn't sound like a driver issue unless other Users start commenting they have the same issue. It could be a third party software interfering with GPU programming. But I don't how a 3rd party software would cause a temporarily GPU fans to go from zero to maximum speed for only a few seconds. 

Anyways, to rule out hardware, the OP should open a Warranty ticket with the manufacturer to see what their opinion is concerning the GPU fans and if the GPU card needs to be RMAed or they might say it is normal as stated by one User. 

Personally, IMO, it doesn't sound normal GPU fan behavior.

[pokester]

I have no idea it could be any of those things or not. All I know is none of my cards from the GCN 1.0 foward do this. My ol 4870 used to run all the time no matter what. My RX580 only runs because I use a manual curve. 

[kingfish]

There are other third party controllers than the usual Trixx,Afterburner,Asus, etc, that don't have the usual option to disable and are built in to the graphics cards. Which is why I asked who the card manufacturer was.

Sapphire has:

NITRO CoolTech

With the SAPPHIRE NITRO gaming series cards' Intelligent Fan Control III, the fan starts precisely at 56-degrees Celsius to smartly balance performance against fan noise.

Asus has:

Fan Expert lll

GPU Tweak

[pokester]

Cool. I have never used anuthing else. I did even know about the Speedfan app I talked about until AMD changed the way zero RMP worked. Always good to have more options on ways to sole issues. I personally like to leave things as vanilla as possible. As I know you pretty much feel the same as I do I think on programs like Afterburner and Trixx in general being trouble. Which is why a I cautioned usage. But they do allow control that AMD took away. I am sure other manufacturers may have software to control this. I have only had AMD cards from Saphire and MSI and XFX. I know the first two have tweak software but the I don't think XFX has their own unless it is a recent addition I am unaware of. 

On that Saphire Nitro series software do you have any Idea if it works with other cards and is that then a different software than their Trixx software? I know the Trixx does work with other cards or has in the past. I have not really used any of them since Wattman other than quickly testing the fan controls when AMD first changed the way zero RPM works.  I have never used the Asus software either. Do you know if any of these are more safe to use in conjunction with Wattman?

[kingfish]

Asus's Fan Expert lll and Sapphire's CoolTech/Intelligent Fan Control III are separate programs (I believe) from Trixx and GPU Tweak...it is built in to the specific graphics card. There were several posts about this function and the issues they created with Wattman fan controls.

[pokester]

Looks like those are more hardware dependent.

[tako33]

> From what I understood by the OP Post, is that GPU fan works normally. But

> occasionally it will go from zero rpm to  maximum for about 4-5 seconds then go back to

> zero rpm.

Correct. I opened the case and watched the system start: the fan silently spins for 1 second on BIOS-POST (ca. 500 rpm?), same on Windows Startup, same on User logon. In rare cases (User logon after Windows update) the fan goes mental (3200 rpm) for 3 seconds...

[qwixt]

What flavor of windows do you have (Pro or Home)? If you have Pro, I suggest turning off hardware updates, and just manually updating drivers. Perhaps windows is trying to auto update a driver causing the amd driver to unload and load. Wild guess.

Anyway, to turn off auto hardware updates: Advanced Systems settings dialog -> Hardware Tab -> Device Installation button. Select "Off".

[tako33]

In Win 10 not a single update comes without my permission, no security update, no driver update. In my case it won't change this behavior.
I've had now 5 days without fan rampage - may be the next one comes on the next patch day. If it keeps happening so rarely, I'll leave it as it is. Thanks for all suggestions.

[pokester]

I know that the AMD drivers evolve quickly to to the latest updates in Windows. So if you are using the latest drivers you want to be on the latest Windows version and for it to have all the current updates installed, for the drivers to work properly. At least that is what I have seen said here many times over. That also includes all other drivers being up-to-date.

[joecrow]

I also have this behaviour with an RX 570 and my older RX 460. I had always assumed it was part of the initialisation process on return from sleep and bootup etc. I wouldn't worry about it!

[tako33]

It's hard to get used to. It comes unexpected and you are scared to death. :-/

[elstaci]

just for troubleshooting purpose why don't you run a GPU Stress test to see what happens? 

[tako33]

I had it under observation a few days using Hwinfo. Low temp: zero rpm - higher temp: fan working, but all on an unhearable level. The card is working fine 99,999%.

[kingfish]

Who is the manufacturer? Several have their own fan controls..that are used by default and override Wattman settings.

[tako33]

Powercolor RX560 Red Dragon 4096 MB - one single fan - 145 Euro here in Germany.
It happens with Basic Display Adapter and with Radeon Software installed. For me it looks like a timing problem.
Mostly the system gets the card on logon immediately under control but in special cases it takes a few seconds. I mentioned Windows Update, in such cases the system is very busy during logon...

[elstaci]

It your decision.

But If the symptom starts to get worse where the fan goes from zero to maximum for a few seconds frequently then you may want to open a Warranty Request ticket with your GPU manufacturer. They may determine if that is "Normal" behavior for ZERO RPM for their GPU Card. 

[pokester]

WIndows Fast Startup can cause some weird issuse like this as it can cache old and even corrupt driver information. It is an undeed feature that really only hursts not helps and IMHO should be disabled on all machines. I would disable Hibernation/Fast startup. Then run DDU and reinstall the driver doing both with the Internet disabled. If it is then working fine you may re-enable Fast Startup if it is something you miss. If this does nothing to help it may really be a driver bug so report the issue to AMD and if all of you with the issue do the same it helps to get bugs realized and fixed faster. Here is the support link: Online Service Request | AMD 

[joecrow]

For me it is definitely not a Fast Startup issue as it is disabled on both Win 10 x64 (1809) PCs that have this behaviour. It always occurs at the same time during booting, at the point when the Win logo and rotating dots switch to the logon screen, lasts about 2 or 3 seconds and sounds a bit like a motorbike revving up just before letting the clutch out. By the time I have logged on fan speed is back to zero. As mentioned before I get this on both my PCs, one with an RX 460 and the other with an RX570, it happens with all versions of drivers I have ever tried including the latest (19.5.1), I don't fiddle with WattMan  everything except RGB 4x4 is default. It also occurs on return from sleep with the RX 460 (PC with the RX 570 is never put to sleep) to a greater or lesser extent than on booting but sometimes not at all. I really don't believe it is an issue, probably no more than the driver testing that the fans are working IMHO.

[pokester]

Sounds like you have tested the situation on your end pretty well. I would run your question up the AMD flag pole by filling out that form link I sent. Just know the responses you get from them run the gamut of, no response at all, canned responses that in no way help and occasionally some awesome help that either fixes or leads to a future bug fix in drivers. So if you don't initially get an answer in a couple days, be persistent and keep bugging them if it is something you decide you are worried about. Your situation certainly doesn't sound normal to me. I have 5 AMD cards in machines at home right now and none of them do what you are describing. 

Good luck!

[joecrow]

Interesting, any of your AMD cards RXs and from Gigabyte( I'm not using their or any other environmental apps.)? I believe both of mine are from Gigabyte. Maybe the OP might want to run it by AMD support but for me it really is not even a slight nuisance also on the HTPC as I am only getting on startup/resume, so not worth the candle.

[pokester]

 Nope one Saphire and MSI and the others XFX. 

[qwixt]

Ok, I suspect that either some driver is getting loaded, or some task is getting run from scheduler.

Do you have afterburner or something like it loaded?

I would review all tasks in the tasks scheduler. That means looking at the task scheduler level, then going through every directory listed under it, including the huge windows one. I would look at all tasks with triggers of  "At log on of any user" and startup, then I would investigate if the tasks involved the GPU.

There is also a way to turn on logging and history for tasks run. Then you can use the event viewer to see all tasks that were run when the fan spin up happens again. Problem with the task history is that many MS tasks use a DLLHost or com thing and you cannot tell what was actually executed.

But that might help you figure out what is getting executed.

[joecrow]

No, no Afterburner or anything like that for me, never even been into the WattMan setting! From observation and contrary to the speculations by elstaci‌ during the boot sequence the fans do not run until it reaches the end of the rotating dots and the logon screen appears at which point there is a short burst at I would guess full speed then back to not running. I am describing what happens from a cold start, i.e the RX 460 is at room temp on the start of the boot. Maybe the OP is seeing something worse/else but for me it has always been this way and I am not worrying about it. Can anyone else with an RX say definitively that they do not have this behaviour???

[elstaci]

This is what I was talking about the GPU Fans starting during boot up and later stops. From a previous Reddit Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/4xh2jm/are_gpu_fans_supposed_to_spin_at_startup_then/ '

LeifEriccson

2 points · 2 years ago

Yes. They spin on start up as a kind of fault test to verify they work. Usually GPUs idle their fans until 60 or so and then start spinning unless you set a custom fan curve.

Found this previous thread at Nvidia GeForum which seems to be similar to what you are experiencing. Greybear is similar in knowledge as Black_Zion and Kingfish here at AMD Forums. : https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/933640/pc-components/gtx-750-ti-fan-keeps-stopping-and-star...  (Even though this involves a Nvidia GPU Card, the troubleshooting is valid for your AMD Card).

IMO, Contrarily to joecrow observations, I don't believe that a GPU Fan would turn on to maximum for a few seconds and then turn off intermittently as being normal during normal computing usage. .  This puts a lot of strain on the fan physically if it occurs frequently.

[elstaci]

You can two things if you are interested and will do no harm in doing it:

1) Open an Online Warranty Request with your GPU Manufacturer and explain the problem you are having. They might be able to determine if you have a defective GPU Card. 

2) You can also open an AMD Service Request ticket to see if it might be a Driver issue from here: Online Service Request | AMD 

EDIT:  Needed to correct Warranty info since this isn't a AMD manufactured GPU card.

[iridium]

Apologies for necroposting, I was having the same issue with my sapphire rx580: fans would occasionally ramp up to full speed at startup for couple seconds then will immediately go quiet. Same happened when my pc was idle. All fans in the case would be silent and then suddenly gpu fans will ramp up to maximum speed for couple seconds and as suddenly go silent. For me it's easily reproducible when pc is idle. It can happen very frequently, sometimes every 15mins when pc idle. It never happened when I was using it or when I was gaming. Needless to say it's really annoying and sometimes even gave me jumps.

I managed to resolve it by enabling custom fan tuning in radeon catalyst center: Performance tab -> Tuning -> Fan tuning. Here's the screenshot. Choose enabled, disable zero rpm, enable advanced control and set up the curve. As I understand, it will disable zero rpm feature when gpu fans stop spinning if temps are low and will always spin at minimum speed 745rpm, but I'm fine with it because it's very silent anyway.

Hope it helps to anyone who experience the same issue.