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BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

Well this is highly disappointing, especially considering this is the last of Socket AM4, with Zen 4 coming on a new socket. Would you buy a new motherboard just to support one generation of processors, when the next will come with such massive improvements like PCIe 5, DDR5, and USB4, especially since you just spent $300+ on an X370/X470 board a year or two? I sure as heck ain't, and I have a feeling quite a number of people will feel the same.

Per https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2020/05/07/the-exciting-future-of-amd-socket-am4  And AMD's official side:

154 Replies
pokester
MVP

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

Heck the chart isn't even correct. Looking at that 350 and 370 don't have 3xxx support and they most certainly do.

This is nothing but a lie born of laziness to do what is right and likely appeasing AIB partners that just want to sell more boards. 

It is very possible that higher core count processor in the new line could have issue on the older boards. Certainly however many of the new line could be compatible and it would be easy to support them by removing support for the older processor. You could even have a couple flavors of the bios to offer the different levels of support. 

Nobody would be upset had AMD not been the ones to promise this support to begin with. However since they did, many of us made purchasing decisions that would have been different had we had correct information.

Then acting as they are full-filling their commitment by having the B550 (still not even widely available and nearly a year since Ryzen 3xxx came out) be compatible what a joke. It better support it, it's a new upcoming board. 

This is beyond disappointing. 

Plus the title is irritating too. The exciting future of AM4. Not much of one as we now need a new board and it won't be supported by Ryzen 5xxxx either!

pokester
MVP

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

Something else I noticed in looking back at internet archives. AMDs statement in 2017 said support through 2020. Now they backtrack and say until 2020. Big difference! By a year and that is an eternity in this industry.

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elpuertorro
Adept III

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards



through 2020 = as the year goes through day by day they will support until the last day of 2020, so far they are on track. so not a lie or retrackting

until 2020 = until the last day of 2020, and if I'm not mistaken we are still in 2020 no? so then not a lie
So they have kept their word so far and launching the B550.

Did they ever say support for the CPU? Weird I could have sworn it was support until 2020 for THE AM4 Socket!
See the BIG difference.

Don't forget you can always go back and buy another cpu that gets a new socket on the board EVERY TIME the next gen cpu comes out


ps: That has been known for quite some time where have you been?

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deksman2
Adept II

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

AMD's explanation for 'too small ROM chip' doesn't hold ground.

Why?

Because X570 mobos also come with 16MB sized ROM (like most B350/X370, B450/X470).

Here's a detailed table comparing specs (and ROM chip sizes) between motherboards:

X570/X470/X370/B450/B350/A320 Motherboards (AM4-socket for AMD Ryzen CPUs) Comparison - Google Sheet... 

As you can see, plenty of B350/X370 and B450/X470 mobos come with both 16MB and 32MB ROM chips, and there are at least 3 X570 mobos that have 16MB ROM chips.

I sincerely doubt that microcode updates would require ridiculous amount of MB even on 16MB ROM chips.

For example, my Acer Helios 500 PH517-61 (Ryzen 2700 and Vega56) comes with a 16MB ROM chip on B450 mobo modified for a laptop, and the ROM chip is only filled to 47% of its capacity... however, Acer dropped support for this unit early on so I never got Zen 2 BIOS update (despite the fact that Acer UEFI bios UI is DOS style - fairly graphically primitive, but you don't need fancy graphics to showcase various options in the BIOS anyway) and the CPU (Ryzen 2700) is socketed (plus the cooling in this unit is really amazing... keeps both the CPU and GPU under maxed out load really cool and fans are quiet - no other laptop on the market approaches it in regards to cooling capacity).

A similar issue happened before Zen 2 shipped out.

Mobo OEM's were the ones who made an error and gave most mobos 16MB ROM chips... however, they discovered that by reducing the UEFI graphics, they could easily integrate Zen 2 microcode into the ROM.

Similarly, if they dropped BIOS UEFI to most basic graphical representation, they could probably put Zen 3 microcode into 16MB ROM chips as well.

But as it should be known by now, various B350 and X370 mobos received Zen 2 microcode updates from OEM's and users of those mobos are rocking Zen 2 CPU's easily without any performance or thermal issues.

I hope this preliminary report turns out wrong and AMD comes around, as it really makes no sense to force desktop users to upgrade their motherboards with Zen 3 (which is the last Zen iteration on AM4).

Basically, those who purchase B550 and X570 will be buying into 'end of life of AM4'.

Granted, Intel has been playing its customers for over a decade by effectively having them change motherboards with every new CPU generation... so AMD users have been very fortunate until now.

pokester
MVP

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

I can understand your wanting to defend a company many of us have loved supporting and will continue to support. It too love to support AMD and have my entire career, but you are inaccurate in your statements. 

I did my homework before opening my mouth.

First of check out the internet archive "archive_org" I found over 20 references of this commitment from various AMD employees and interviews with hardware sites and that was not even an exhaustive search. 

This one from this forum in May of 2019 for instance:

This is Erin Maiorino stating it would be supported THROUGH 2020 in May of 2019

 

"With the launch of the AM4 platform in 2016, we at AMD made a commitment to maintain and support socket AM4 through 2020."  

 

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2019/05/27/socket-am4-platform-longevity-getting-ryz...

This statement:

"Did they ever say support for the CPU? Weird I could have sworn it was support until 2020 for THE AM4 Socket!
See the BIG difference."

They not even said it they even published pictures stating it. I don't have to recall it I found it. 

Remember that that Ryzen 3XXX is not 3rd gen it is second. Ryzen 2XXX was zen+ and 3xxx is Zen 2, the first chips to use the upcoming third gen also are 7nm+ Zen 3 still not released.

This is AMD's roadmap slide from years ago and statement, also definitively, answering your question of the CPU's being claimed to be supported. 

This discussion form 2017 discussion with James Prior AMD Senior Product Manager who claims that AM4 would be compatible with future processors along with an AMD furnished roadmap picture supplied by AMD, showing Zen 3 being supported back in 2017

"AMD Confirms AM4 Socket Will Support Future Ryzen Processors Through 2020

AMD Socket AM4 represents the company’s future-proof platform targeting the fastest DDR4 memory, PCIe® 3.0, and NVMe technologies available, as well as the first native USB 3.1 Gen2 support on a chipset. With processor-direct SATA and USB connectivity, configurable for real-world flexibility, the AM4 platform takes advantage of the leading-edge features of today, and tomorrow."

AMD Zen Roadmap

This statement:

"So they have kept their word so far and launching the B550."

They made this commitment in 2016 speaking about the boards being released then. I would sure hope that a still unavailable B550 board would support the upcoming chip. 

 

This must be the most ill informed statement I have ever seen in regard to the history of AMD sockets.

"Don't forget you can always go back and buy another cpu that gets a new socket on the board EVERY TIME the next gen cpu comes out 

ps: That has been known for quite some time where have you been?"

AMD has a long history of supporting multiple generations of CPUs on the same socket so where have you been? Me I have been building AMD systems since they made 8086 chips back in 1979. So that is where I have been. 

In recent years AM2, AM2+, AM3 and AM3+ all supported multiple generations. Many AM2 boards even work with up to Phenom II processors, Heck AM3+ supported 6 generations not counting refreshes, of CPU's.

So no with AMD you have not NEEDED a NEW BOARD EVERY TIME, in fact extremely far from it. 

hardcoregames_
Big Boss

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

People here probably remember me squeaking over backwards compatibility. I have been aware that Ryzen 4000 will be available for my X570 but at the end of the day my existing R5 3600 is not hurting.

If anything I was hoping for a better graphics card.

pokester
MVP

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

Very good points! To save space you could even limit some features that most would not need to. They could find a way to easily support as much of the new lineup as possible and we all would realize there are some processors and boards this is not possible, but certainly far from the majority. 

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pokester
MVP

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

I would add something else I just thought of and why this is again a really bad decision for AMD. If Intel chooses to match AMD head on with CPU pricing this coming generation then AMD may give back some of that market share they took from Intel and here is why. AMD really doesn't have the future proof board on AM4 anymore, they blew that. Those going to Zen3 have to either buy a X570 if they don't have one, a B550 or future 6xx board. But they will only get one generation out of that board. While to buy the new gen of the Intel chip you also need a new board, they have promised to support the next gen on the same board. So for new purchasers Intel could very well end up being the cheaper choice. How's that for a role reversal!

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erroneus
Adept I

Re: BOMBSHELL: NO Ryzen 4000 Series "Zen 3" support for 300/400 series chipset motherboards

This is highly disappointing AMD and with moves like this, we might as well go with Intel next time. I got an high-end X470 board, which easily can run zen 3 cpu's and that I bought because it was promised to get support for Zen 3. I will not be buying a new motherboard to get a Zen 3 CPU and that seems to be the general take. So with this move you are going to sell lots less Zen 3 CPU's, as it would make much more sense for people to use the money on a better GPU, then a new motherboard.

 

You might be on top again, but if you think people will not leave you, when you start screwing them over, you underestimate your customers and Intel.