Log in to create and rate content, and to follow, bookmark, and share content with other members. Not a member? Join Now!

AnsweredAssumed Answered

Can AMD engineers determine if a AMD Processor or GPU has be Overclocked if sent in for RMA purposes?

Question asked by elstaci on Mar 27, 2019
Latest reply on Mar 29, 2019 by black_zion

Like • Show 1 Like1
Comment • 9

Many Users have mentioned that, even though, by overclocking your AMD Processor or GPU card voids the AMD Warranty that AMD wouldn't know it has been overclocked if the Users turned it in for RMA purposes. I suspect that AMD Engineers probably can tell if a Processor has been Overclocked. In the processor it could have a tiny file incorporated that shows whether it has been overclock or not. The GPU card may have something similar.

Many Users sometimes uses features/software that Overclock the processor or GPU card without realizing it will void the warranty. Many do it on purpose believing AMD has no way of knowing if they have overclocked AMD hardware.

From obvious physical damage from Overclocking, Can AMD Engineers determine if the Processor or GPU card was Overclock when sent in for RMA purposes?

No one else has this question

Outcomes

9 Replies

noodles59 Mar 28, 2019 5:33 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
I think nowadays the CPU/GPU internally logs max speed used hence no way to hide it.
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions
black_zion Mar 28, 2019 8:24 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Well yes and no. With all CPUs supporting Turbo frequencies there's no way for them to tell if you've run it over its rated speed, but their diagnostic boards tell the engineers which part of the chip is faulty, and from that they can tell if you've overvolted it past what the Turbo voltages are. GPUs have a much wider operational range and more safeguards in them, so unless you alter the BIOS or the voltage, they won't know.

Basically it comes down to "If it dies due to your stupidity, we won't replace it", but with overclocking having become standard practice and unofficially endorsed by AMD and the board partners for many years (AMD with unlocked multipliers, board partners with a suite of safeguards, features, and promotional material), as long as you don't use too much voltage, overheat it, or physically alter it, or your warranty will still be valid, especially since the number of things which can fail any are unrelated to voltages and speeds are so great.
2 people found this helpful
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
leyvin Mar 28, 2019 10:57 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
In Short... No, there is no way to either Physically or via Software determine if said Processor was Operating beyond it's established Parameters.

Sure, the Flash Memory does keep a log of the P-State Tables... but these do not contain any information on Voltage States be it Set or Achieved.
Remember that Voiding the Warranty REQUIRES that you're forcing the Processor to Operate outside of it's Operational Specifications...

Let's say for example that I was to "Overclock" (this isn't the right term for it, from a legal standpoint and I'll explain why in a moment) my RX 480 from it's "Stock" Boost of 1300MHz to 1320MHz OC … well would this count?
No.
Not because of how small the Overclock is., or that this is actually the Performance Mode for the Asus RX 480; but because I'm not changing the Voltage from it's stock 1150mV

Alright... so what if I was to Overclock to something much higher? Say... 1480MHz (which as a note, my Card can., and quite comfortably sits at most of the time).
Well again., no... because it will achieve this (sometimes) at 1150mV., all I'm doing is basically telling the GPU Drivers to tell the GPU is "Allow the Frequency to run up to 1480MHz" … but it'll still step in with IF Temperature > 95C (tMax) Then Throttle., or IF VoltageRequire > 1150mV (vMax) Then Throttle.

At no point is the GPU actually operating beyond Specification, thus is not actually being Overclocked.
All the Marketed / Packaging Frequencies provide is the GUARANTEED Base/Boost Operational Frequency for all Quality of Silicon... said Quality can vary quite dramatically, especially with GPUs.

As noted., my RX 480 will contently hit 1480MHz... while my friends RX 580 will simply not go above 1360MHz with effectively the same Cooling, Voltage, Power(max), etc.

Now it's not that we've not been able to coax (actually Overclock) it, to where it'll hit a higher frequency; but as noted here you're only actually Overclocking when you start making changes to the Specifications... the Frequency is not part of this unless to achieve that you MUST Overvolt (mV) or Overpower (mA).

Still as noted., there's no way for AMD to even effectively measure this... let alone tell if you'd engaged in such up to the failure of the part. Even if they opened it up to see burnt out elements., there' no way to prove that was done via Overclocking and not simply a Low-Quality Silicon that was good enough to pass initial QA but had a distinctly Reduced Lifespan.
There's also the fact that you can't really see specific details with Electron Microscopes necessary to actually view Transistors today... so yeah, there's that too. Like it's obvious when things are busted, just not the cause.

I mean imagine trying to determine the cause of a Car Crash a Mile away through Binoculars

< • >

Warranties are in-part there to protect you the Consumer from receiving a Broken / Damaged Product that doesn't survive the Guarantee Period. Yet they're also there to protect the Company as well, from the myriad of frivolous claims that people make in order to constantly get replacement (new) Hardware.

Something that Consumers try to do A LOT... if they think they can get something out of it.
If it's a popular Product that is often sold out., typically means it'll be unavailable from the Manufacturer as well; this can (and oft does) lead to being send a BETTER Replacement. There's a few people I know (although wouldn't call them friends, as their behaviour is scummy) that are quite adept at damaging goods enough to warrant replacement and look accidental / non-user inflicted; just to get something better than what they actually paid for.

Heck look at when the RX 500-Series replaced the RX 400-Series... the "Improvement" while still WELL within Warranty., was more than enough to see that occur more than a few times to basically get a Faster Card without paying for said replacement.

And when AMD doesn't exactly make "phat stacks" on each CPU/GPU Sold... ideally they don't want to be replacing unless absolutely necessary because it was an honest ASIC Failure.
2 people found this helpful
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
- elstaci @ leyvin on Mar 29, 2019 4:55 PM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  I understand the logic from all the comments.
  
  But isn't Warranty work considered to be a "negative" cash flow on the company's earnings? Another words, AMD is not getting any income from doing Warranty RMA's. They are using company time and equipment to replace or repair or troubleshoot a defective AMD Hardware.
  
  So, most companies, IMHO, will try to find reasonable reasons for voiding a Warranty.
  
  Most Ryzen Motherboards have PBO as a BIOS Feature, as an example. This is basically automatically allowing the Ryzen Processor to be overclocked past it "Safe Operating" limit parameter and allow it to go to its "Maximum Operating" limits parameters. PBO can be manually "enabled" by the User in BIOS. AMD says in its documentation that by "enabling" PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive) the User will "VOID" the AMD Warranty on the Processor.
  
  This also applies to Ryzen Master Program and any manual Overclocking of the GPU or Processor.
  
  So, If AMD explicitly says it will void the warranty of the GPU or Processor if it was Overclocked, I would believe they would have some accurate way of seeing if the GPU or Processor was operating past its "Safe Operating " limits.
  1 person found this helpful
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
  - black_zion @ elstaci on Mar 29, 2019 6:31 PM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    kingfish is probably the resident boffin on warranties, but there's a lot of things a company SAYS voids the warranty which actually don't, like those stickers which say "warranty void if removed", but which keep most people from doing stupid things, such as removing the video card cooler and cracking the GPU when they put on an aftermarket one.
    
    If you think about it though every company, after the first few months, has a stockpile of chips which turn into dust collectors once the next generation come out, so I'm sure they don't mind using them as warranty replacements, especially because they can be factored in somewhere on the tax sheets as a credit instead of a write down. GPUs are even better because if a fan on the cooler fails, they just replace the fan and they have another card to send as a warranty replacement refurb, or if the card fails they have a replacement cooler for a warranty replacement.
    3 people found this helpful
    Like • Show 1 Like1
    Actions
    - pokester @ black_zion on Mar 29, 2019 8:21 PM
      Mark Correct
      Correct Answer
      I agree with what you said here.
      
      I would add that most of the warranty will be voided statements are not really able to legally upheld. They are there to scare people into not doing stupid things like trying to work on something they don't understand and seek professional guidance. It also is a scare tactic in another way, as many people who read the warranty and choose to OC, and then have issues will think they are responsible and not try to warranty it with the OEM. Granted most people are not going to go to legal measures, but for instance with the AMD chips that are unlocked and AMD creates the software to OC it too, and they market this ability. Any lawyer would have a field day with this and easily prove that AMD would absolutely be liable. If they were not then then the chips would be locked and they would not be creating software to allow you to do it. Personally as long as you are not trying to OC beyond what you can do within supported voltage range specified in the white papers and staying within thermal limits and you are not using third party software or custom bios to do it, I can't see where AMD would have any legal reason to deny replacement on a chip within it's warranty period that fails.
      1 person found this helpful
      Like • Show 0 Likes0
      Actions
      - black_zion @ pokester on Mar 29, 2019 9:23 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Wasn't so long ago warranties on CPUs and GPUs were abysmally short, but a quick glance at Newegg shows Ryzen processors with a 3 year warranty and GPUs with a 2 year warranty (3 years with XFX), significantly longer than the 1 year it was not so long ago.
        
        But also have to think that AMD, Intel, nVidia, and their board partners want people to continue to buy their products, not a competitor, so unless the product has been obviously adulterated, likely it's going to be approved.
        
        ASUS and Sapphire notwithstanding, though both have gotten better.
        1 person found this helpful
        Like • Show 2 Likes2
        Actions
        pokester @ black_zion on Mar 29, 2019 10:27 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        EXACTLY, it would be incredibly self defeating to tick off your user base by denying warranties. It pretty much would guarantee the person goes elsewhere for their tech. Saphire support for me in the past was simply abysmal. They make good cards but don't stand behind them IMHO. XFX in my opinon also makes good cards and next to EVGA is the best support I have received but EVGA doesn't make AMD cards. I here people trash XFX but they always respond and have sent me adapters and cables and free fan replacement kits over the years no questions asked.
        Like • Show 0 Likes0
        Actions
        black_zion @ pokester on Mar 29, 2019 11:30 PM
        Mark Correct
        Correct Answer
        Same happened to me when my last XFX's fan failed, they just sent me a new (old) HSF assembly, presumably pulled from a returned card. But the manufacturer I choose usually boils down to price and noise level pretty much since AMD has weeded out all the garbage board partners (Abit and Gecube anyone?), and all of the custom editions pretty much being equal plus or minus. Sapphire usually seems to put the most effort into their cards, but as an AMD exclusive company without a motherboard line anymore, they have to, their RX 580 and Vega 64 cards earned praise across the reputable review sites, but they're also usually more expensive.
        1 person found this helpful
        Like • Show 1 Like1
        Actions

Can AMD engineers determine if a AMD Processor or GPU has be Overclocked if sent in for RMA purposes?

Outcomes

Related Content

Recommended Content