General Discussions

[Anonymous]

When intel or nvidia try and fail at making CPU's and GPU's constantly and have super poor yields they try make a very expensive one but it fails so they disable a chunk of it and sell the failed i9 or titan or 2080ti as a i3 o i5 or a gtx 2060 super. But when samsung or hynix or micron fail at RAM.. they sell on their low spec low performance lower tiers and models of RAM dirt cheaply im guessing but Third party RAM vendors buy them all up for peanuts put IDENTICAL packaging/labels heatsinks and designs and marketing for the budget dirt poor low end failed to manufacture products and charge the same for them as top shelf flawless golden sample stuff.. How the hell is this legal? 

They should be forced to at least have some sort of coloured racing stripes down the side to differentiate the lower tier products from the higher tier.. how would you feel if you paid $5 difference for an intel i3 CPU to an intel i9 or i7 CPU but it has the same packaging and looked identical but there was a different serial number on the back of the product? 

and RAM vendors will say "its coz we cant afford to produce or sell or supply enough quality RAM to supply everyone with quality RAM.. so we sell cheap failure RAM at the same price as the good stuff to help lower the demand and ease the burden on the supply strain?" WTF this should be a crime? trident Z RGB, trident neo, xtreem ARGB, Corsair dominators and junk.. ask me if I want to punch these people? then i tried to buy some quality RAM online by looking for CL 14 and ebay people had CL14 mentioned in the ad description but CL18 turns up.. and they say "we mentioned the serial number of the part somewhere in the description" which had typo in it so when i googled the serial number i got nothing.. Thank goodness i paid via paypal and was able to post it back and get a refund. then spend fortunes to import the "correct one" from newegg or amazon instead of trying to buy locally. importing means more taxes than if i'd bought from a supply chain wholesaler to retail store here locally all the stores here said i'd have to import it as its not for sale in this country or something so the people selling it here were asking the same price as to import the B-die RAM for non bdie RAM that looked and sounded similar.

Also, USB type C can plug in any way up, why the heck cant RAM do that? if not couldnt you have markers on the RAM body and mainboard for which way up so people with poor eyesight who cant see into a dark computer case or black DIMM SLOT wont have to try eyeball where the middle divider is and try and guess which way around the RAM lines up better. Who can we talk to to make this happen?

Speaking of RAM and SCAM! well most of the laptops or all of them I've seen in australia will finally have some great fast and powerful AMD ryzen processors in the laptops but the laptop number of HDMI or USB ports the keyboard and screen quality or battery quality are cheap and nasty.. WORSE they severely limit and cripple and slow AMD computers by using ancient SODIMM LowPower DDR thats half bandwidth bus.. and so on.. with limited low mhz.. I'm guessing that if you were to use DDR4 desktop RAM sticks in a laptop it might shave a few minutes operation time but make the laptops perform much closer to a desktop PC.. I'm guessing hardware vendors are sabotaging AMD basically by pairing cheapest nastiest laptop low power fake SODIMM square RAM card garbage with their fast CPU's to make it seem like the intel laptops are somehow faster than they really are. Could we look into why this is?

Ads for laptops will say 8GB RAM but they wont mention if its garbage RAM or the mhz or SODIMM LPDDR or if its actual REAL RAM thats full bandwidth and full speed and supports high mhz RAM. is this misleading consumers or intentionally withholding product information?

[qwixt]

There are only a few memory manufacturing companies that produce the chips. I do not know how many. Just like LCD panels, the buyer must research to determine who produces the chip, if it matters personally. It would be nice if the manufacturer is clearly labeled. If you are looking for a particular memory manufacturer (micron/samsung/...) then you better pick the right brand (aka rebrand). The brand has its own standards for binning and grading. As far as memory speed and latency goes, it's always been clearly labeled and understood what I am getting.

DRAM is a lot more complex than usb-c, and it's wired into the component. As far as I am concerned, memory installation is already almost idiot proofed install with the groove or notched install. It's not really an issue.

If you want a desktop, get a desktop. As far as laptops go, the lower speed is to reduce power consumption. Plus, it costs less. The laptop market is highly competitive so shaving even $50 off the price pays off. Most consumers don't even know the difference between disk space and memory. They definitely do not know about RAM speed and AMD CPU's dependence on +3200mhz speed memory. So it's not a conspiracy. It's AMD's fault for creating CPU tied to bus speed which can be limited by slow memory.

Laptop manufacturers are going to try and produce the lowest cost laptop with the highest margin that sells.

On a personal note, I am so tired of how everything is a conspiracy in this day and age. Every "special" person has access to the internet then fantasizes about some conspiracy, which then connects to a few other "special" people that buy into it. Thus, a new conspiracy theory is born.

[Anonymous]

The same vendor like Gskill, will use the same companys RAM chip and controller.. but have wildy varying quality/speed performance and overclockability but they're all identical in appearance often even in CL timings and in MHZ like 3200mhz.. but one will overclock vastly higher or lower than the other.. And the latency/speed it operates at may be 12ns or different performance levels.. some of the worlds best quality samsung Bdie RAM is as low as 7.8ns but has CAS latency of 14. But if you configure it right you should be able to get it down to 8 or 9 or so where as other RAM will slow down or fail to perform at those latencies. Even the same Samsung Bdie chips of RAM from different RAM vendors will perform differently when its the exact same RAM from samsung. One vendor will have 9.8ns while another will have 7.8ns but they will charge the same??? why?

You can see the Samsung Bdie RAM are all priced sky high for any brand or stick of it.. but all other RAM not samsung Bdie is priced similarly when they perform vastly differently even if its the same hynix or the same micron RAM from the same brands with the same CL timings and same Mhz as the serial numbers on the back are different so while it may have CL18 its operating latency might be 13ns o something while another stick same mhz same CL timings maybe performs slower but costs the same or more depending on serial number you buy. Why? 

Check out Gskills trident Z RGB and its samsung Bdie RAM specs then check out their Gskill Trident NEO which has identically similar specs and performance CL14 and 7.8ns latency but looks lightly different on the heatsink/rgb and priced differently? Is it identical but made with smaller micron fabrication? whats going on? why are they priced so exactly similar like $5 difference when they're a different product?.

The problem is RYZEN CPU's only perform well with fast RAM. If you buy a high end ryzen chip and its got awful RAM it will perform like a ryzen 3 when you bought a ryzen 7 laptop for vastly more money and feel sluggish and delayed response like drunk.. The worse part of all is the power savings are maybe 5 mins difference battery life thats negligable for double the memory bus bandwidth and performance and bit depth and the increased voltages support overclocking or higher performance configurations. Anyway Terrifyingly awful is if you pay $100 for a cheap square slot of ancient garbage SODIMM LP DDR well for a real stick of actual DDR4 it costs like similary $100.. so its wayyy slower hardly any voltage differences and Its minimal battery life or temp impact cripples all AMD systems and basically it costs identical to a stick of REAL memory. they're probably just hardware vendors skimping a few dollars on DIMM slots and 'pathways' on the mainboard side of thing which is basically just the etchant on the PCB and the solder/mounting DIMM slot costs AFAIK? whoevers idea it was to do this for every AMD laptop on earth without clearly stating it or offering the option of selecting REAL RAM thats full speed and full power is asking for people to spam them with complaints.

[pokester]

I have used some cheaper Gskill memory myself with excellent results. And having done 3 machines and bought 18 sticks. I ran into 16 being SKhynix and 2 being Samsung B die. That being said they all use the same timings and XMP works exactly as it should on both but they do share the same part number. I too wish you could reference what you are really getting before buying but have not had an issue with the ram performing exactly as promised. Of he ram I bought all would overclock up one level with no issue. 4 of the SKhynix would actually OC'd 400 mhz. 

It is jut the silicon lottery. I am not angry they all don't clock the same because they all perform exactly as promised.

If you're not performing as it says on the package then you should return or RMA the ram. 

The only thing I had been concerned about was would having 2 samsung and 2 hynix in the same system cause a problem. As I have the each in their channels paired properly that has been zero issue too. 

All chip makers are going to move wafers down a rung if they don't validate at the level they are intended. They may end up on the scrap heap if that does not pan out. 

This is true for memory, cpu and gpu. As long as it works right at what they end up advertising it, it really should not be an issue.

I think back to my 3 core Phenom II that I was able to activate and have no issues with the 4th core. I got a free core out of them binning the chip down one rung. 

[Anonymous]

For me the samsung Bdie RAM goes all 8's and 21 but then it gets slowed down somehow.. i've got to find a way to get them to work somehow still boots and works fine but seems like somethings fighting to keep it slow or is it going 'too fast'? should be OK because the RAM is rated at 7.8ns tested confirmed as i've bought some of the fastest DDR4 RAM available to consumers on the market and it costs fortunes as its VERY FAST and worse still industry eats it all up like candy so theres none left for consumers. I'm actually quite amazed by how very fast my system became just by trying out a few RAM timings. 

I used typhoon burner freeware software to "report" a full listing for my RAM and got the refresh cycles meant for it from there? basically i set my RAM to 1866mhz and the XMP voltage then i adjust timings

CAS 9 9 9 9 TRAS 22 TRC31 S/L 4,5 S/L 2,7 TWR 10 TFAW 14, tCCD_L/S 5,5 TREF refresh cycles were 350 260 160

under the refresh cycles for me theres another CAS latency one that I set to min 9 which affects GPU audio latency interestingly lower. then uhh just Command Rate 1T and disable gear down mode.. 

umm enable P.B.O. ? theres a bunch of other settings but i basically just went like uhh the paired ones i did 6,6 for the next two pairs and the last pair i did 4,4 the TCK was 1??

i set lots of the min ones to 1 down near the bottom but maybe one of them was left at 2.

You'd have to experiment with your RAM. normally your refresh cycles would be what your DRAM timing info is listed by JEDEC in your bios menu.. so if it says 1866mhz you can try set it to whats listed there like 13 13 13 something and its listed refresh cycles and other settings. But I saw the samsung manufacturer set the refresh cycles listed in the typhoon burner read out so I just applied those .. previously it was like 327 something then 150.. its not too far off from the refresh cycles i'm using and the lower timing which is recommended by the RAM info listing is slower.. so I set it to the samsung manufacturer default maybe its from teamgroup? who knows works great. I suggest you find some settings you think good with your RAM.. gaming becomes entirely unbelievably better and different to the point where its a whole new experience. SOOO much smoother and faster

I've an asrock x570 steel legend.. at the time i purchased the cheaper x570 gaming boards with sound blaster xfi werent available on the market as yet to be developed and sold.. so uhh i dunno what board you've got but if you set your settings in secondary timings my old x470 asrock gaming k4 sounded incredible for the audio.. i was close to audio nirvana and bios tweaking heaven the audio it kept tricking me into looking around every few minutes with my headphones.. so I raced out and bought a new x570 asrock that cost a hundred and something more than the gaming versions.. thinking i'd be super amazing.. but the audio on it wasnt xfi.. i see my x470 board still speeds up great with RAM like this one.. and the x470 board is selling on ebay like $500AUD now sometimes.. probably the amazing audio and overclocking and stuff? asrock only hold a number of world records not as many as other brands in overclocking but i think they're fairly decent value.

[pokester]

If might would play with it more if I didn't have mixed type sticks in my machine right now all 4 work at the same advertised settings and that is fine by me. I am sure each set could likely do better but also not likely the same and that would be problematic. 

[Anonymous]

The reason intel CPU's arent tied to memory is they're like ancient terrible lousy CPU's that were dated primitive when first released 15 years ago and its the same CPU for the past 15 years.. which is essentially the same CPU for the last 30 years or more.. back when CPU's were huge simpler basic things RAM was lower latency due to simplicity and low mhz and low complexity.. the CPU's all had LOWEST IPC. compared to modern CPU's when "double data rate" RAM came out they just took the RAM and stacked on a second pass basically DDR 2 800mhz has like double the latency of SDR 400mhz or whatever like how DDR 4 has double the latency delay for 3200mhz than it does for 1600mhz.

Intel's CPU's are lousy you see the CPU cant function unless it gets the things from memory to work with.. So faster RAM should make CPU go faster.. the memory controller is built into the CPU.. and so having the CPU work faster with higher quality RAM means the CPU and design is far far better.. you could plug in zero latency 2million dollar mainboard testing RAM sticks and get maximum performance possible.. and using slow cheap RAM it'll still work just not as good. Intel's Ancient CPU design of being something like over 20 to 30 years old or more thats been tweaked and launched as a new product 15 years ago as the i7 series and has been around with its 16bit DOS and false 32bit memory curtains of windows 98 and windows xp at its core design going by the date it entered the market windows XP was the OS of choice and it sucks and has security vulnerabilities everywhere intel CPU's were dated and flawed from the get go but because their design is so basic and simplistic and ancient they probably could support DDR2 or SDR which is much lower latency. Basically imagine theres a machine to make cookies.. AMD CPU's can serve up a tray of cookies each minute filled with hundreds of cookies. But they can only do it with a big enough properly made tray of software to hold all the cookies else they dont fit on the tray and cant come out.. So instead of doing hundreds of cookies per tray and a few trays a minute AMD CPU serves up one or two cookies per tray but the same number of trays. Intel and nvidia insist on using limited software trays to only fit tiny 1 or 2 cookies per tray.. which means they can also do several trays perr minute then claim that their machine makes cookies as fast as AMD's does. Back when the tray was 16bit DOS things looked pretty similar and people couldnt tell the difference because they'd never seen an AMD computer that wasnt limited by software.

Its easy to think of it like uhh headphones if you buy generic headphones like sennheiser it sounds good even with an iphone basically.. but if you buy high end audiophile headphones the better the device you connect it to amplifiers and players even ones costing millions the better the device the absolutely better it sounds and the better it can sound the sky's the limit! The sennheiser that sound similar no matter what you plug them into are famous for being considered decent as they can be used with any device and sound quite good but the more stuff you plug them into they still sound alot like they do when using them with a lousy ipad or iphone even an android phone is better usually. But the better more expensive things you use them with they still sound same same with sennheiser.. thats whats wrong with intels CPU's they do a good job of of being cheap generic hardware thats limited but designed to cover up their flaws and make sound like high end audiophile or high end computer but arent they really arent.. they're ancient lousy technology. Sennheiser is a hundred year old loudspeaker company that made loudspeakers in the war. Basically sennheiser uses a cheap loudspeaker design and puts it onto your ears you can see this from their central voice coil technology in the speakers for the headphones and the way it has great vocals but not perfect for everything else and the voices sound like theyre talking into your ears and its great for EDM/video games but true quality headphones make it sound less in your head and less electronic music DJ dance party and reproduce what real life sounds like and will sound like they're in the room or in front of you.. you see intels CPU technology is probably more than 50 years old far more than that at its core.. the same thing for sennheiser headphones which isnt a bad thing. as long as they improve and modernize it its fine.. Look at hifiman headphones they're a type of headphone called planar magnetic which offers many benifits and had many popular headphone choices of planar magnetic headphones that were great quality back in the 60's and 70's but they had some serious flaws they were SUPER HEAVY bulky and large and uncomfortable and the good ones were very expensive. So now hifiman can take that old technology and reproduce it with modern materials like graphene or half hair thick diaphrams and light weight and higher efficiency so they dont need massive amplifier units to drive the large headphones, now we can use them with smart devices or other portable devices when they used to need huge amounts of power. Basically countries like china they study devices on the market all of them from 50 years ago to present then choose an existing older technology and revisit it.. Like from filament bulb to LED lightbulb. Which is great.. but the thing is lots of chinese companies will show people their designs and get billionaires to fund their design and construction to make a few multimillion dollar devices of the highest quality unique items.. then take the profits and designs and make a cheap mass producible item thats maybe 2/3 as good and costs a few hundred then sells to the masses. Like pioneer's andrew jones speaker packs. The problem is that intel and nvidia just grabbed like 50 year old CPU tech and didnt modernize it or change it in anyway they just kept selling 20 or 30 year old stuff exactly as it was 20 or 30 years before that.. do you understand the difference? Having newer more modern better technology and CPU design means that AMD CPU's can work with DDR 5 or DDR 6 in a few years when shrunk down further will see massive performance gains. intel CPU's are just trying to stick to the old SD RAM being quick and ancient CPU's with low cost low budget barebones things like Celerons with lower cache could overclock better as its the only benefit their 20 to 50 year old designs can offer them.