General Discussions

[jdubs]

Good Day Fellow AMD'ers! I recently built a new gaming pc and am having some issues with initializing the GPU.. or something.

The Build:

EVGA Z390 Dark

I9-9900k

MSI Radeon VII GPU

32 GB G.Skill Ripjaws V-Series DDR4-3333 

Samsung 970 Pro SSD in M.2 Slot 1 (Installed directly under the Graphx Card in PCI-E Slot 1)(Boot Drive)

2TB Seagate Barracuda (Non-RAID Config)

Rosewill Lightning 1k Watt PSU 

Win 10 Home 64bit (Loaded from Disk)

ASUS 5.25" DVD/CD Writer

Peripherals: MadCatz KB 5 (or something) & MadCatz RAT 7 Mouse

Built this badboy over the past weekend. Win 10 install went well (AFAI could tell). I was able to load/update all of the mobo, M.2 SSD, and Windows (Update) drivers.

Past that, I am having an issue that I cant work out. PC boots fine to windows on the MoBo graphics (HDMI pass-through the GPU since this MoBo does not have an HDMI port), and I can access most Windows functions from there. However the GPU does not present in the Windows device manager (or its Hidden View). The EVGA BIOS does indicate that there is a device in the PCI-E slot 1, but zero details on its ID or specs anywhere else in the BIOS. Of note here, that when the PC is powered on, the colors on my display are normal (by & large), but there is a subtle cycling of pink-purple-green-blue in the peripheries of icons and such while in Windows, but not in BIOS. I have isolated this phenomenon to my new PC, and ruled out my display as the cause.

Any and all attempts to scan for hardware changes in Device Manger causes the rig to freeze-up (after about 8-10 seconds), requiring a hard shutdown. Any and all attempts to update the drivers (AKA install Adrenalin) causes the rig to freeze-up (either at the "Checking for New Drivers" (Under Custom Install) or "Checking System Hardware" (Under Express Install) after about 8-10 seconds), requiring a hard shutdown.

I have tried:

* Scanning the RAM, SSD, & HDD for errors- None.

* Reinstalling Win 10- No Improvement.

* Expanding the Windows Virtual RAM- No Improvement.

* Reseating the GPU x5 (Note: it does have the requisite 2x8 Pin Connectors, each having a dedicated rail from the    PSU. The lights are on and the fans are a spinnin)- No Change.

* Attempted to update the card's VBIOS, several times (However I don't think that this actually went through, as the    CMD Prompt and other expected dialogues never presented.. or were so fast that I couldn't perceive them)

* Disabling the lower power states in a number of different settings for the CPU & GPU, both in Windows & BIOS

* Other Diagnostics and Stuff that I found through internet searches referencing this card (That don't immediately come    back to mind)

* Multiple different BIOS Settings

* Inventing new cuss-words and whispering them softly into the rear I/O ports..

Nothing yet has worked. I've never had a GPU fail on me, but I'm starting to wonder if this one is DOA..

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Kindest Regards,

J

[black_zion]

I can't believe you spent the money for a 9900K and Radeon VII, yet are powering it with a piece of trash Rosewill PSU which I hope is not from 2011, which if it is is the prime suspect. Insufficient power.

[jdubs]

OK. Thank You for the recommendation. I only build a new pc every 3-4 years or so. So, obviously I'm more of a gamer than an electronics enthusiast. I appreciate the advice and patience.

I have used that same model of PSU in my last 2 builds with zero issues. I figured that given that the previous 2 haven't given me any problems, and at a 1k Watts Continuous rating, it would be more than sufficient. Might I inquire specifically what you suspect that the actual mechanism that is keeping it from supplying adequate power is, given its Continuous 1k Watt Rating? I ask so that I am able to evaluate the specs and identify the better ones in the future.

Also, what PSU's would you recommend specifically for this build? I am familiar with the 80+ efficiency ratings and to only evaluate Wattage by the Continuous rating. What should I look for beyond that?

Lastly, if it turns out to not be the PSU, what would be your next two steps in diagnosing this issue?

I appreciate that I am asking several questions that are likely of a rudimentary nature, and so I Thank You, again, for your time and consideration.

Kindest Regards,

J

[black_zion]

Wattage is meaningless, it's just a number you get when you multiply what's really important, volts and amps. In a modern computer +12v is the most critical voltage as nearly everything runs off of it including everything very power hungry such as the CPU and GPU, that's why modern PSUs can (are supposed to) provide near or at their entire rating at that voltage. If you see your +12v voltage under 12v, that's a problem, and can and will result in data corruption, which causes a crash, and can even result in component damage. The fact the previous two builds of yours didn't give you any problems doesn't mean anything since the Radeon VII consumes more power than a medium sized city, exceeding 300w all by itself, and the 9900K isn't much better, sucking down in excess of 125w under multithreaded loads, which combined with everything else means you need at least 42A at 12v. As for what can keep a PSU from doing this, there's faulty components and components which degenerate over time. Your PSU only has a 3 year warranty, whereas the top PSU manufacturers have 7, 10, and even 12 year warranties.

As for what I would recommend, a 750-1000w PSU is fine, as long as it's from a reputable manufacturer, namely SeaSonic, Enermax, and Super Flower, preferably SeaSonic as they've been around the longest. Those manufacturers will always provide a PSU rating that is very near (within a few watts) or equal to the 12v capability, and provide the 3.3v and 5v supplies by down regulating 12v. A PSU is most efficient at 50% load.

Now, if it's not the PSU, then do as elstaci said and update everything, especially the BIOS and Intel ME. Do that first, as it doesn't require any money and can be done in minutes.

[jdubs]

Well Thank You, kindly, for explaining all of that. I'm a CAT Scan Tech, so not totally unfamiliar with electrical units/terms/formulas. Just not so much where it concerns pc components.

I understand all of what you're saying where it concerns build quality, consistent output, and entropy/degradation. I should have specified that the Rosewill PSU that I installed was factory sealed. I bought it at a good deal, as a backup for my previous build, several years ago. Even still, given your advice, I think I'm going to purchase one of the ones you suggested, to reduce susceptibility to underpowering any of my components. I've read the horror stories of people pinching on their PSU and paying for it.

At any rate, I'll try out your suggestions and elstaci's over the weekend, and let you guys know how it goes.

[qwixt]

Believe it or not, the PSU is one of the most important components in a PC. Stick with eVGA or Seasonic, and pick 10 year warranty ones. Generally speaking, you don't want your PC load at max level to be near PSU max. I would go for 850 PSU or higher.

[elstaci]

There is one free diagnostic software that stress test PSU called OCCT. 

It basically runs both CPU and GPU stress test at the same time to put maximum stress of the PSU. While the test is running you can check your PSU outputs 3.3/5.0/12 VDC to be sure all three are within 5% tolerances.

The lowest your 12 Vdc should go is 11.4 vdc.  If it drops below 11.4 then your PSU is deficient and not supplying the proper voltage under heavy stress.

You may want to reinstall the R9 GPU card and it drivers since it works fine to check the PSU under stress.

Your PSU came out in 2011 so it is a 8 y/o PSU.  Tom's Hardware says that it really isn't a 80+ GOLD PSU since at lower wattage it isn't efficient, but at higher Wattage it is good.

[elstaci · Accepted solution]

Very rare to see a User with a EVGA Motherboard. Very expensive one at that.

Have you updated your Motherboard's BIOS and CHIP Set to the latest version? That helps make hardware and drivers more compatible.

Also you need to update all of your Intel drivers to the latest versions. Especially the ones I circled.

NOTE: I don't see your G-SKILL Speed 3333 listed under your motherboard's RAM MEMORY QVL LIST:

Possible your RAM Memory may not be compatible with your Processor or Motherboard.

[elstaci]

If you believe your Radeon VII is defective you can open an MSI WARRANTY REQUEST and see what they suggest.

Also you can open an AMD Service Request and see what they suggest: Online Service Request | AMD .

I would do this after updating your motherboard's drivers and BIOS if applicable.

Here is Radeon VII latest AMD Driver from AMD Download page: AMD Radeon™ VII Drivers & Support | AMD 

Here are Radeon VII Previous AMD Driver to see if is an issue with the latest AMD Driver: AMD Radeon™ VII Previous Drivers | AMD 

[jdubs]

Well, Hello, and Thank You for your suggestions, and research.

MoBo's are always difficult for me to decide upon bc I generally don't use most of their advanced features, but I don't want to short-change on my build either. Plus, this pc is a splurge for me, as I've recently sold some valuable real-estate. I'm usually faithful to ASUS/ROG, but wanted to try some new manufacturers for this build. AFA picking the EVGA MoBo, past compatibility and stated performance, I mainly use reviews to choose components. This one had some very high marks, on several different sites. Plus I read several reviewers stating that this one runs the I9-9900k colder and more stable, second to its power delivery system. Strong selling point, imo.

That's a good catch on the Memory. Admittedly, I neglected to check the MoBo-RAM compatibility list on this build. Something tells me that is probably the root of my problem, and so will likely order some memory that is listed.

And yes-sir, all of the drivers that you have indicated have been installed, successfully, along with all of the others. MoBo BIOS has been flashed to current, as well.

The reason that I suspect the GPU, is that it is not presenting anywhere, by name, in my system hardware lists. But also, bc when I update my drivers through device manager (one at a time), everything will successfully update except the display adapter- which results in the freeze, the same as when trying to install Adrenalin. Also, if I scan for global hardware changes through Device Manager, it freezes, as well. I've also got a couple of R9-270x cards, from my prior build, that I can swap in to see if they initialize. I ran out of weekend last week, so was unable to try that yet.

I've gotten a few tips to try from a friend who is with IT at my work, as well. I'll troubleshoot it over the weekend, and let you guys know how it goes.

I Thank You, Very Kindly, for your assistance.

J

[elstaci]

Does sound like you have a defective Radeon VII.

Open an RMA Request with MSI and see it they believe it needs to be repaired or replaced.

[hardcoregames_]

looking down my pointed nose at that Rosewill PSU, I would retire that first. My Corsair AX860i can run your hardware easily.

check  your motherboard for an updated BIOS, EVGA is usually good at fixing problems fast

32GB RAM is excellent and the Radeon VII card needs 2 PCI Express cables. My AX860i comes with a boat load of cables for all occasions.

Your CPU is overkill but it should be adequate for a while

[jdubs]

Alright, so I have tried most of the suggestions above, with no success or improvement.

As advised, I ordered a new PSU, https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-prime-ultra-titanium-ssr-1000tr-1000w/p/N82E16817151195 and RAM that was listed as compatible on the MoBo. Went with https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16820232218 RAM. I'll rebuild with the new PSU this coming weekend. If the issue persists past that, I think it will be safe to say that it is the Radeon VII.

I will let you guys know in either case.

Thanks Very much for all of the advice!

[hardcoregames_]

seasonic is a well respected brand

I have not seen many dead Radeon VII cards so far and I am here daily to read posts if there is anything I need for my site etc

[jdubs]

OK guys, I finally got it working!

Spent most of Saturday night rebuilding (Cable Mgmt) 2nd to installing the new Seasonic PSU and MoBo manufx'r recommended Memory. While doing this and reading the Mobo manual just to 2x-3x check everything as I went, I happened to notice something else that may be relevant. The two SATA ports on the MoBo that I had my HDD and Optical Drive connected to, were of the ASMedia variety. So I moved those down to the Native SATA ports.

Reseated the Graphx Card very carefully and thoroughly (Leaving zero room for doubt as to its fidelity with the PCI-E slot, esp after securing with the screws). Stared at the Graphx Card very hard for a few minutes. Finished up the wirings, then booted up, logged into Windows, tried installing the GPU drivers... Same Old Freeze.. Reboot, drop into BIOS to 2x check everything was at default. It was.

Login to Win, again. On a whim, I decided to try the VBIOS One-Click Flash solution from AMD. Dialogue box appears, though imperceptibly fast. Rebooted. Tried the Device Manager, updating the Display Adapter, once again, only this time it does Not freeze. Scanned for hardware changes, no freeze.. Checked the MSI & AMD websites for the latest Adrenalin drivers. Scooped the one from AMD as it was different from the one that I got from MSI. Ran it w no hangs. 

Now Im sitting here discovering how cumbersome and bloated Win 10 is while setting all of my preferences while waiting on some games to download from Steam to take it for a test drive.

black_zion, Thank You for taking the time to take me to school on the PSU's. I was unaware that what I was using was likely insufficient, in one way or another.

elstaci, Thank You for reviewing my build and pointing out the Memory incompatibility. Also for the clarifications,  recommended troubleshooting steps, and stress-testing programs. I did end-up filing an RMA request with MSI after the first freeze after the rebuild on Saturday night. I might still send the card back just to have them check it for me, since the RMA is already intiated. Depends on its performance between now and when I hear back from MSI. 

Thank You everyone else who commented and clarified the importance of high-quality PSU's.

Kindest Regards,

J

[hardcoregames_]

nice to see you have ironed out your problems

windows 10 is the largest release yet but most of that is actually drivers

open a new thread if there are any game issues

[elstaci]

Seems like the vBIOS was what fixed the problem after replacing the PSU and Memory.

I don't have a Radeon VII so can you explain what you meant by "I decided to try the VBIOS One-Click Flash solution from AMD" . Is this a button on the Radeon VII that changes the vBIOS?

Glad to hear you got everything working without crashing. cross you fingers you don't have any more problems.

[jdubs]

That's kinda what I was thinking.

From the research I had done before posting my request for help here, I had read that the Radeon VII was released without any UEFI BIOS support and without a VBIOS installed (or something like that). So AMD released a "One-Click VBIOS Flash" solution, shortly after launching this card. I had already downloaded and tried to install it several times, without effect.

So, yeah it was either the RAM, PSU, VBIOS, or the version of Adrenalin that I had picked up from MSI. Or some change in-between all of that, that made the VBIOS Flash take.

At any rate, its all good now. I'm very happy with the build, and its powering through anything that I feed it. The GPU hasn't even broken 50*C yet, at higher resolution and under what was a moderate-heavy load on my prior build.

Kindest Regards,

J

[hardcoregames_]

I am surprised that cards lacking basic GOP support which is part of the Windows 10 WHQL standard and the UEFI BIOS secure boot etc

[unimagine0124]

Could you let me know what's the Vbios and adrenaline version that you used to successfully bootup ? Also the one click flash link or can you share it?

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@jdubs wrote:

That's kinda what I was thinking.

From the research I had done before posting my request for help here, I had read that the Radeon VII was released without any UEFI BIOS support and without a VBIOS installed (or something like that). So AMD released a "One-Click VBIOS Flash" solution, shortly after launching this card. I had already downloaded and tried to install it several times, without effect.

So, yeah it was either the RAM, PSU, VBIOS, or the version of Adrenalin that I had picked up from MSI. Or some change in-between all of that, that made the VBIOS Flash take.

At any rate, its all good now. I'm very happy with the build, and its powering through anything that I feed it. The GPU hasn't even broken 50*C yet, at higher resolution and under what was a moderate-heavy load on my prior build.

Kindest Regards,

J

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