7 Replies Latest reply on Oct 23, 2018 2:40 AM by ventzx

    Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read

    ventzx

      Hello everyone I need some advice about what to do. The following is what happened.

       

      Around June this year I experienced black screen flickers and after it would recover bad to desktop Intermittently it would either half crash or fully crash the system. A half crash is when it would go to a black screen then several seconds later it would return back to desktop except the bottom half of the screen will be missing and the computer would be delayed, for example if you move the mouse the cursor would move a bit stop a second later move again, it would have a huge delay to it. I then did some testing and discovered it was the GPU, I then sent the GPU to my retailer (Scan) which is based in the UK. They discovered the same issue and sent the card to Sapphire. This was in August, a month later I received a email from my retailer with the following message

       

      I am writing to inform you that unfortunately LN 76354 the 4GSapphire NITRO Rad RX 470  no longer available and unfortunately a replacement is not available. We have therefore calculated a refund for you based on the benefit you have had of the goods from the original date of purchase and this amounts to £79.67+vat. Please reply directly to this email at your earliest convenience so we can arrange for this refund to be actioned.

       

      I refused this offer as I would not even be able to get a card 50+ percent less powerful (RX560) for the amount they were offering me. I then contacted Sapphire using their ticket support system I asked them why and isn't the RX570 available as they are rebranded from the RX470. They told me to tell the retailer to send the card to Sapphire RMA center, but my retailer already did, unfortunately at this time I did not have the serial number of my card so they couldn't check. I passed the message on to my retailer, 1 week later I heard nothing back so I called up Scan and asked what exactly was going on with my RMA, they informed me that now Sapphire has told them that no issues were found with the card. I asked them how can this be you tested the card yourself and they said they don't know perhaps they bios flashed it.

       

      At this point I was already skeptical as how can a software fix a hardware problem that is like using planks of wood to cover up a hold in a dam, water is still going to spill out just more slowly. I then contacted Sapphire using their ticket system system again and they said I should wait and test the card again once I got it back. Another month later (last week) I received the card.

       

      On the first day I installed it updated to the latest drivers and ran the heaven benchmark for 4 hours, no issues at this time. Next day after using the computer for about 6 hours I was watching a game preview on youtube and the black screens would occur again, although now it would no longer fully or half crash the unresponsiveness is still there making the system unusable. I immediately made a recording that can be viewed here.

       

      www.dropbox.com/s/oqcikllwns1bzfz/black%20screens.mp4?dl=0 (running heaven benchmark and watching youtube)

      www.dropbox.com/s/v44puglv9uj2nw2/video%20only.mp4?dl=0 (watching youtube only, no heaven benchmark running) black screens still occur.

       

      In the first video while I was recording I was constantly moving the mouse to a circle which is what the background sound is and you can see there is a huge delay to the cursor. During the second video I just let the youtube video run with no benchmark and no mouse movement. I have shown this video to the retailer but due to the windows error that pops up on screen they think it is a software problem. That error is due to the huge unresponsiveness of the system when the black screens occur and I was trying to click on the heaven benchmark in the taskbar.

       

      The reason why I am certain it is a hardware problem is because of the following

       

      1. Tested on 2 different systems (one with a fresh install of windows 7)

      System one my system

      Sapphire nitro rx470 4 gb

      Desktop

      Windows 7 64 bit

      Adrenalin Edition 18.10.1 Optional

      Hw191d 1400x900 @60Hz dsub to HDMI adapter

      Asus x370 pro prime bios version 0807

      Ryzen 1700

      Evga p2 650w

      16 GB

       

      System 2

      Sapphire nitro rx470 4 gb

      Desktop

      Windows 7 64 bit (Fresh install)

      Adrenalin Edition 18.5.1

      Hw191d 1400x900 @60Hz dsub to HDMI adapter

      Asus P5b-deluxe bios version 1238

      Q6600

      Thermaltake smart RGB 500w

      6GB

       

      2.I am currently using the exact same system 1 (all same components) but with a different GPU (GTX650 which I got while the RX470 was on RMA) without any issues what so ever.

      3.I have noticed that sometimes there are huge temp changes for example while it is running the benchmark it would be at 70 degrees after the black screen it would then sometimes drop down to 63 and slowly start to rise again.

      4. I have also once had it not recover from a black screen but it went into a kinda of static grey screen (kinda like a TV without a signal but much greyer)

       

      Despite all this my retailer thinks the card is fine and is asking questions like have you updated to the latest drivers, they have not yet responded since Thursday after I gave them my response. What is even more confusing is how can they think nothing is wrong when they know Sapphire did not fix the card nor replace it and they themselves tested that the card was faulty. This was their diagnosis from before they sent the card to Sapphire (Intermittently crashing to black screen under heavy load). I also still don't know why I was even offered a partial refund first if there was no issues with the card.

       

      Hardware does not magically repair itself if it hasn't shown up then its either well hidden or it will appear sometime in the future. The black screens are not even the major problem the slow unresponsiveness makes the system completely unusable.

       

      Any advice about what to do next would be greatly appreciated, ideally if a AMD engineer can confirm in this thread that they have experienced such a problem and it is indeed a hardware fault then that would be fantastic as I can then link this thread to my retailer. I am currently having a uphill battle trying to convince them the card is still faulty. I have also since spoken to Sapphire using their ticket system and they said I need to RMA it again but my retailer is not convinced.

       

      I don't know what testing methodologies they have but even for myself it required 2 days and 6 hours of operation time before the fault occurred. If they literally plug the card in and come back 30 mins later they they will never discover the fault. The problem is mostly visual based and because it is intermittent it is hard to replicate. However something was definitely done to the card as now it no longer crashes, just becomes basically unusable.

       

      The card was brought 27 December 2016 and despite on Scans website it states warranty is 36 months, I believe Sapphire warranty is only for 2 years so I only have until end of December to sort this out.

       

      I am open to options I am even willing to pay to ship the card to a UK Sapphire representative if they are here for them to test the card themselves.

       

      I thank you all for taking your time in reading this long post.

       

      Kind Regards

        • Re: Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read
          elstaci

          In my Opinion, Sapphire has a terrible Warranty in Europe. Sapphire Warranty says you MUST take the GPU card to the retailer you purchased it from for Warranty work. If the GPU card is not fixable, the retailer suppose to give you a Pro Rata rate on the cost of the GPU.

           

          Maybe this Reddit Thread about Sapphire European Warranty might explain you situation better: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7xybyp/very_unhappy_with_sapphire_eu_rma_need_help/

           

          Copied from Reddit Thread from a comment from a User:

          edited 8 months ago

          You haven't been tricked. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

          They must repair or replace the card free of charge. Or they must give you a price reduction or full refund. This refund should allow you to replace the defective good with a similar good. Currently you used the card 1-2 years where the card has a life expentancy of about 4 years. This means that the card has served its purpose for part of the time you should be able to count on it.

          Now the reasoning is as follows: They cannot replace the card due to a shortage (unfortunately we are not able to check this). They seem to be unable to repair it (depends on the fault). Therefore they must refund you. However, as the card has already worked for a significant part of the term you bought the good for, they refund you partially.

          The idiotic part of the story is that due to price inflation you cannot use the refund to purchase a similar good. Also, we cannot check if they cannot repair the card (depends on the fault) and I assume that Sapphire should have more than enough cards for at least RMA seeing how many end up in miners hands.

          If I were you, I would start complaining as much as you can. Even though they followed the rules, the rules do not account for this absurd situation. They should at least come up with an alternative so you can actually have a GPU that fits your needs. Unfortunately, they are not obliged to do so. Perhaps there are similar cards (e.g. a RX 580 or a 1060?) in stock or with a reasonable delivery time?

          Nuance: The reseller is responsible for solving the issue for you. If they cannot get another GPU from Sapphire, then that road is impossible for them. However, you should NEVER accept store credit. You paid for the card with money, not store credit. If you want to take your business elsewhere due to their failure, then you should be allowed to do so. Unfortunately for the reseller, the A****** in this situation is Sapphire but they have to solve the situation.

           

           

          FROM SAPPHIRE WARRANTY:

          Annotation.png

           

           

           

          FROM SCAN in UK concerning Returns:

          VOLUNTARY CODE FOR THE RETURN OF GOODS BY YOU TO US

          This code only applies as between you and us if you are a consumer. This code is intended to promote good relations between you and us. The code is entirely voluntary and does not affect your statutory rights.

          IMPORTANTIn individual circumstances the provisions of the voluntary code may be more or less favourable to you than your statutory rights. You are free to withdraw from the operation of the code at any time and pursue your statutory rights. If you are in any doubt about your statutory rights you may wish to consult a solicitor or your local citizens advice bureau.

          THE CODEWe recognise that goods supplied by us to you may not meet your expectations. In our experience there are many reasons why that may happen. Examples of those reasons include a defect in the goods at the point of delivery to you, incompatibility with existing components within your system, poor installation or simply slower performance than you require.

          We are not able to establish why the goods have failed to meet your expectations without an opportunity of inspecting and testing the goods.

          In any case where the goods fail to meet your expectations we invite you to return them to us with an explanation of the problem.

          In any case where we agree that the problem has arisen because of a defect in the goods at the point of delivery to you:

          we will refund the cost of the goods to you if returned within 28 days of the date of delivery; in any other case we will replace the goods or provide you with a credit for the cost of the goods.

          In every case where you return goods upon the basis that there was a defect in the goods at the point of delivery to you we will inspect and test the goods.

          Insofar as it may be established that there was no defect in the goods at the point of delivery to you, we reserve the right to charge you £10 as a contribution towards the cost of inspecting and testing the goods.

          In any case where it is established that there was no defect in the goods at the point of delivery to you

          • we will nonetheless try to assist you in resolving the problem
          • depending upon the age and condition of the goods, we may be prepared to accept the return of the goods subject to a restocking charge and refund or credit the balance of the costs of the goods.
          • insofar as the age or condition of the goods is such that we are unable to accept their return, we will redeliver the goods to you. You agree to pay to us the reasonable cost of re-delivering the goods to you.
            • Re: Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read
              ventzx

              Thank you very much for the response Elstaci, but I'm still confused on what I should do. Do I keep complaining to Scan? They still have not responded to me, I feel they don't care at this point. Before all this their response was within a day.

                • Re: Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read
                  elstaci

                  Seems like this is between you and SCAN retailer. If you truly believe the GPU Card is bad, I would keep pursuing to see if SCAN will give you a better offer as far as a refund. This is under European Warranty laws and Sapphire Warranty terms and really am not at all familiar with it.

                   

                  (The EU Retailers seems to have most of the Warranty laws in their favor) Just my opinion.

                   

                  Since UK is still part of European Union, here is Guarantees and Returns for your country: Guarantees and returns - United Kingdom

                  Copied from Link:

                  Guarantees and returns – United Kingdom

                  Legal guarantee

                  How long is the legal guarantee for new and second-hand goods?

                  The duration is 6 years in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and 5 years in Scotland. This applies to new and second-hand goods.

                  If the product is defective, who is responsible for putting things right?

                  The seller, including purchases made on an Internet platform. In addition to this, the consumers can make claims against credit card and finance companies if the product is paid for by credit card (directly to the trader) or by finance arranged for this particular purchase. This applies to purchases of the goods of value between GBP 100 and GBP 30 000.

                  By when must the consumer notify the seller of a defect?

                  The consumer must act within a reasonable period of noticing the defect but there is no specific deadline other than the legal prescription period of 6 years (5 years in Scotland).

                  Who has to prove the presence/absence of a defect and how long do they have to do this?

                  The seller must prove that the item was not defective for the first 6 months after the delivery of the product ("reversal of burden of proof"). After this time the consumer must prove that it was defective.

                  Is there a third party testing body that can help to provide proof?

                  The consumer can ask any repair shop for an expert opinion, but they do not have to give one and their opinion might not be accepted by the seller. In the event of a court procedure, the judge may accept the consumer's expert's opinion or ask for an independent expert opinion. There is a limited number of bodies offering industry-specific expertise, but these reports can be costly to obtain with the consumers possibly needing to pay for the report upfront with a view towards it being reimbursed.

                  What remedies is the consumer entitled to free of charge? Is there a deadline for implementing the solution?

                  Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 consumers can argue short term right to reject the item, if the fault occurs within the initial 30 days from delivery date. This law also allows consumers to ask to reject the goods or ask for a price reduction after one failed attempt to resolve the problem through repair or replacement.

                  In practice, companies will at first offer to repair or replace the item. Consumers can insist on a different remedy if the one offered cannot be provided without causing the consumer significant inconvenience (consumer detriment) or when the remedy is considered disproportionate to the value of goods or impossible (trader detriment).

                  Any solution should be provided within a reasonable period of time.

                  Is the repaired/replaced product covered by a new guarantee?

                  No. The guarantee period is only extended by the time necessary for repair or replacement (subject to terms and conditions of the commercial guarantee).

                  Can the consumer take action against the importer or any intermediary in the supply chain up to and including the producer?

                  It is normally only possible to claim damages caused by a faulty or unsafe product, but not necessarily remedies under the legal guarantee.

                  If no amicable solution can be found, what is the deadline for taking the case to court?

                  The prescription period is normally 6 years (England, Wales, Northern Ireland) or 5 years (Scotland) from the delivery of the goods. This is unless the limitation period is suspended.

                  Are any other legal guarantees laid down in national law coexisting with the legal conformity guarantee?

                  Yes. Commercial guarantees given after 31 March 2003 are considered to be legally binding.

                   

                  I saw the video you posted on Dropbox. Did this intermittent blackout occurred after updating AMD Driver? 

                   

                  Have you tried to install a previous AMD Driver to see if it works better? faster?

                   

                  It is possible that either Sapphire gave you a refurbished or repaired GPU card after the retailer sent it to them. You can check the serial number of the GPU card that you purchased with the serial number of the GPU card you got back. But generally, if Sapphire did repair or gave you another refurbished GPU card, they should have informed you of that fact.

                   

                  I suspect as you do that Sapphire did do something to the GPU card since the original symptoms were fixed. No more Blackouts, am I correct? Now it is just extremely sluggish.

                   

                  I would open a new RMA Ticket for the GPU card you got back since now it is a different issue. SCAN believes the card you got back from Sapphire is good now so they are not interested in your opinion. Seems like now they are using the excuse the GPU card is good so that they wouldn't need to replace it or offer you any kind of refund. Just my personal opinion.

                   

                  If the Retailer tested you GPU card and said it was defective and even agreed to give you a partial refund, then, to me that indicates the GPU card was probably defective. If you have all that information in writing from Scan saying it was defective and agreed to offer you a partial refund, at least you have a hard copy of proof that the GPU card was bad.

                   

                  Did you try the returned GPU card in another computer with the same results - extremely sluggish?

                   

                  I really don't know how to advice you in this situation. I would contact European Consumer Centre and see if they can direct you to the proper agency for your situation in the UK. Even though the European Consumer Centre deals with product sold between two EU countries. They may still direct you on how to proceed.

                   

                  Here is the UK European Consumer Centre for your country. UK European Consumer Centre - Home

                   

                   

                  From the UK ECC LINK:

                  Annotation.png

                  Good luck. Just chalk this up as one bad experience . 

                    • Re: Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read
                      ventzx

                      The intermittent blackouts just occurred one day in June 2018 I did not update any drivers and my computer is set to not auto update.

                      On my Ryzen system I have installed the Adrenalin Edition 18.10.1 Optional and on the Q6600 I installed the previous version to that Adrenalin Edition 18.5.1

                      Both have the same problem.

                      The serial number is the same as the card I sent in. Most likely it was bios flashed as that would explain why the hard crashes no longer occur but the black screens and the unresponsiveness has stayed. I have it in the form of writing as emails when the retailer first tested the card before it was sent off to Sapphire.

                       

                      Thank you

                • Re: Sapphire RMA Nightmare AMD/Sapphire please read
                  hardcoregames™

                  sapphire closed their forum, and I am not sure what is going on with them anymore

                   

                  the few users there are now mostly here

                   

                  check on their website and see if you can get an RMA