cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

General Discussions

AMD 3990X - Don't run it on Win 10 Pro, must use Pro Workstation, Enterprise (Anandtech)

I've looked at several of the 3990X reviews today, and Anandtech explains why, thanks to Microsoft, Windows 10 Pro Workstation or Enterprise (or Linux) is required: Processor limit. Granted pretty much everyone who will use this $4000 beast will be a Pro Workstation, Enterprise, or Linux user, but it may skew the results provided by other review sites.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

0 Likes
7 Replies

windows 10 pro supports up to 2 sockets after that you need windows server

my chassis has room for a dual socket board, but RAM costs can be brutal to buy 16 sticks of RAM at a go

0 Likes
leyvin
Miniboss

I'm confused... why exactly do you need Windows Pro for Workstation / Enterprise for Thread Ripper 3990X?

Threadripper 3990X is a 64-Core / 128-Thread Processor... this is, at least for the moment the Maximum number of Cores that Windows 10 presently supports as a Single CPU Package. 

As it stands Windows 10 supports up to 64 Cores per Processor Socket., and in fairness to Microsoft... since 2009., both Opteron and Xeon have had the largest Core Counts at 12 - 24; with Desktop being 4 - 10 Cores. 

This only changed in 2017 with Threadripper Introducing 12 - 16 Cores (Consumer) and Epyc Introducing 12 - 24 Cores (Enterprise).

Mind with this said, Microsoft hasn't updated their "Differences" Table between the Versions of Windows 10 since 2016., which since then they've dropped NUMA Support as a Requirement for Massively Multi-Core Processors. 

Useful, given AMD also has dropped NUMA Support outside of Epyc... likely because it was having serious issues with their Zen Architecture. 

It's part of the reason why Threadripper 3rd Gen is such a substantial improvement for Desktop (Gaming) than it's predecessors. 

Now it's likely that Microsoft originally wasn't expecting Core Counts to grow quite as fast as they have.

I mean keep in mind that the i9 Extreme Series only goes up to 18-Cores., while here we are with AMD mic dropping a 64-Core "Desktop" (Prosumer) Processor. 

Of course Epyc also only has 64-Cores at present... ("Only" heh, imagine saying that 5 years ago) and is likely not a limitation by the Zen 2 Architecture but more as a means to not alienate Microsoft., because any more Cores and Windows 10 simply wouldn't support / see the extra Cores; while Linux would.

I have no doubt that AMD over the next few years will be pressuring Microsoft to increase their support for Massively Multi-Core Processors... as while Ryzen 4th Gen is still going to be Zen 2, thus likely still 'cap' at 64-Cores, AMD will no doubt be looking to increase Zen 3 to potentially 96-Cores. 

(Remember their Roadmap has them aiming for a 128-Core CPU Design by 2024., which would be Zen 4 likely on 5nm)

AMD can (and to a degree does) support RDNA to be treated as a Multi-GPU ... but this is because they have complete control before it's interfaced with Direct3D / Vulkan., where-as for CPUs this would have to be done within the Chipset as the OS Requires "Low Level" Control. 

It means getting a CPU to behave as a Multi-Processor Part, is quite a bit more technically challenging; and said feature of RDNA that I'm talking about at present isn't Consumer / Developer Exposed; rather it's just part of the RDNA ISA, which likely is being used for Liquid VR or Open XR Support... it's a bit more niche in the need for such support by Developers as there are no Graphics Core limitations set by Microsoft, unlike for CPU.

I don't really see there being any real issues for Threadripper 3rd Gen on any version of Windows 10., at least for the moment... outside of maybe being limited to Windows 10 Pro an above., but then if you can afford a $4,000 CPU; I think you can afford the extra $70 to go from Home > Pro... assuming you're not already running such. 

Going from Pro > Pro Enterprise however is a much bigger leap in cost... and you'll find far less people are using such. 

Mind as it stands there aren't any Dual Socket Threadripper Motherboards., so I don't see that being an issue. 

At most the only real limitation you'll run into is the Memory Support; but then again you'd need a 2P / 4P Board in order to even Socket > 2TB Memory. 

(Largest Consumer RAM is 128GB Sticks., and 1P Boards have 8 DIMMS)

0 Likes

leyvin wrote:

 

(Largest Consumer RAM is 128GB Sticks., and 1P Boards have 8 DIMMS)

JEDEC DDR4 tops out at 16GB per DIMM, DDR5 is going to bump that up by adding 2 more memory sizes chips

right now 8 gigabit is all the DDR4 standard includes, 16 gigabit are now ready for DDR5 and 32 gigabit are a bit further out.

DDR5 MEMORY TRANSITION – HARDCORE GAMES™ 

I have 4x8GB and the that set me back $200 Canadian. 4x16GB was overkill in my option for gaming.

DDR5 will allow me to regard 4x32GB and eventually 4x64GB

0 Likes

Because of the scheduler. Pro separates the 128 threads into 2 processor groups (due to the 64 core limit) and treats them as two physical processors, whereas Pro Workstation and Enterprise treat it properly, which can have a major effect on program results. Still most people who would use this processor would likely be running Enterprise, both for security reasons and because of the much lower likelihood that updates will cause issues.

0 Likes

I posted this last year when I was updating some other posts

THREADRIPPER 3990X ISSUES – HARDCORE GAMES™ 

Recall with Windows last year that MSFT had revamped the kernel for faster task switching. The problem is that modern processors are cranking up the cores without considering the bottleneck problems.

Recall Amdahl's Law 

Amdahl's law - Wikipedia 

0 Likes

TomsHardware ran a new batch of tests on Win10 Enterprise to try and replicate Anandtech's results, and they couldn't. They surmised Anandtech was using a version of Windows which isn't completely up to date (1903 or 1909 with December's CU applied), which is entirely possible if they want to maintain a consistent test base.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-3990x-performance-windows-10-enterprise

0 Likes

The EPA sticks with the claim that your mileage may vary for reason. 1001 things could be different in the various tests.

I have worse problems than spinning my wheels with some CPU I cannot easily afford.

0 Likes