14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 8, 2018 4:24 PM by colesdav

    Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.

    colesdav

      I have been looking at Radeon Chill again, in Adrenalin 18.10.2, 18.10.1, 18.9.1  to see if anyhing has improved in Radeon Chill in the past 1.5 years to make it worth using on my GPU's at all.

      One of the more minor issues/problems I see in the past is I am unable to set FRTC independently of Chill Max.
      I did think I saw some comments related to ability to set FRTC independently of Chill Max in a previous Adrenalin Driver release earlier this year and I think I remember downloading, testing it quickly, and it did not work at the time.
      On the other hand ... I might have misread or misunderstood that. I have just looked at all the Adrenalin Driver release notes and I see no mention of Chill Max setting independent of FRTC.

       

      If anyone knows anything on the topic of recent changes to setting FRTC independent of Chill Max I would be interested to know.

       

      Anyhow. I start discussion regarding Fresh install of Adrenalin 18.10.2 Driver on Recent fresh install of Windows 10 64 bit on a brand new 2TB Seagate SSHD. Windows system and disk checks pass.

       

      I tested both CGSO and Overwatch. Both games BSOD. 100% hit rate so far.

       

      System Information:

      CPU = i7-4790K running with no overclock applied (all cores set to 4.1GHz).

      GPU1 = R9 Fury X Primary.

      GPU2. R9 Nano Secondary.
      Crossfire off. No OC on GPU Clck. Cant change HBM frequency. Standard R9 Fury X and Nano BIOSes.

      DDU and fresh install of Adrenalin 18.10.2. Driver.

      Asus Z97 Deluxe NFC + Wireless.

      Memory 32GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP.

      OS Windows 10 64 bit 18.03.

       

      Low cost Viewsonic VX2577 1080p Monitor used foir testing. FreeSync Range = 44-75Hz at 1080p, 44-60Hz at 4K.

       

      Problem description in Adrenalin 18.10.2.

       

      If I set FRTC in Global Setiings to 74.

      I turn on Chill in Global Settings on.

      I go to Game profile.

      I set Chill Min = 45, Chill max = 300.

      I turn FRTC off.
      I launch Game.

      The game launches and I set it to full screen mode.


      I see the following Frame rates.

      Move mouse rapidly, Frame rate limited to 74 FPS! That is great. Global FRTC value has been applied

      Character stationary I see FPS = 45 = Chill Min - as expected.
      Use WASD to move game character. I see Keyboard only Input FPS at higher values I expect to see by having Chill Max at 300 versus the lower values I would see if Chill max were 74.
      So that is better than I have seen before. That is an improvement versus previous behaviour I have seen with Chill and Global FRTC on my GPU's.

       

      Now, the next part is tricky - If I open Radeon Overlay and open the Chill Menu I sometimes get an instant BSOD

      In cases where I do not get an instant BSOD, after DDU and reinstall the driver...

      If I open the Radeon Overlay and adjust Chill Min down to 30 FPS and close the Radeon Overlay that works fine. I see 30FPS with no game input. I see really low FPS (~ 50) with WASD keuboard input, as expected. 
      If I open the Radeon Overlay and increase Chill Min that also works.

      If I open Radeon Overlay Chill Menuand adjust Chill Max I get the following message "FRTC has been adjusted to {the value of Chill Max}.
      If I close the Radeon Overlay and reopen it sometimes an FRTC TAB appears, sometimes it does not.
      If the FRTC TAB does appear and I adjust FRTC in the Overlay Menu I see no message regarding Chill Max but if I then look at the Chill Max values in the Radeon Overlay Menu I see that Chill max = the value I set for FRTC.
      All values in the Radeon Overlay  get synced to the adjusted FRTC = Chill max in the Adrenalin AMD Settings menu, including Global FRTC.

       

      Why is this a problem?

      Because I had Chill Max = 300 to get ~ useable high Keyboard only input FPS but... if that value of 300 is used to set the Frame Rate Limit then 300 >>> 75 Hz Freesync range of the monitor, so no FreeSync benefit.

       

      I will open an AMD Reporing form and another email support case.
      I will also post video link here showing the fact that Chill max and FRTC are set equal on my GPU if I try to set them both in Game Profile.
      I will also post video showing turn off Game profile FRTC and overlay behaviour and BSOD.

       

      Radeon Chill is still broken and not worth using on my AMD GPU's.
      Why can't I modify Global FRTC independently of Chill Max?
      Why the BSOD with Radeon Overlay Chill Menu?

       

      Bye.

        • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
          colesdav

          AMD Report Form Submitted:

           

          Thank you for submitting your report and your assistance in improving our drivers.

           

          • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
            colesdav

            Video showing BSOD: CSGO: Radeon Chill BSOD.R9 Fury X. Adrenalin 18.10.2. Global FRTC versus Chill Max. - YouTube
            Sorry I had to record it on Mobile Phone.
            In this case I had the following GPU's connected to the System.

             

             

            Primary R9 Fury X.

            Secondary R9 Nano,

            and via Mining adapters:
            R9 Fury X and R9 280x.

             

            I have tested again, removing the GPUs on the mining adapters leaving only the R9 Fury X Primary and R9 Nano Secondary.

             

            I also tested with single R9 Fury X.

             

             

            I did a DDU and clean Adrenalin 18.10.2 Driver install before each test.

            • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
              colesdav

              Someone told me that Radeon Overlay Chill Max was nottied on their RX Vega GPU with Adrenalin 18.9.1 so I tested it on my R9 Fury X and R9 Nano with Crossfire off. It is tied for my GPU. Sorry I had to use a desktop recorder to capture the Radeon Overlay and show what happens when I ALT Tab to Radeon Settings from CGSO. Radeon Adrenalin 18.9.1 Overlay Chill max syncs to Global FRTC & syncs to Radeon Settings. - YouTube

              • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                flanker35m

                Hi!

                 

                Just went through Adrenalin settings and it says Chill and FRTC are mutually exclusive, enabling and setting one will override the other. Maybe this could be your issue?

                2 of 2 people found this helpful
                  • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                    colesdav

                    Hi,

                     

                    Thank you for responding to my post. I marked your response as helpful & like because you at least show an interest and think about and investigated what I posted.

                     

                    Which GPU and which Adrenalin Driver are you using please? Do you have an RX Vega 56/64?

                    Are you able to set Global FRTC = 74  and then launch Chill with Local FRTC off but Chill_Min = 30 and Chill_Max = 300?

                    Assuming your game or application can run above 74 FPS with both Global FRTC off and Chill off.
                    What is the max FPS that you see?

                     

                    First of all, No setting change should cause a BSOD. I am aware of what it says in the GUI notes. They may well be incorrect and/or out of date. It would not be the first time if they are.

                     

                    Someone with an RX Vega 64 is claiming that Profile Chill_Max and FRTC settings are not tied in Radeon Overlay or AMD Settings any more. They claimed they can set FRTC independent of Chill_Max.
                    They are running Adrenalin 18.9.1 and reported no BSOD's yet . So I looked into it further.
                    I still see that Profile FRTC and Chill_Max are still tied versus their claim that they are not tied any more on their RX Vega GPU.
                    Having checked that, I then found a way to be able to run Chill but also have Global FRTC FPS value honored so the FPS does not go above the FreeSync range on my monitor.
                    As described I set Global FRTC, but then turn off FRTC in game Profile, and then Set Chill_min, and Chill_max, with Chill_max different value to Global FRTC, and then I launch the game.
                    That works.
                    I tested it on Adrenalin 18.10.1 and 18.10.2 ans they are very unstable.
                    I also tested it on Adrenalin 18.9.1 and it is more stable than 18.10.1 and 18.10.2 but it still crashes sometimes.

                    I hope this clarifies why I looked at this again.

                     

                    Secondly, If that that is the intended behavior, i.e. changing Chill_Max should change Global FRTC and changing Global FRTC should change Chill_Max, which is actually what I see happening and show in the desktop recoder videos of the Radeon Overlay,  then it needs fixed because it it causes problems for use with FreeSync Monitor.

                     

                    I have to use Global FRTC to prevent the FPS going higher than the top end of the monitor FreeSync range otherwise I get screen tearing.
                    In the way that Radeon Chill is implemented at the moment, Chill_Max does 2 things at once.

                     

                    1. It is used to set the FPS limit for mouse only input FPS. No matter how fast you move your mouse, the FPS will never go above Chill_Max.
                    2. Chill_Max is also used to 'scale' the effect of keyboard only input FPS versus Chill_Min. Something like this:
                    keyboard only input FPS = Chill_Min + K(Chill_Max - Chill_Min).


                    The value of K is fixed, currenly too low, and cannot be modified by the user, at least, not in the GUI or in AMD Settings.


                    AMD keep promoting Radeon Chill for example - here: https://gaming.radeon.com/en/radeonsoftware/adrenalin/chill/
                    And claim this:During peak gameplay, Radeon Chill works to deliver the full framerate potential of Radeon graphics.


                    It does not. Not at all. Turning Chill on absolutely hammers the keyboard only input FPS down so low to the point where it is ridiculous.
                    Or else, to maintain reasonable in game keyboard only input FPS by setting a high value for Chill_Min versus Chill_Max, and avoid going over top end of the FreeSync range then the power savings are negligible, and you may as well just use FRTC alone and turn off Chill.

                     

                    In a game like the Witcher 3 or Sniper Elite 4, where lots of stationary & relaxed gameplay but short burst of action:
                    -For whatever setting I try, the Keyboard only Input FPS delta is too low. This means good power saving when idle but poor in game keyboard only input  FPS performance even with setting {Chill_Min = 30  Chill_max =300} or {Chill_Min = 45  Chill_max =300} is really low versus having Chill off.


                    In a competitive FPS Shooter like CSGO:


                    - If I look at setting Chill up for higher FPS range such as Chill_Min = 160 Chill_Max = 200, the Keyboard only input FPS is reduced to ~ 175. The power saving difference is not much. I have to set  Chill_Min = 160 Chill_Max = 300 to get Keyboard only input FPS of 200. Chill_Max of 300 is higher than top end of any FreeSync Monitor I know of. Therefore, Over FreeSync Range = Screen Tearing.

                     

                    I think Hialgo Chill it is a great technology but the implementation of the technology as Radeon Chill, the lack of user control,  and the user Interface behviour,  needs some serious improvement in my opinion, based on what I see during testing / attempting to use it. It seems to me the implications of using Radeon Chill versus FreeSync range and FRTC have either been ignored or there is a bug.

                     

                    I would like to be able to set Chill up so it drops to Chill_min when no input. it rapidly shoots up to Chill_max with keyboard input, I am fine with mouse input behavior.

                     

                    One way to do that would be to have the ability to adjust the value of K in the equation FPS = Chill_Min + K(Chill_Max - Chill_Min).

                    I think the following changes in the way FRTC, Chill_Max, and Chill_Min are implemented at present could be changed as follows.


                    Assuming Single GPU.

                     

                    Leave Chill_min slider as it is.
                    Change "Chill Max" slider to set the value of "K" - call it "Keyboard FPS scaling" or whatever. Just make sure it has no relation to the position of the Chill Min slider. 
                    Use FRTC to set Chill Max when Chill is enabled.
                    Make sure that Both Global FRTC and the Chill Control Slider(s)  (Now with Chill Min and 'K') are available in the Radeon Overlay so you do not have to ALT TAB out from game to Radeon Settings, as that can also cause Game Crashing or BSODs at times.

                     

                    In want to be able to set Chill up so I can:
                    - Press a game movement control key on the keyboard and the FPS rises to Global FRTC value.
                    - I move the mouse and FPS rises to Global FRTC value.
                    - Idle - FPS drops to Chill_Min - preferably as low as the low end of the FreeSync range.

                     

                    That way I think you may find the power saving is just as good, but the the game play is better, versus what you can do in Chill today.
                    You might even find that more people actually use it.

                     

                    Some minor improvements to the allowed setting of the Chill Hotkey could help a bit to allow for user manual control of Chill.
                    Currenty if I want to change Chill Hot key from F11 to another function key or use a double key combination of Shift/Ctrl/Alt + (alphabet key).
                    Function Keys are too far from main gaming keys.
                    If I could use just one key to toggle Chill on or off, near the game control keys such as WASD keys, that could at least allow quick and easy manual control of Chill on/off.
                    However, having to manually switch Chill on or off to achieve power saving and acceptable FPS is distracting.

                     

                    Thanks.

                  • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                    colesdav

                    All of the previous examples, Crossfire off.
                    In this example I run CSGO with Crossfire on at 4K resolution and see what happens with Radeon Chill turned on.
                    With Chill min set to 30, the game runs at 70. The FPS seems to run at 2x Chill min value.
                    CSGO 4K Crossfire Radeon Chill. - YouTube

                    • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                      colesdav

                      OK, I will open yet another support request about this one first using this:

                      Online Service Request | AMD

                      Then I will add a few more videos regarding Chill Behavior to try to get the point across about why Chill needs fixed.

                      • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                        colesdav

                        Just so everyone can quickly see what it says in the Adrenalin GUI about Chill Max versus FRTC at the moment.

                         

                        Global Settings:

                         


                        Local Settings:

                         

                        So, according to those, If you have to set Chill Max = 300 to get useable/acceptable Keyboard Only Input FPS with Chill On, then FreeSync, a key AMD Selling Point, is useless, because your FPS will go above the FreeSync Range.

                        • Re: Radeon Chill. Adrenalin 18.10.2 BSODS when attempting to modify Chill Max independent of FRTC.
                          colesdav

                          Initially running Adrenalin 18.10.2.
                          I just saw a notification for 18.11.1
                          Looking at the Release Notes I see this:

                          Fixed Issues

                          • When using Radeon Overlay on system configurations with the latest Windows®10 October 2018 Update some users may experience intermittent instability or game crashes.

                           

                          Except I am actually running Windows 18.0.3 with Adrenalin 18.10.2 and those BSOD's with Radeon Overlay have been very frequent.

                           

                          I thought I would take a quick look so I selected Custom Upgrade - just to check what was going to get updated on my system.

                          I selected Clean Install.
                          Adrenalin 18.10.2 notified me that this would remove the existing driver and would require a reboot.
                          I selected "OK".
                          I went off to get a coffee. I come back.
                          I login. I check Device Manager to see what Driver is on my system, expecting to see MicroSoft Basic Display Adapter for both GPU's.
                          No. AMD settings 17.1.1 was installed.onto my system.
                          Then the AMD installer appeared, ran something, and the Driver was updated to 18.11.1 - just thought I would mention that that is not a Clean Install in my book.
                          Thanks for listening to my previous posts about that issue, that Microsoft is installing old AMD Drivers onto Windows 10 64bit, and that your installer is still bust.